Problem with a character

MarcMcClure · Mar 17, 2011

I don't want to bias those answering, so I'm going to be a little vague here, but I've reached chapter 9, and an elf is about to give my MC (Travis), who has shown some elven abilities, a nickname. The one that jumped to mind was "Travis Half Elf."

I'm wondering how many of you can find fault with this?

Thanks!

And WAY TO GO AW for the Gaelic welcome on St. Patrick's Day!

Polenth · Mar 17, 2011

It makes me think of Tanis Half-Elven (from Dragonlance).

canis.dirus · Mar 17, 2011

Hmmm I think it to be too close to Tanis Half Elven, the Dragonlance character.
My mind actually read it as such at first.

Mr Flibble · Mar 17, 2011

I think your elf can find a more original nickname for him.

MarcMcClure · Mar 17, 2011

Exactly!

Polenth said:
It makes me think of Tanis Half-Elven (from Dragonlance).

Without biasing you all, my problem was caught by the first responder.

So the question becomes, is this a problem? Enough of one to change the nickname?

This was not pre-planned. Travis was the character's name since the beginning, and I noticed I kept giving him characteristics of an elf, so in a story break, the elf jokingly wants to give him a nickname, and that's just what popped up. But I did read Dragonlance years ago, so it may either have been rattling around in my brain, or it may be a case of convergent evolution.

The dilemma remains the same: do I change the nickname? Opionions?

Polenth · Mar 17, 2011

MarcMcClure said:
The dilemma remains the same: do I change the nickname? Opionions?

I'd change it. Other than the resemblance, nicknames given as jokes tend to be silly and short. Travis Half Elf sounds rather serious.

For example, if I wanted to give an elf called Bob a nickname, I wouldn't call him Bob Elf. I'd call him Ears.

GregS · Mar 17, 2011

I absolutely think it is too close to Tannis.

Plus, as a lifelong gamer/fantasy guy, it comes across as insultingly lazy. "Half-elf" is such an established concept, and well-used idiom, that it has absolutely zero originality.

MarcMcClure · Mar 17, 2011

Ouch

GregS said:
I absolutely think it is too close to Tannis.

Plus, as a lifelong gamer/fantasy guy, it comes across as insultingly lazy. "Half-elf" is such an established concept, and well-used idiom, that it has absolutely zero originality.

I don't know if I'd go that far. You might as well go so far as to say there is no originality in writing a story full of elves, dwarves and trolls.

But I agree with IdiotsRUs ... the elf can come up with something more original. It seems Travis and Tanis are too close to make the 'half elf' comment, and I think it has no real importance in the rest of the story, at least as I have it mapped out right now. I'll work on something more original

AceTachyon · Mar 17, 2011

You mentioned he has elven abilities. What are those abilities? Dexterous? Call him Travis Nimblefingers. Runs fast? Travis Fleetfoot. Or Swifty.

Something along those lines.

MarcMcClure · Mar 17, 2011

AceTachyon said:
You mentioned he has elven abilities. What are those abilities? Dexterous? Call him Travis Nimblefingers. Runs fast? Travis Fleetfoot. Or Swifty.

Something along those lines.

Yeah, that's what my other options entailed ... more specific to the characteristics.

Blue236 · Mar 17, 2011

You could also use a characteristic that Travis such as his hair or eye color or something that he has a special connection with for his elf powers like a certain type of tree or an animal.

GregS · Mar 17, 2011

Marc: So, first off, I'm sorry, if that came across as insulting or aggressive. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

That said, there is no escaping the fact that the convention of meta-human characters replacing last names with generic, pre-existing labels is exceedingly stale. I really can't count how many times I've seen that done--especially around the realm of D&D fantasy.

To be sure, it was already clichéd when Hickman and Weis did it with Tannis back in the early eighties, and shelves are filled every day with more books and movies that have meta-human characters who use racial, equipment, or appearance adjectives for names.

And yours had the double-whammy of not only using that convention, but also sounding almost identical to another character that used it, too. So my intention was to encourage you to approach it from an original angle...but I was kind of an a-hole in the way I did it.

So, sorry again.

MarcMcClure · Mar 17, 2011

Not a problem ...

GregS said:
So my intention was to encourage you to approach it from an original angle...but I was kind of an a-hole in the way I did it.

Not so much a-hole ... don't be too apologetic. I just thought you were being a little agro ... like somehow I had offended your sense of how D&D or high fantasy should be written. I know some people get like that, and all I can say is, "Um ... we're all creating worlds here ... except those who write non-fiction ... so any suggestions should be just that ... suggestions."

Example: I know one girl who thinks all vampires should be evil, bloodsucking monsters, but there are a whole bunch of people who like cool, aloof, angelic vampires who happen to need to suck your blood (duh, Twilight). Both have their market, so both kinds of writers should be able to enjoy their writing.

GregS said:
That said, there is no escaping the fact that the convention of meta-human characters replacing last names with generic, pre-existing labels is exceedingly stale. I really can't count how many times I've seen that done--especially around the realm of D&D fantasy.

To be sure, it was already clichéd when Hickman and Weis did it with Tannis back in the early eighties, and shelves are filled every day with more books and movies that have meta-human characters who use racial, equipment, or appearance adjectives for names.

