Where hath all the good fantasy gone?

Status
Not open for further replies.

dxarmbar06

Banned
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
What is up with so much bad fiction (and bad writing) on the shelves of Barnes and Noble nowadays?

I mean every time I go to a bookstore looking for a novel that’s going to leave me with that larger-than-life feeling of wanting to go summit a mountain and stab it with a butterknife or at the very least a new outlook on life, I’m met with a bunch of space marines that are all about the size of a refrigerator and seem to be written by X, my point being that I graduated the sixth grade in the sixth grade and now get flashbacks of Sister Patricia (my sixth grade teacher) every time I take a few steps toward the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section.

I read novels to enrich my soul, but it seems like most people read them for a break from real life, hence “escapist” literature. Dragon Lance novels do not enrich my soul, therefore I am inclined to use them as clay pigeons when I go shooting (really cool fluttery effect when a shotgun meets paper). I would have no problem with them existing if they didn’t take up space on the bookstore shelf for the good novels. I’m looking for long novels that I can do bicep curls with, written with literary eloquence that most people would dismiss as “prosey” (because most people are sixth graders according to the publishing industry I guess), and teach me something about the meaning of life that I didn’t already learn in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. I’m interested in things like Pychon’s “Gravity’s Rainbow,” William Gibson before he lost his touch, “The Worm Ouroboros” has absolutely blown me away, but all bookstore clerks do is take me to the Lord of the Rings section (right next to the Twilight section nowadays).

Another thing, Lord of the Rings. Why is everyone so hung up on Lord of the Rings? No one read Lord of the Rings before the movies, at least no one who didn’t also play Magic the Gathering and LARP in the woods with full costumes and foam swords. Instead of an epic unrivaled high fantasy novel it just feels too reeling like a Middle Earth thesaurus, I have a greater depiction of what it’s like crawling through bramble than why I shouldn’t just bury the damn ring and go home.

But, I digress. Am I frustrated? Perhaps a tad. Apparently it’s not enough that young readers have an entire section devoted solely to them that they have to absorb every other genre under the sun, makes me want to jump on their sandcastles at the beach and watch the tears stream down their faces while they tell me to pick on someone my own size. I’m just wondering who bought all the good novels off the shelves of Barnes and Noble because I’ll give whoever it was twice what they paid for them there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
Given that you apparently mock and dislike all science fiction and fantasy fans, readers, and authors (with the single exception of Eddison), I really wonder what you're doing in a forum for science fiction fantasy fans, readers, and authors asking for their aid.

Everyone's got their own preferences for what they like to read, but since you loathe us all so much, what exactly are we to do? If you hate fantasy, read another genre.
 

Euan H.

Unspeakable
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
530
Reaction score
106
Location
London
Website
euanharvey.com
I bought all the good books. I follow you, and I make sure you never have anything to read. I enjoy it, too. Damn, you've missed some good books, let me tell you!
 

dxarmbar06

Banned
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
I dislike rubbish (and children, but that's aside). Is the above an affirmation that all Fantasy is rubbish? I had thought not, and thought there was still hope, but if I must wade through shelves of cookie-cutter mundane writing just to get to the one decently written story that might be on the bottom shelf of Borders on a good day, then I really will find another genre. If it really is rubbish then all I want to know is what happened to it?

And YOU Euan H, I knew it! Curses!
 

Reservoir Angel

Angelic by name, fiendish by nature
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
6,257
Reaction score
453
Location
Jolly old England
At least your local bookshop HAS fantasy. The only fantasy books my nearest bookshop has in stock are Harry Potter, The Black Magician Trilogy and Game of Thrones series. Two of which I've read to exhaustion and one of which I both want to read and am following the TV series of, so...
 

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
17,771
Reaction score
7,760
Location
Near the gargoyles
Website
www.alessandrakelley.com
It's not all rubbish. But it is mostly rubbish. It has always been mostly rubbish. So has every other kind of writing there is. Visual art, too. We live with it for the good ten percent.

