Love Scenes?

Celia Cyanide · Oct 22, 2005

I was just working on a section of a novel, a scene between the main character and a minor one, and something unexpected has happened. I noticed that she wants to sleep with him. Since I am the author and all, I could probably stop her. Yet it occurs to me that he would probably want to sleep with her, too, and the only reason why I would not let her do it would be because I do not want to write a love scene.

I've never really written a love scene before, and I don't know if I'm comfortable with it, to be honest. To those of you who write/have written them, how do you decide if they are really "needed"? If they don't signify what the novel is really about (because, in this case, this book is not going to be about these two characters falling in love) how much detail do you feel you should to go into? Might it be better if I start a chapter from where the love scene would have just ended, so the reader would think, "Hey, what a minute! Did they just do it?"

This isn't another one of Celia's Stupid Questions [TM]. I really wanna know. I think maybe I'm a little concerned that someone might read it and think, "Of course she just had to throw a love scene in there," when, in fact, the opposite is true.

azbikergirl · Oct 22, 2005

Sometimes sexual tension creates good conflict. How long would they be willing to wait? If there aren't any opportunities for them until later, could that benefit your story?

I'm facing a similar dilemma in my WIP. The main story has nothing to do with romance, but there's a necessary subplot which does. For several reasons, I need to get two of my characters in bed together (thankfully, they are both willing!), but I'm not sure how explicit to make it. In my case, pulling the curtain wouldn't quite cut it, but I've never written anything so steamy before.

AdamH · Oct 22, 2005

Celia Cyanide said:
I was just working on a section of a novel, a scene between the main character and a minor one, and something unexpected has happened. I noticed that she wants to sleep with him. Since I am the author and all, I could probably stop her. Yet it occurs to me that he would probably want to sleep with her, too, and the only reason why I would not let her do it would be because I do not want to write a love scene.

I suppose it all depends on how pivotal and important this "meeting" is going to be in the story. If it's going to be a one-night-stand type thing then I probably wouldn't waste too much time on it. Maybe mention something in passing...them waking up the next day...stuff like that. If it's more than that (like if she does influence him to make a decision he wouldn't normally have made before he met her) then I'd probably include more details.

But, personally, I try to avoid writing love scenes if I can because I'm so horrible at writing them. So take that for what you will.

kristie911 · Oct 22, 2005

My advice...just go for it. Write it, walk away then come back and read it over. If it's too explicit you can edit. If it's not enough, keep going but you'll never know until you actually put it on paper. I've actually gotten compliments from my betas on my love scenes and I actually blushed as I wrote them! After a couple it just becomes like any other writing...

My coworkers actually find it disturbing that I can write a sex scene at work between answering phones! lol

Storyteller5 · Oct 22, 2005

I've read a lot of books where it doesn't go into great detail on that. For example, the chapter ends with them heading to bed and the next chapter starts with either them lying in bed afterwards or one of them leaving thinking about what they had done. I can't think of an example off hand, but I'll try to find a title I can post for you.

If you aren't comfortable writing the sexual details and it's not integral to your story, don't go into it. There are ways to indicate it happened.

emeraldcite · Oct 22, 2005

Ask yourself what you need from the scene.

If the implication of sex is all that's important, then work around the scene. Show the characters going off to bed, but not necessarily in bed (or couch, or loveseat, or washing machine...)

If something happens during the sex or because of it, the use it.

If it's part of the genre, then it should, by all means, be juicy.

But it comes back around to the question: what should the reader take away from this moment and how do I best demonstrate it?

inanna · Oct 22, 2005

I've had to cope with this stuff quite a bit lately (my love scenes at the moment feel pretty cringe-worthy) but I'll share some of the best advice I've run across so far.

The rules of thumb for sex scenes are very similar to those for dialogue in that a love scene should serve to advance the plot, reveal character, or illustrate a transformation taking place in one or both characters. Ideally, it should do more than one of these things simultaneously. (the exception is probably straight-up erotica)

There's a well known "test" for determining if your sex scene is gratuitous (I forget who to credit for it): if you can substitute "and then they had sex" for your love scene in your manuscript without taking anything away from the story, then there is a good chance your scene is more of a titillating filler than a legitimate scene that advances the plot. (not that there's anything wrong with titillating--I have yet to achieve even that

)

Sara Donati is an author who did a great series about this on her blog. She has them indexed if you want to check it out:

http://www.tiedtothetracks.com/storytelling

Celia Cyanide · Oct 23, 2005

Wow! You guys are awesome! That is very helpful! Thanks so much!

You brought up a lot of things I never would have thought of before. First of all, when I read, I notice that love scenes are only really interesting to me if they are very awkward, or uncomfortable. One thing I noticed when developing the male character was that when you look at him, he seems very suave and confident, but when you sit down and talk to him, he's a bit awkward. He doesn't make eye contact, he says strange things, and he doesn't really answer your questions. He knows a little more about what is going on than the main character does, so I think that if they became intimately involved, if only once, it actually could advance the plot, and reveal more about the characters. What he is like in that situation would probably reveal more about how weird he is, and how she reacts to it would reveal more about her.

