'Fun With Language' Thread

goatpiper · Oct 27, 2005

So I was doing my work this morning, and the sentence "The slurring was more pronounced, now." jumped out of my pen. Hmmm...'pronounced slurring' - could it work? I find that stuff like this works...sometimes. I know it's out of context, but what do you think? My main character has quaffed five whiskys in relatively quick succession, and it's starting to go to his head, and I'm qualifying his speech to show this.

Btw, I was going to call this thread 'Oxymoronic Sentences', but then I thought it would be fun to have a thread where wacky language usage could be discussed. Don't know if it'll catch on, but it'd be a gas, imho.

Celia Cyanide · Oct 27, 2005

goatpiper said:
So I was doing my work this morning, and the sentence "The slurring was more pronounced, now." jumped out of my pen. Hmmm...'pronounced slurring' - could it work?

I'm not sure! I am no stranger to 5 whiskeys and slurring, but somehow I think that sentence doesn't really say what you want it to. I think it refers to the moment when you become very aware of the fact that you are drunk, and you are getting comfortable with it, and able to use it appropriately. When you speak, no matter what words you use, you are always saying, "Listen, I'm drunk! Great, innit!" It seems that what you really want to say is, the slurring was becoming more obvious, and the character was unable to hide it, which is a slightly different frame of mind.

Did I mention that I work in a nightclub?

Jamesaritchie · Oct 27, 2005

slurring

goatpiper said:
So I was doing my work this morning, and the sentence "The slurring was more pronounced, now." jumped out of my pen. Hmmm...'pronounced slurring' - could it work? I find that stuff like this works...sometimes. I know it's out of context, but what do you think? My main character has quaffed five whiskys in relatively quick succession, and it's starting to go to his head, and I'm qualifying his speech to show this.

Btw, I was going to call this thread 'Oxymoronic Sentences', but then I thought it would be fun to have a thread where wacky language usage could be discussed. Don't know if it'll catch on, but it'd be a gas, imho.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. You're using the word "pronounced" in the way it's meant to be used. As an adjective, "pronounced" means "stronger, more noticeable," as in "a pronounced flavor of cinnamon."

And "pronounced slurring" is a phrase I've seen more than once in police reports and court transcripts.

Celia Cyanide · Oct 27, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't see why it wouldn't work. You're using the word "pronounced" in the way it's meant to be used. As an adjective, "pronounced" means "stronger, more noticeable," as in "a pronounced flavor of cinnamon."

Probably correct, but I am just far pickier about how people will describe drunken behavior. Experts in a field will always pick nits when you're writing about their area of expertise, and I'm no exception.

NeuroFizz · Oct 27, 2005

Is the sentence coming from the narrator or from the POV character's internal dialogue? If the latter, would the word "pronounced" be one the character would normally use? With the narrator, there is a little more wiggle, unless you've established a rigid form of narration.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 27, 2005

Celia Cyanide said:
Probably correct, but I am just far pickier about how people will describe drunken behavior. Experts in a field will always pick nits when you're writing about their area of expertise, and I'm no exception.

I'm pretty picky myself, but I'm not sure how you can nitpick the correct use of language. "Pronounced slurring" is correct in every way, as language, as grammar, or as drunken behaviour. In court transcripts, it's used often by the experts. I mean, when the dictionary says it's correct, and when lawyers use it and judges allow it, and experts testify about it, what's to nitpick?

And from personal experience, I can tell you my slurring gets more pronounced as I continue to drink, and from being a small town cop for a time, that was one of the signs I looked for when trying to determine whether or not someone had had enough.

Greer · Oct 27, 2005

I bartended for many years, and one of the signs to cut somebody off listed in the employee packet was "pronounced slurring."

However, as Celia suggests, it may be the wrong word choice based on context.

Celia Cyanide · Oct 27, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I'm pretty picky myself, but I'm not sure how you can nitpick the correct use of language. "Pronounced slurring" is correct in every way, as language, as grammar, or as drunken behaviour.

That's a different kind of "expert." And what Greer said about context is true. And what NeuroFizz said about who is speaking.