Given what I said above (i.e., take the following with a grain of salt), cliché or stale, there is a reason why characters and real people had/have surnames that are descriptions. When surnames came into use, they were merely descriptions of what that particular Tom, Dick or Harry was/did/looked like/etc. Hence the surnames Smith, Baker, Black, or even MacBrien and O'Brien (son and grandson of Brien, respectively).

My point: thank you for the suggestion ("yes, Travis Half Elf is too close to Tanis Half Elf, you should change it"), and as that is the consensus, I will be changing it, but I am not offended, you are not an a-hole, and we all like constructive, rather than destructive, criticism.

whistlelock · Mar 18, 2011

Half-Elf is too easy, too expected. Go out there. find something memorable.

true story: a friend of mine loves to bet on, well, just about anything. He bet on how long the national anthem would run for the super bowl. His nickname? Irish. He's Polish by descent, but we call him Irish because of the stereotype of the Irish being a gambling people.

And it should only make sense to the people who give it to him. So, find something better, something that will strike a cord with the reader.

Canotila · Mar 18, 2011

What if he uses a nickname that is a diminutive, that elves reserve for their own kind? Something like the elvish equivalent to kid/kiddo. That way it can be like an inside joke between them. If he wasn't acknowledging the character's elven traits, he wouldn't give him a name like that. But at the same time he isn't granting "full" elf status.

Tasmin21 · Mar 18, 2011

Canotila said:
What if he uses a nickname that is a diminutive, that elves reserve for their own kind? Something like the elvish equivalent to kid/kiddo. That way it can be like an inside joke between them. If he wasn't acknowledging the character's elven traits, he wouldn't give him a name like that. But at the same time he isn't granting "full" elf status.

All I can think of now is "And I will call him Mini-Me."

LBlankenship · Mar 18, 2011

Since nicknames tend to be shorter than the original, I'd think that "Travis" would shorten to something like "Rav". Which then links into "ram" or maybe "rave". Could go places from there.

Or maybe "Travis" shortens to "Vis"...

MarcMcClure · Mar 18, 2011

Great ideas! Thank you!

Canotila: great idea! That could be very useful ... I'll work on that!

BTW: Cute dog. Yours? or a net find?

Tasmin: Funny! But I think I can sufficiently veil Canotila's suggestion to ... ahm ... avoid confusion

Carla: thank you, too! That's not what I was going for in this nickname, but I think I'm going to try to roll your idea in with Canotila's and see what I get.

Again, thank you all!

Hallen · Mar 18, 2011

MarcMcClure said:
Canotila: great idea! That could be very useful ... I'll work on that!

BTW: Cute dog. Yours? or a net find?

Tasmin: Funny! But I think I can sufficiently veil Canotila's suggestion to ... ahm ... avoid confusion

Carla: thank you, too! That's not what I was going for in this nickname, but I think I'm going to try to roll your idea in with Canotila's and see what I get.

Again, thank you all!

Canotila and others have nailed it. What is the culture like for your elves? What kind of concepts would they use in their names? Do they have surnames or do they use a form of description for surnames -- ones that are only gained via notoriety, battle prowess, where they come from, or possibly by physical traits?

This is all up to you as the author, but also something that lends depth to your characters and their cultures. It's not something that takes a ton of explaining or backstory, but has a heavy impact on reader immersion (in my opinion).

Do your elves have a word for a lost waif or an orphan child? How about a word for a bastard child (it could either be a positive or negative thing -- bastard could mean a love child raised by the community, or it could mean one with no known father and therefore somewhat worthless).

Anyway, I hope you get the idea. Tie it to language and culture rather than race.

MarcMcClure · Mar 18, 2011

Yes! Thank you!

Hallen said:
Canotila and others have nailed it. What is the culture like for your elves?
<snip>
This is all up to you as the author
<snip>
a heavy impact on reader immersion (in my opinion).
<snip>
Do your elves have a word for ...
<snip>
Anyway, I hope you get the idea. Tie it to language and culture rather than race.

Yes, yes and more YES! After reading the comments from this morning, this was exactly what I concluded, and you've summed it up nicely. They have a language and a culture that I loosely developed prior to chapter 1, and whose details become more solid as necessary while I write. I think the necessity has again arisen.

Very good suggestions today ... yesterday wonderful advice, today great suggestions!

Thank you all!

BigWords · Mar 18, 2011

You can always use the "half-elf" as a shout-out to Spock and Doctor Who - "Half elf (/human, depending on context of answer) on my mother's side."

Canotila · Mar 18, 2011

Woo! I said something useful!

The dog is a Random Internet Dog, but he was too awesome to keep in obscurity. My dog is the needle nosed hound in my avatar.

glutton · Mar 19, 2011

I would've just assumed it was supposed to be a funny reference once I made the Tanis connection.

Reziac · Mar 19, 2011

Brain farts generated by these posts:

Elflet
Near-elf
'alf-an-elf (as in 'alf a dog is better than none)
elf-pup

Elf+diminutive as normally tacked onto names

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 20, 2011

For some reason I came up with "elf-bastard". Which I guess is longer, but how would he have gotten those powers? Obviously, he's an elf's bastard.

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