As it now stands, he could probably take it or leave it, but she would not be willing to wait much longer. I noticed that another problem I would have with it would be that I would not feel comfortable writing them having casual, unprotected sex. I know that real people have that, but I am a firm believer in safe sex, and I would rather portray that as the right thing to do. Right now, she has no way to get condoms, or water soluble spermicidal lubricant. But he does. So if he gets a little more interested, maybe it will happen.

Thanks again, everyone for your advice. You're the best!

Sage · Oct 23, 2005

Yes, you should definitely decide whether it's going to add something to the story. Will the characters change due to this? Will it turn out to be important to the MC that they slept together? Will it make their relationship uncomfortable in other places, or will it turn out to be something that will come up again later in the story? I agree w/ pretty much everything that the others have said. And just remember that it doesn't have to be explicit.

Sadly I have written a love scene that I am very happy w/. It's not super-explicit, & when talked about later, it's euphenized (as another race has another way of describing sex). It is very important to the plot. Why am I worried about it, then? My novel's going to be a YA sci-fi/fantasy book, & I'm worried that I'm going to be told that there can't be any sex in it at all.

scarletpeaches · Oct 23, 2005

My love scenes make me cringe while I'm writing them but when I go back later, they don't seem too bad, and not as spicy as I at first thought. Distance calms the blood pressure and makes me more objective.

All those throbbing manhoods and blossoming flowers do take it out of me, though.

TeddyG · Oct 23, 2005

Celia Cyanide said:
I was just working on a section of a novel, a scene between the main character and a minor one, and something unexpected has happened. I noticed that she wants to sleep with him. Since I am the author and all, I could probably stop her. Yet it occurs to me that he would probably want to sleep with her, too, and the only reason why I would not let her do it would be because I do not want to write a love scene.

I've never really written a love scene before, and I don't know if I'm comfortable with it, to be honest. To those of you who write/have written them, how do you decide if they are really "needed"? If they don't signify what the novel is really about (because, in this case, this book is not going to be about these two characters falling in love) how much detail do you feel you should to go into? Might it be better if I start a chapter from where the love scene would have just ended, so the reader would think, "Hey, what a minute! Did they just do it?"

This isn't another one of Celia's Stupid Questions [TM]. I really wanna know. I think maybe I'm a little concerned that someone might read it and think, "Of course she just had to throw a love scene in there," when, in fact, the opposite is true.

Interesting questions .. interesting remarks and answers. So before I even say anything...well, you call it a love scene, and immediately everyone assumed that you were talking of an explicit sex scene...or am I mistaken?

I think a love scene is one animal, an explicit sex scene another animal.
Even if the protoganist does want to "sleep" with her and she with him.
And there is nothing wrong, actually if done correctly it increases tension by letting the reader think "did they just do it?"

If it is explicit sex scene..then to my mind, it should entice and arouse the reader. If it can do that, with the poetry of passion and sex then great. I don't know and am not an expert on the moving of the plot. Sometimes, plot's do not have to move at the speed of light. Sometimes it is great just to enjoy the moment.

If it is a love scene then the language of romance and love must go with it, which kind of demands a deeper involvement of the characters I think.

If it is a combo of both...with all the above...all I can say is Wow! Let me read it! :banana:

Teddy

henriette · Oct 23, 2005

i've found that it's sometimes sexier to read the scene leading up to the moment of truth and the scene afterwards, but the actual sex is left out of it.

has anyone seen the movie "closer"? the entire film is about sex, sexual power, adultery, obsession etc. but there is not one real sex scene in it. yet, the film is incredibly powerful and sexy, as it leaves the actual sex to the viewer's imagination.

one person's sexy is another person's icky, so i think i'm going to let my reader imagine the sexiest scene possible in their own minds. besides, i giggle every time i try to type the word "manhood"...

azbikergirl · Oct 23, 2005

WRT terminology, I dislike the 'manhood' and 'flower' business as well as the more crass words such as the synonyms for male chicken and cat. Proper terminology is just too clinical. Any suggestions?

Celia Cyanide · Oct 23, 2005

henriette said:
one person's sexy is another person's icky, so i think i'm going to let my reader imagine the sexiest scene possible in their own minds. besides, i giggle every time i try to type the word "manhood"...

Tee hee...do you prefer "tingly naughty parts"? Hahaha! That's the problem I have with it, too...the emphemisms make me laugh harder than the real words! Fanny Hill was supposed to be great because it didn't use one dirty word...well, yeah, but I thought it was a masterpiece of comedy! I didn't think it was possible for one novel to use the word "engorged" so many times!

I think that's the problem with eroticism in books. It's kind of like humor in the sense that you can tell it's supposed to be sexy, but if it's not to you, then it just sounds embarassing. Like comedy that doesn't make you laugh.

I think I will write the sex scene, and have it be really awkward, because this guy becomes more awkward the closer you get to him. Then the reader will understand that this isn't really supposed to be hot. And if it really doesn't work out at all, I can begin from the point of right after it happened.

