Writing Dialog

Status
Not open for further replies.

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
Please share some of your methods for writing dialog. Where do you get it, and how do you know when you've done it well? In writing classes and books about writing, the attitude seems to be that some people are good at it, and others not so good. But there has to be a way to learn. What do you think?
 

Fishmonkey

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
67
Reaction score
9
Location
New Jersey
Website
www.ekaterinasedia.com
The key to writing good dialog is to make it sound natural, without being anything like real dialog. When most people talk, it often sounds like this:

"Let's get some lunch."
"What?"
"Lunch! Do you want lunch?"
"Uhhhh, okay. What do you feel like?"
"I dunno. What do you feel like?"
"Why don't you chose."
"What?"

In fiction, you want to avoid meaningless exchanges. I don't think that every conversation should further the plot, but even banter should reveal character, give reader clues about the folks talking, the dynamics between them. Is character A fearful and tongue-tied when character B is around? Does character C have a penchant for nasty jokes but tries to dissolve them by saying 'I'm just kidding?' You want every character to have a voice of their own, and this voice should be consistent with their personality. For example, a meek character can have halting, hesitant speech, etc.

I'm sorry of this is more of a description than a how-to. I personally find that if I imagine a character well, their speech patterns become apparent. I rarely do character sketches, but I try to see them well enough to hear their voices.
 

RubyRoo

The pretzel in an egg!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
136
Reaction score
10
Location
London, UK
My teachers always used to tell me to avoid dialougue at all costs which I totally disagree with, ofcourse, becuase without dialougue the whole story would be the same and boring and...hang on....I've just realised the best short story I've written has no dialougue....re thinking...OK
A story, in my opinion, that is spoken in the third person with no dialougue is boring.!:D
 

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,654
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
1. People do not talk in complete sentences all the time
2. People do not speak in long sentences, unless they're giving a speech
3. People tend to give and take in conversation and not monopolize
4. People do not tell each other things they already know (as in info dump)
5. People do not say each other's name in conversation every time they speak (even in a 3- or 4-way conversation)
6. People do not always say things (learn to use "silence" effectively)
7. People do not just sit and talk and do nothing else
8. People do not engage in endless chatter -- in fiction, at least. Use dialogue only when it reveals character, presents conflicts, and advances the plot; otherwise, use narration instead
9. People have distinct "voice" in speaking, even when the differences are subtle
10. People interrupt others -- they don't always take turns
 

debraji

Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
11. People don't always answer a question directly.

12. People sometimes lie.

13. Some folks are repetitive. This can be used to great comic effect.

14. You can suggest dialect through word choice and rhythm without writing it phonetically.

Listen to your neighbors at the coffee shop or on the bus. Secretly take notes. Eavesdropping can lead to great stories and characters.

After you write some dialogue, find some place private and act it out loud to fine tune it.

Dialog can reveal education, origin, sense of humor, state of mind, sensitivity (or lack thereof), the dynamics of a relationship.... Practice three-way and four-way dialogs. Does your reader always know who's talking?

Read plays, movie scripts. Then go back to novels you love and look closely at how the writer has handled dialog. It doesn't happen in a vaccuum. Setting, gesture, action, and thought can be all intertwined. Watch out for overuse of adverbs (she advised knowingly).
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
RubyRoo said:
My teachers always used to tell me to avoid dialougue at all costs which I totally disagree with, ofcourse, becuase without dialougue the whole story would be the same and boring and...hang on....I've just realised the best short story I've written has no dialougue....re thinking...OK
A story, in my opinion, that is spoken in the third person with no dialougue is boring.!:D

Ruby, I mean no offense by this, but did your teachers mean everyone, or just you? As in, did they think you, personally, write better when you avoid dialog, or did they honestly think everyone should do it? Because if the latter is the case, then that is truly bizarre. Bad dialog can slow a story down, but good dialog can be the most interesting part of a story to read. But you just said you did your best work without dialog, so maybe they noticed this about your work?

Maestro said:

"4. People do not tell each other things they already know (as in info dump)"

I am curious...is there a term, similar to info dump, that means, "a scene of dialog stuck in because nothing interesting is happening in the main plot right now?"

"6. People do not always say things (learn to use "silence" effectively)"

Very true! Along those lines, people do not always (I would almost say hardley ever) say exactly what they're thinking.

Is there anyone who previously was not good at dialog and used a technique to improve? My friend says he likes to read the dialog out loud to find out if it works or not. I've started doing that, but wouldn't you know it...it still sounded just fine to me, but I'm still not sure about everyone else. :)
 

Darin C. Bradley

Registered
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
Website
www.blackmarmot.com
Another pitfall is to use too many tags in an exchange. Typically, tags work best in formulas of three. There are many many exceptions -- I only offer this as an example.