"Pronounced slurring" is always correct. I'm not really arguing about grammar. But that phrase means something different to a police officer or a bartender choosing whom to cut off than it does to a drunk.

scarletpeaches · Oct 27, 2005

I'd be more worried about using 'was' and 'now' in the same sentence.

Sage · Oct 27, 2005

scarletpeaches said:
I'd be more worried about using 'was' and 'now' in the same sentence.

(Sorry for the tangent) But if your whole story is in the past tense, it's okay, isn't it? :Huh:

For example:
"Sue checked up on John at the bar. When she had gone out to dance, he had just begun to slur his words. The slurring was more pronounced now."

scarletpeaches · Oct 27, 2005

Was is past tense but now is present; I see this in a lot of novels and I'm sure there's a name for it (past imperfect, past perfect, something like that...) but it always grates on me. I want to tell the author to make up his or her mind - is this story being told as if it happened then, or as if it is happening now?

Sage · Oct 27, 2005

scarletpeaches said:
Was is past tense but now is present; I see this in a lot of novels and I'm sure there's a name for it (past imperfect, past perfect, something like that...) but it always grates on me. I want to tell the author to make up his or her mind - is this story being told as if it happened then, or as if it is happening now?

But to the character it is "now." It is happening to them at that particular moment, as opposed to what had happened to them before. Even when you are writing the story in the past tense. You wouldn't change the line to present tense to make up for the "now." So how would you express a difference between a reference to what happened earlier & what is currently happening to your characters. Btw, "currently" would suggest that it's present too. But what is current to your characters is current whether you, the author, are writing it in present tense or past tense.

Mistook · Oct 27, 2005

Greer said:
Sage is correct. Frequently one sees writers use "now" in the past tense to indicate the narrative is coming out of the past perfect ("deep past"). This is a totally acceptable (and even encouraged) way to do this without confusing the reader as to which "past" the narrative is in at the moment.

Yup. Past or present tense referrs to verb tense. Terms like 'now' or 'today' aren't verbs. No rule is being broken, and assuming we're always in a character's POV, any reference to a 'now' is taken as the character's now - same as the narrator can pose an unquoted question, and it's taken to be a paraphrase of character thought.

For the record:

Past Perfect: He had walked down the street.
Past Perfect Progressive: He had been walking down the street.
Past Simple: He walked down the street.
Past Progressive: He was walking down the street.

"He had walked down this street many times. He'd been walking this way the night of the murder. Now, he walked the block again searching for any clue."

Celia Cyanide · Oct 27, 2005

Sage said:
But to the character it is "now." It is happening to them at that particular moment, as opposed to what had happened to them before. Even when you are writing the story in the past tense.

Yeah, I think "now" sounds better than "at that moment," which is what you are trying to indicate, but takes too many words to explain.

The thing that annoys me is when they say "now" in the voice overs for movie trailers.

[Big Romantic Comedy]

"They met once and hated each other on sight! They swore they'd never speak to each other again!

NOW...they're handcuffed to each other, on a collison course to wackiness!"

This irritates me. If I ask you what a movie is about, you tell me in present tense, no? If you want to use past tense, well, I guess nothing is stopping you. But don't change tenses in the middle of the description. If you start off in past tense, and then you say, "NOW," and go into present tense, that implies that the past tense stuff was back story, in the past, and NOW you're telling me what the movie is about. But it isn't really that way. Everything described is in the movie, and I don't know how they decide what part of the movie is happening "NOW," and what already happened. I haven't seen the movie yet, so none of it has happened, from my POV! Pet Peeve of mine.

goatpiper · Oct 27, 2005

Wow...always cool to come home after a ten-hour day and see the way a discussion has evolved.
Glad to see how many people have chimed in.
I hope this can become a thread where we can discuss wacky and fun language usage. Three of my favorite authors are James Joyce, Neal Stephenson and Michael Chabon. All do really fantastic things with English (or did, in Joyce's case). If you have anything fun, get it up here and we can have fun tossing it around. Whatever it is...the cool sound of it, the wacky meaning of it...it it it it...I can hear the Knights-Who-Say-Nee wailing in pain.
I'm tired and silly. Talk to y'all on the morrow.