Sage, I think that would also be interesting to see how this effects what goes on afterward between the two characters. And TeddyG, I agree with what you say about how "sometimes the plot does not have to move at the speed of light." Because not everything that happens in a story is directly related to the final outcome. Sometimes, it's about every little thing that happens along the way.

henriette, I haven't seen Closer, but will have to check it out. My background is in film more that literature, so that would probably be helpful.

henriette · Oct 23, 2005

fanny hill! haha- i took it out of the library in high school and was i ever confused. i remember the librarian looked at me funny but didn't say a word about it. she must have thought i was a dirty little girl, but what did i know?

celia, if your character is awkward, perhaps you could write just the dialogue in the scene and leave out the descriptions? it might be kind of funny like:

he: "mmm...do you like that?"

she: "OW!"

he: "sorry...are you ok?"

she: "yes, i'm ok..."

he:"i can't get this thing to come off..."

she: "here, let me do it!"

scarletpeaches · Oct 23, 2005

I'm safe, because the two manly heroes of my next novel suffer from floppy spam javelin syndrome, and premature custard chucking, so no love scenes there!

Oh hell, I apologise for my immaturity. It made me laugh and it makes me look like a primary school kid, but hey...I'll stay away from this thread in future and behave.

henriette · Oct 23, 2005

please don't behave scarlet!

inanna · Oct 23, 2005

henriette said:
has anyone seen the movie "closer"? the entire film is about sex, sexual power, adultery, obsession etc. but there is not one real sex scene in it. yet, the film is incredibly powerful and sexy, as it leaves the actual sex to the viewer's imagination.

I lovelovelove that movie. So well done. No sex scenes, but so unflinching in the way it addresses all those issues mentioned that I still felt like I needed a cigarette at the end. That scene in the strip club's lap dance room? Pitch perfect.

Celia, I think your angle for your character sounds terrific. Sex scenes don't need to advance the plot in a way where the characters have to solve the mystery or crack the da Vinci code in the middle of it, but like any scene, they need tension and conflict, a reason for the reader to keep reading other than just the sex act itself (explicit or not). I know a lot of people (though I'm not one of them) who skim or skip sex scenes altogether because they think they're boring and unnecessary. My only pet peeve is manhoods and love tunnels--as long as I dont run across any wacky euphemisms, I'm cool with it.

TeddyG · Oct 23, 2005

laughing at the antics...
But seriously though..maybe its a "female" thing at AW board...

There are ways to use the "crass" words and make them incredibly erotic and sexy.. and I am not talking about "manhood"! (is the opp. to that "femalehood"?)

Nature gave us our plumbing. If you look at it in a crass way it comes out crass. If you picture in your mind...mmm..lets see

Remember Male perspective follows..though I think I could do it in female perspective as well (no comments from the peanut gallery please!)

Saying something like .. "her nipples were hard and I grabbed her.." yep that is crass...
but there are a million and one ways to describe that...

The fingers upon the flesh...dancing with light fingertips softly caressing the underside of the breasts, feeling her breath begin to quicken and watching as her nipples hardened before the graze of his fingertips even reached the rings around them...

Now that is not edited and it needs help...but just as an idea...

Anyway...continue on those lines I would think..and it comes out erotic not crass...

I would try and give a more detailed example but I don't know what gets X rated here at the AW board! (and of course I want to remain an innocent newbie!)

Don't know if any of this helps...but...sex is poetic..it flows..it is passion and poetry and raw animal instincts...

Use that it will be beautiful...or else you can always have your characters rip each other's clothes off and just "do it"!

Teddy

(am i gonna get in trouble for this post?)

scarletpeaches · Oct 23, 2005

If you wanted to be romantic, you could say "They played trains and tunnels all night long. No sooner had she let him put his pee-pee in her cookie, than he began to play her body like a violin [see what I did there? Cliche makes sex better. Fact.] and she..."

You see what I mean. Booker Prize material, obviously.

TeddyG · Oct 23, 2005

scarletpeaches said:
If you wanted to be romantic, you could say "They played trains and tunnels all night long. No sooner had she let him put his pee-pee in her cookie, than he began to play her body like a violin [see what I did there? Cliche makes sex better. Fact.] and she..."

Okay now that you have me breathless...WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

kristie911 · Oct 23, 2005

Somehow I feel like we've taken a hard (no pun intended) right and landed in the gutter! lol

<still laughing at the phrase "trains and tunnels">

TeddyG · Oct 23, 2005

ears perk...someone say gutter????????

jackie106 · Oct 23, 2005

TeddyG said:
Okay now that you have me breathless...WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

He eats her cookie?

James D. Macdonald · Oct 23, 2005

First, the master answer: If it works, it's right.

Second, the obvious: You won't know if it works until you write it.

Third, the necessary: HapiSofi's post on Sex Scenes (if you haven't printed that one out and tacked it to your wall -- you should).

Love Scenes?

Joker Groupie

I really do look like this.

Pumped Up Kicks

Happy to be here

Say something...

Art is Resistance

Queen of Typos

Joker Groupie

Our Lady of Parentheticals

The Other Shoe Will Fall!

I really do look like this.

Joker Groupie

Queen of Typos

The Other Shoe Will Fall!

The Other Shoe Will Fall!

Happy to be here

The Other Shoe Will Fall!

Your Genial Uncle