Talking animals in a middle grade novel

sunaynaprasad · Mar 9, 2011

I wrote a middle grade novel aimed for kids 10-14. There are two very unique and unusual elements: an orphaned protagonist who remembers her own parents deaths because she wasn't that young when they died, and talking animals who play big roles in the book and developing a close bond and friendship with the main character, who's a human. The movie, The Lion King is loved worldwide by people of all ages (including older children and tweens) and it is all talking animals. The description of my book is below.

Twelve-year-old Alyssa Norris has known nothing but a miserable life in an all-girls orphanage for five years… until she discovers that she had received the power to make animals talk. She gets invited by an animal from a zoo truck to escape to Africa, where a family awaits the adoption of an orphan. Alyssa agrees to come since she had a yearning desire for love. She leaves cold Canada and travels to warm Tanzania. Sadly, the family later leaves her and she is stuck with the zoo animals. They then tour around the exotic African land, facing lots of surprises.

So based on the word count (39,483) and the description above, would a publisher accept it and do you think it would sell?

Soccer Mom · Mar 9, 2011

Hi there and welcome back. I'm going to move this over to the "Writing for Kids" forum. I'm sure there are folks there who will be glad to talk about MG novels.

Amarie · Mar 9, 2011

Welcome!

It's really impossible to say if a story will appeal to publishers or not because it so very much depends on the writing. But before you get too far into this, you will need to decide if you are going to approach publishers directly (the ones who take unagented submissions) or try to find an agent. This thread explains the basics of the business: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586

Either way you go, you will need a good query letter and a polished manuscript. Check out this Share Your Work thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26
You can't start a new thread there asking advice about your own work until you have 50 posts, but it's good to read other people's attempts and the sticky threads to get some ideas. Spend some time exploring AW. You will find lots of great advice. Good luck!

Smish · Mar 9, 2011

There's no way any of us can tell you whether your novel will sell. We haven't read your novel, nor are we psychics (though I wish I was! Then I'd know if my novels will be a success.

).

However, there are a few problems. First, the target age for MG novels tends to be 8-12. Talking animal stories almost automatically end up at the lower end of that range (lower-MG). Second, talking animal stories are tougher to sell.

The Lion King isn't a good comparison to your novel. First of all, there's the obvious fact that it's a Disney movie, and Disney can get away with talking animals. Secondly, humans and animals don't speak to each other in The Lion King, as they do in your novel.

Now, that said, there are talking animals in some MG novels. Not many, but some. Kate DiCamillo and Neil Gaiman are both award-winning MG authors who include talking animals in their novels.

It's a tough sell, but it can be done.

MsJudy · Mar 9, 2011

Of course we can't say based on the little bit you've given us. Talking animals and orphans are not particularly unique for kids' lit. They can come across as cliché or as a fresh twist on a theme kids love. It's all in how you handle it.

The problem I do see right now with what you're presented is the lack of a plot. You start off with a strong set-up: Lonely girl is persuaded by animals to travel to another continent. That could be fun! But then things become random: the family leaves her (why would they do that?) and she wanders around Africa.

There are lots of good resources out there to help you focus your plot. Basically, your character needs a goal, and she needs to spend the bulk of the book trying to accomplish that goal.

sunaynaprasad · Mar 10, 2011

Why are books with talking animals harder to sell?

I always thought that putting talking animals in a middle grade book (for grades 5-8) would be a very good sell because they would bring back the childhood memories to older kids. My book is about a twelve-year-old orphaned girl (who was seven when her parents died) who's been living in misery at an orphanage. She then discovers that she received the power to make animals talk. That saying, she escapes to Africa in a zoo truck (but in the passenger seat with a man), and befriends the animals from the truck. The animals play big roles in the book and the girl develops a close bond and friendship with them. In some chapters, the girl is the only human character. Now back to the talking animals idea, I just recently discovered that talking animal stories are tougher to sell and that they would appeal more to younger children. However, my book has a lot of content to intense for kids 8-9 to be reading (like strong action and some death scenes). There's already the book, Charlotte's Web for them. This book is for kids too old for Charlotte's Web but too young for Animal Farm. Plus with a 12-year-old main character, they might feel that the book is too old for them; they'd rather read about a character 8 or 9 years old. So my book is basically aimed for middle school age children. Some of the elements like talking animals playing big roles tie within the book, Wild Magic, which was very popular, almost like a classic. I looked up the plot for that and parts of the descriptions sound similar to my book. But why would books with talking animals, especially for older kids, be harder to sell? I hope the extra information helps.

Smish · Mar 10, 2011

Merging the two threads.

Smish · Mar 10, 2011

I think talking animal stories are tougher to sell in upper-MG and YA because "they bring back the childhood memories to older kids", as you put it. Older kids don't want to read anything that seems childish, and sometimes talking animals in novels can seem childish.

That's not to say that it's childish in YOUR book. Nor is that to say that you'll have a particularly hard time selling your book. As we've said, there's no way for us to tell. There are books for older kids that have talking animals. Some of them sell very well.