Sturgeon's Law, my friend, Sturgeon's Law.
 

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
18,604
Reaction score
8,039
Location
Under your couch
Wow. You managed to insult fantasy fans, the mentally challenged, nuns, children, Tracy Hickman, William Gibson, the fantasy writers on this board who have their books in stores and the employees of B&N all in a single post.

Impressive.

Just because you don't like things doesn't make them rubbish. I realize I sound very flip in this post. What I mean to say is that many of the folks here are published and have books sitting on those very shelves. It's okay to say you don't like something and are seeking another type of novel. It's not okay to tell them their books are rubbish.
 
Last edited:

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
17,771
Reaction score
7,760
Location
Near the gargoyles
Website
www.alessandrakelley.com
I'm sorry. Did I go too far invoking Sturgeon's Law? I didn't mean to say I agreed with dxarmbar06's assessments. I for one adore Tolkien -- the books, not the movies -- and appreciate many of the other writers dxarmbar06 cited. I do think there is a lot of mediocre work to plough through -- in any art form -- but that there are also still plenty of gems.
 

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
18,604
Reaction score
8,039
Location
Under your couch
I do think there is a lot of mediocre work to plough through -- in any art form -- but that there are also still plenty of gems.

That's a fair enough assessment. Not everything published will be superlative by the very definition. Far more things will fall into the average category than anything else.
 

Randman

Movie Nut
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
145
Reaction score
12
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Is it possible that the point trying to be made is that there is a lower level of acceptable writing to meet the masses in order to sell books versus a more difficult piece of prose? There are works that are 50-100 years old that I think fantastic that are now deemed by our education system today as being too difficult.

Not to take one side or the other, but many of the comments on some of the writings I have read in the SYW section is that the sentence is too complex, dumb it down and break it up; even though the sentence is technically correct. Don't get me wrong I am not one in favor of 50-70 word sentences, but there might be a need somewhere.

So is there a need for more in-depth reading versus text/prose that is written for a sixth-grader? Maybe there is. I would think that if it were a well written piece an agent and a publisher would jump on it and hopefully not dumb it down too much. I could be wrong, but I hope that they who have power do not destroy a well written piece of work.

I do see both sides and maybe the original post was not meant to bash, but offer a point of frustration others may feel as well. Because the forum is of writers who are also readers, some may take offense, but I see opportunity to discuss a point. A point that has two sides, maybe three in this case for those who only saw a post bashing writers.
icon12.gif


I think the best piece in the last year I have read was Drood by Dan Simmons. Adventurous, challenging and not at a sixth grade level. So there are some out there, maybe not as many as should be, or have been, but some do exist and make to the shelves.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
Okay, let's assume for a moment this isn't the latest episode of the recurring forum series "Let's troll fantasy fans."

First, Thomas Pynchon is still on the shelves at every Barnes & Noble I've been to lately. Just so you know.

Second, while obviously the movies boosted the popularity of Lord of the Rings enormously, the movies were made because Tolkien was already enormously popular and had been since decades before anyone played Magic: the Gathering or went LARPing in the woods with foam swords.

I share your opinion of Dragonlance, but so what? Great soul-enriching books did not fail to be published because some people like AD&D fanfic.

Your rant seems to be more "I hate that some people like books I don't like" than "There's no more good fantasy."
 

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
17,771
Reaction score
7,760
Location
Near the gargoyles
Website
www.alessandrakelley.com
The Lord of the Rings thing did seem kind of snarky. Like, whether you liked the books or not, care about imitations or derivatives or movies or whatever, there's something in that paragraph to set you off.

The thing is, I have friends who sometimes get this wound up and go off like this. I assumed it was like something they would say and was unwisely posted before a cooldown think-it-over period, not that it might be deliberate provocation.
 