Aaron

Celia Cyanide · Oct 27, 2005

goatpiper said:
I'm tired and silly. Talk to y'all on the morrow.

So dude...when you wake up, are you going to tell us the context of the "pronounced slurring"?

jules · Oct 28, 2005

I'm personally intrigues by the idea of unpronounced slurring.

Got to get... anuvver drink, Mike slurred to himself.

Hmm.

scarletpeaches · Oct 28, 2005

I'm glad I write in the present tense now!

goatpiper · Oct 28, 2005

The context: my character is in a pub, drinking whisky, and talking to the bartender. The statement about the slurring is the narrator's, not the character's thought.

The prologue is written in present tense, and a couple of subsequent interludes will be written that way as well. It provides a cool break for my bad guy's POV. I do prefer past tense, though...why don't you use past tense at all, Scarletpeaches?

Celia Cyanide · Oct 28, 2005

goatpiper said:
The context: my character is in a pub, drinking whisky, and talking to the bartender. The statement about the slurring is the narrator's, not the character's thought.

In that case it's probably okay.

However, I do think there is a big difference between "pronounced slurring," and "pronouncing slurs," and if the statement is actually, "the slurring was more pronounced," it would be hard to tell the difference.

My feeling has always been that if it inspires that much debate, you're probably better off without it, regardless of how much fun that debate might be. Thanks for sharing, anyway.

goatpiper · Oct 28, 2005

I'll worry about whether I use it or not in another six months or so, when I'm revising it.
Let's debate some other fun language combo!
Or not. I'll come up with something ridiculous, if I need to...I'm warning you.

scarletpeaches · Oct 28, 2005

You know, I've never really thought about why I don't write in past tense. Years ago I was writing a story that jumped back and forward and I wrote the past in past tense and the present in present tense to distinguish between the two timescales. I eventually decided to write it in chronological order and kept it in present tense. Ever since then, that's the tense in which I've written. (POV third person limited).

Mistook · Oct 28, 2005

Again, just for the record, those same 'flavors' (or whatever you'd call them) of verb tense apply to present tense:

Present Perfect: She has driven three miles on a flat tire.
Present Perfect Progressive:She has been driving three miles on a flat tire.
Present Simple: She drives on a flat tire.
Present Progressive: She is driving on a flat tire.

I think most writers just understand these tenses instinctively, but it seems like some have better instincts for present tenses, and others have them for past tenses. Seems to me that's why a writer chooses one or the other.

And it's easy to understand where confusion can come in. If you look up at Present Perfect, the only difference between that and Past Perfect is in the "has/had" not in the word "driven"

"She had driven driven all night long." - sounds like quite a drive, I wonder if she slept afterward.

"She has driven all night long." - sounds like she just got in the door. I suppose she'll be crashing on the couch any minute now.

RubyRoo · Oct 29, 2005

Randomly on topic some oxymorons include....

Liquid Petroleum Gas
Microsoft Works
Government Organisation
Military Intelligence
Microsoft Excel
Recent History
Pretty Ugly
An Original Copy
A Random Order
Postal Service
Safety Hazard
Old News
Awfully Good
Seriously Funny
Virtual Reality
The Great Depression
Free Trade
Peacekeeper Missile
Peace Force
Light Tanks
Crash Landing
War Games
United Nations
Airline Food
Accordion Music
Unbelieveable trust
Civil War
New and Imrpoved
New Classic
Corporate Ethics
Compassionate Conservatism
Corporate Responsibility
Same Difference
Plastic Glasses
Bug-Free Software
Friendly Fire
Military Justice

jules · Oct 29, 2005

Liquid Petroleum Gas

Just a note for anyone actually using this phrase -- it is technically incorrect. It should be "Liquified Petroleum Gas", which is not an oxymoron.

'Fun With Language' Thread

Distraction Junkie

Joker Groupie

Joker Groupie

The grad students did it

Joker Groupie

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Neverending WIP

Joker Groupie

Distraction Junkie

Joker Groupie

Bored fanatic

Distraction Junkie

Joker Groupie

Distraction Junkie

Neverending WIP

The pretzel in an egg!

Bored fanatic