Polenth · Mar 10, 2011

Talking animals are a hard sell, but not impossible. I think the key is demonstrating why the book is age appropriate. Your current descriptions wouldn't work for a query letter, because they make it sound like a Disney story: girl meets animal friends, has fun adventures. You'd want to make it clear it's for older readers from your plot descriptions. Show the death and danger.

clare · Mar 10, 2011

Sunayana, Plain Kate by Erin Bow is a good example of a recent novel with a talking cat. I'd say it is upper MG but because some of the content is very intense, some people may consider it YA. It is worth your time to read it, although it got mixed reviews here on the "talk about the kidlit you're reading" thread.

DavidBrett · Mar 10, 2011

Coraline was the last book with a talking cat I've read - and look how well that did!Plus there's the entire Astrosaurs and Cows in Action books for lower MG, so talking animals ARE possible, but you have to be careful not to get too cliched...

sunaynaprasad · Mar 10, 2011

If a Disney movie includes death, there's almost always just ONE character who dies. In my book, there are seven characters who die (although one is a family of three whose deaths you wouldn't see and another one is a woman whose death yo don't see). Two death scenes consist of two innocent characters; those scenes are intense and emmotional. The last death is the villian and his death is magically intense and a bit painful.

MsJudy · Mar 10, 2011

Talking animals are hard to sell for the same reason vampires and werewolves are: They've already been done. Which is not to say they won't continue to sell, because they tap into themes and ideas that readers really enjoy.

But they won't sell unless they are really, truly fresh and original and different. And well-done.

The fact that the main character can talk to animals is not enough, by itself, to sell the book. If the animal characters are unique and interesting, and the main character's quest is engaging, then your book starts looking more promising.

DavidBrett · Mar 10, 2011

Don't worry about the multiple character deaths - the Redwall books had tons! Especially at the hands of Cluny the Scourge! I'll never forget the part where he pushes an unfortunate minion off the cart, and it's gruesomely crushed under the wheels with him laughing all the while.

Inkblot · Mar 11, 2011

I'm wondering how an editor would react to this: the 12 year old girl leaving in a truck with a man. . . .

t0dd · Mar 12, 2011

In the middle grade fantasy novel I've written, one of the main characters (the second most important one) is a talking squirrel (a Eurasian red squirrel, to be precise). He serves as the confidant to the protagonist (a modern-day 12-year-old boy) after they get stranded together in the early medieval period; he's the only one whom the boy can talk to about his plight - with the complication that they have to meet in secret, since if anyone saw them talking - and especially saw the squirrel talking....

MsJudy · Mar 12, 2011

Inkblot said:
I'm wondering how an editor would react to this: the 12 year old girl leaving in a truck with a man. . . .

it would definitely raise questions. If the 12-year-old was part of a group of kids, there's no problem. SAVVY would be an example of that. And if the setting was clearly fantastical, otherworldly, or if the narrative voice was over-the-top goofy, then there's not really a problem with kids taking it seriously. But if the setting and tone are fairly straightforward, contemporary, realistic--then it's probably not going to fly.

clare · Mar 12, 2011

JudScotKev said:
it would definitely raise questions. If the 12-year-old was part of a group of kids, there's no problem. SAVVY would be an example of that. And if the setting was clearly fantastical, otherworldly, or if the narrative voice was over-the-top goofy, then there's not really a problem with kids taking it seriously. But if the setting and tone are fairly straightforward, contemporary, realistic--then it's probably not going to fly.

That was one of the things that drove me crazy about Savvy, actually.

suki · Mar 12, 2011

clare said:
Sunayana, Plain Kate by Erin Bow is a good example of a recent novel with a talking cat. I'd say it is upper MG but because some of the content is very intense, some people may consider it YA. It is worth your time to read it, although it got mixed reviews here on the "talk about the kidlit you're reading" thread.

I'd say Plain Kate is YA - it's definitely not 14+ YA, but it is, IMO, YA. It's being marketed as 7-12th grade, so it does pull at that lower end. But I do think the content pulls it into the younger end of YA, rather than upper MG.

Now, it does have a talking cat - but the plot point is not your typical animals can talk in this world plot. It's deliberate and an abnormality for the world. So, I'd say it's handled differently than your typical MG animals can talk world.

I agree with a lot of what's been said about talking animals being a harder, though not impossible, sell in the contemporary MG market. But the sunaynaprasad should try to determine the appropriate age range (10-14 really isn't on target - it would likely fit better as a book aimed at 8-10 year olds, than 11-14 year olds), and then make sure the content, language and structure is suitable for the target age range.

Then find some critique partners/beta readers/get 50 posts and post an excerpt in Share Your Work, and see where you are.

Lastly, when thinking about the market for your book, look at books published in the genre in the last 5-6 years - not classics. You'll need to know today's agents and editors are interested in such books.

Lastly, regardless of all of this, if you believe in the story, then all you can do is research the market, read similar books published in the last 5-6 years to see how they handle the subject, and then get critique and polish it and make it as marketable as you can, and then query it and see.

good luck.

~suki

Goldenleaves · Mar 12, 2011

Inkblot said:
I'm wondering how an editor would react to this: the 12 year old girl leaving in a truck with a man. . . .