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
My guess would be that you aren't really looking all that hard. *shrug* It's a lot easier to dismiss all fantasy as *rubbish* than it is to actually look for something new and different.
 

tjwriter

Emerging Anew
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
11,983
Reaction score
3,256
Location
Out of My Mind
Website
www.kidscoffeechaos.wordpress.com
Not everything you read is going to knock your socks off and leave you blown away. If it's entertaining, that's reasonably passable as well.

If you go through life expecting to blown away by every experience, you'll be sorely disappointed and likely bitter.

BTW, I stopped reading your lovely rant when you made the Down's Syndrom comment. Not cool.
 

MattW

Company Man
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
6,326
Reaction score
856
And here I thought 2011 was going to be a banner year for continuing fantasy series....

Erikson, Rothfuss, Bakker, Martin, Jordan/Sanderson, Abercrombie, and possibly even Lynch. And that's just the A list.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
Not really a polite way to say it, but I can sympathize with the frustration of knowing what you want, going to the store willing to lay down money on it, and it just isn't there. In my case I want videogames made for an audience of older teen and adult WOMEN, and fantasy romance novels that are NOT urban, NOR high fantasy, NOR gritty historical fantasy. Stuff you can't get for love or money, and probably couldn't sell to publishers or stores if you wrote it either.
 

Deleted member 42

Another thing, Lord of the Rings. Why is everyone so hung up on Lord of the Rings? No one read Lord of the Rings before the movies, at least no one who didn’t also play Magic the Gathering and LARP in the woods with full costumes and foam swords.

Dude, I'm fine with you not liking LOTR, but it has been translated into 42 languages. It has been continuously in print since it was first published, and it single-handedly created fantasy as a mass-market genre.

The English paperback edition of Fellowhip of the Ring had been reprinted more than twenty times before the movie aired. And we're talking print runs of 50K and over.

If you're a Pynchon fanatic, try William Gass.
 

bettielee

I'm a sparkly fairy princess!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
24,466
Reaction score
12,761
Location
Enchanted Forest and/or editing cave
Website
bettielee.wordpress.com
Another thing, Lord of the Rings. Why is everyone so hung up on Lord of the Rings? No one read Lord of the Rings before the movies, at least no one who didn’t also play Magic the Gathering and LARP in the woods with full costumes and foam swords. Instead of an epic unrivaled high fantasy novel it just feels too reeling like a Middle Earth thesaurus, I have a greater depiction of what it’s like crawling through bramble than why I shouldn’t just bury the damn ring and go home.

uh... no to this
 

Deleted member 42

I dislike rubbish (and children, but that's aside). Is the above an affirmation that all Fantasy is rubbish? I had thought not, and thought there was still hope, but if I must wade through shelves of cookie-cutter mundane writing just to get to the one decently written story that might be on the bottom shelf of Borders on a good day, then I really will find another genre. If it really is rubbish then all I want to know is what happened to it?

Perhaps you need to read more widely, and refrain from insulting people who write, publish, and edit fantasy?

Because you've just made yourself a lovely reputation on AW, with your fellow members who read, write, edit, agent and publish fantasy.

You have a nice day though now.
 

Polenth

Mushroom
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
5,018
Reaction score
736
Location
England
Website
www.polenthblake.com
I dislike rubbish (and children, but that's aside). Is the above an affirmation that all Fantasy is rubbish?

All the above is an affirmation of is that your post was designed to insult and upset as many people as possible. It was written to start an argument. You can't really tell people you think they all suck and expect it to turn into a productive discussion

If you wanted recommendations, it wasn't the way to ask for them. You still have time to rephrase if you did want recommendations. Try it without the insults.
 

megan_d

Falling in the milk
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
801
Reaction score
123
Location
Perth, Western Australia
It's ridiculous how much excellent sci fi and fantasy fiction is being published right now. If you'd rather spend your time writing insulting rants than finding it, well, then I just feel bad for you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.