I'd heard (I don't know) that such things are childrens book no no's, which is understandable. I was a bit concerned and took a few plot twists to avoid putting my character in that kind of vulnerable situation. Now I think that's improved the story. Better safe than sorry.

sunaynaprasad · Mar 12, 2011

"sunaynaprasad should try to determine the appropriate age range (10-14 really isn't on target - it would likely fit better as a book aimed at 8-10 year olds, than 11-14 year olds), and then make sure the content, language and structure is suitable for the target age range."

I did NOT write this book for third and fourth graders. Plus with all the intense, emotional, and suspenseful content, and the 12-year-old MC (who turns 13 at the end, sorry to be a bit of a spoiler), it may not be suitable for nor may it interest 8-9 year olds; especially with a 7th-grade age main character. I really can't make it friendly for the younger MG side. All this intensity, death scenes, action, strong emotional moments, and some mild violence are just TOO important to the story and are part of it. I'd prefer that 11-13-year-olds buy it as I did write for older kids. Plus by reading descriptions of Tamora Pierce's Wild Magic, many of it's elements were similar to my book AND it was a very popular book.

crunchyblanket · Mar 12, 2011

I don't know if it's the same thing exactly but what about Watership Down? It's a kid's book, probably aimed at older kids although I'm not entirely sure of the target demographic, if it exists at all. Anyway, although humans + animals don't communicate, the animals are anthropomorphic and 'speak' to one another.

suki · Mar 12, 2011

sunaynaprasad said:
"sunaynaprasad should try to determine the appropriate age range (10-14 really isn't on target - it would likely fit better as a book aimed at 8-10 year olds, than 11-14 year olds), and then make sure the content, language and structure is suitable for the target age range."

I did NOT write this book for third and fourth graders. Plus with all the intense, emotional, and suspenseful content, and the 12-year-old MC (who turns 13 at the end, sorry to be a bit of a spoiler), it may not be suitable for nor may it interest 8-9 year olds; especially with a 7th-grade age main character. I really can't make it friendly for the younger MG side. All this intensity, death scenes, action, strong emotional moments, and some mild violence are just TOO important to the story and are part of it. I'd prefer that 11-13-year-olds buy it as I did write for older kids. Plus by reading descriptions of Tamora Pierce's Wild Magic, many of it's elements were similar to my book AND it was a very popular book.

Of course, it's your book. But do consider researching the market - reading similar books published in the last 5-6 years and see where it fits (ie, how those books were marketed). I was only suggesting that talking animals will be a harder sell the older the target audience.

Good luck with it!

~suki

Polenth · Mar 12, 2011

sunaynaprasad said:
I did NOT write this book for third and fourth graders. Plus with all the intense, emotional, and suspenseful content, and the 12-year-old MC (who turns 13 at the end, sorry to be a bit of a spoiler), it may not be suitable for nor may it interest 8-9 year olds; especially with a 7th-grade age main character.

Children usually read up - they read about characters a bit older than them. You might also be surprised at how violent books for younger readers can be. The owls of Ga'Hoole books are rather violent, and I've seen those recommended for 8-9 and up. (If you haven't, you might want to read those books to see what I mean).

But there's a limit to what anyone can say without reading the story. Once you hit 50 posts, you can post the beginning in Share Your Work for detailed feedback.

crunchyblanket said:
I don't know if it's the same thing exactly but what about Watership Down? It's a kid's book, probably aimed at older kids although I'm not entirely sure of the target demographic, if it exists at all.

It's aimed at adult readers, not children. But it makes a good example from the point of view of plot description writing, because you can make it sound like it's for young children with the wrong description: "a group of rabbits go on an adventure to find a new warren". Which overlooks the rabbits ripping each other to shreds side of the story.

Smish · Mar 12, 2011

sunaynaprasad said:
"sunaynaprasad should try to determine the appropriate age range (10-14 really isn't on target - it would likely fit better as a book aimed at 8-10 year olds, than 11-14 year olds), and then make sure the content, language and structure is suitable for the target age range."

I did NOT write this book for third and fourth graders. Plus with all the intense, emotional, and suspenseful content, and the 12-year-old MC (who turns 13 at the end, sorry to be a bit of a spoiler), it may not be suitable for nor may it interest 8-9 year olds; especially with a 7th-grade age main character. I really can't make it friendly for the younger MG side. All this intensity, death scenes, action, strong emotional moments, and some mild violence are just TOO important to the story and are part of it. I'd prefer that 11-13-year-olds buy it as I did write for older kids. Plus by reading descriptions of Tamora Pierce's Wild Magic, many of it's elements were similar to my book AND it was a very popular book.

Suki (and others) are only suggesting you research the market, if you have not done so, so you will know exactly where your novel fits. You asked in your original post whether we thought your novel would appeal to publishers. We can't answer that. The only way to know is to actually start querying agents (or publishers, if you don't wish to work with an agent). But there are some ways to improve your odds of success, and knowing and understanding the children's market is right at the top.

Talking animals in a middle grade novel

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