<tag> <dialogue> <tag>
<dialogue> <tag> <dialogue>

Twos work equally well, but it can quickly become confusing if there are too many interrupting a chunk of dialogue in *one* dialogic paragraph.

i.e. Jeff shrugged. "I don't know -- I'm afraid of monkeys," he said, fingering a cigarette. "If they weren't so furry," he continued, "I might like 'em --"

If this terrible example took place in more than one dialogic paragraph, it might not be so freight-trainy:

Jeff shrugged.
"I don't know -- I'm afraid of monkeys," he said, fingering a cigarette. "If they weren't so furry, I might like 'em --"


Just my two cents
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
Celia Cyanide said:
I am curious...is there a term, similar to info dump, that means, "a scene of dialog stuck in because nothing interesting is happening in the main plot right now?"
Yes. It's called, "delete this entire chapter/scene."

For addition to Ray's list:
15. Don't start off a line of dialogue with "Look" or "Well" unless you want to use that as a quirk of one of your characters. (This is a personal peeve, so others may disagree)
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
Darin C. Bradley said:
Jeff shrugged.
"I don't know -- I'm afraid of monkeys," he said, fingering a cigarette. "If they weren't so furry, I might like 'em --"
Or:
"I don't know. I'm afraid of monkeys." Jeff fingered a cigarette. "If they weren't so furry, I might like them."

This is more compact and includes two little things important for dialogue.
1. Avoid redundancies (e.g. saying Jeff shrugged his shoulders and then have him say "I don't know.")
2. Overuse of em dashes and ellipses. I'm sure most people know that an em dash in conversation is used for a sudden interruption, and an ellipsis is used to show a line of dialogue that tails off, sometimes unfinished.
Sorry to be preachy.
 

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,654
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
16. People do not curse incessantly (in fiction), even though in real time they may use the F or the S word every other word all the time.

17. Avoid cliche and stereotypes. Sure, your character might like to say, "Bro.." or "You know what I mean..." or "Get out" or "Doh" or "Honey," etc. all the time, but try not to abuse these "flavors" or "quirks."

18. (this one I'm not sure about, but my editor told me so and I think it makes sense...) There are no semicolons in dialogue.
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
NeuroFizz said:
Yes. It's called, "delete this entire chapter/scene."

No, that wouldn't be what it's called. That would be what you should do with it.
I'm looking for a noun, in case I wanted to ask someone, "Is this scene a [insert term here]?"

If there is not a name for that, someone should make one up.
 

debraji

Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Uncle Jim has said that often when readers spot a problem with your story, they are quite right in locating the problem, but completely wrong in their diagnosis.
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
Celia Cyanide said:
No, that wouldn't be what it's called. That would be what you should do with it.
I'm looking for a noun, in case I wanted to ask someone, "Is this scene a [insert term here]?"

If there is not a name for that, someone should make one up.
Sorry. I was being cheeky, but serious. I would call it a throw-away scene since it doesn't add to the forward movement of the story. Others may call is a filler scene. Some people put them in to slow the pace of the story, but there are other ways to accomplish that.
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
maestrowork said:
16. People do not curse incessantly (in fiction), even though in real time they may use the F or the S word every other word all the time.

17. Avoid cliche and stereotypes. Sure, your character might like to say, "Bro.." or "You know what I mean..." or "Get out" or "Doh" or "Honey," etc. all the time, but try not to abuse these "flavors" or "quirks."

18. (this one I'm not sure about, but my editor told me so and I think it makes sense...) There are no semicolons in dialogue.
Add the following, copied from my earlier post:
19. Avoid redundancies (e.g. saying Jeff shrugged his shoulders and then have him say "I don't know.")
20. Do not overuse em dashes and ellipses. An em dash in conversation is used for a sudden interruption, and an ellipsis is used to show a line of dialogue that tails off, sometimes unfinished.


Now, someone should collate Ray's list in a way we can all add to it. It may be useful as a quick reference.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
Dialogue

I'm not sure the how-to books aren't correct in saying dialogue is something you are or are not good at. A tin ear for dialogue is something I'm not sure I've ever seen corrected.

I don't think this means dialogue writing can't be improved, but it is the one part of writing that I don't believe can be taught. Having said that, there are some things I've always tried to keep in mind when writing dialogue.

1. Dialogue sometimes means writing sentences exactly the way real people talk, and sometimes means just mimicking the way real people talk. Some people do speak in complete sentences and complete thoughts. Many people do not clutter up their speech with unnecessary jibber-jabber and sounds. No two real people speak exactly the same, and generalities can get you in trouble.

Because of this, no two characters should have exactly the same speech patterns, either.

2. Never put words into a character's mouth. A good character is who and what he is. A good character is the way he is. When he has something to say, let him say it in his way. When he doesn't have anything to say, let him be silent.

3. Along these same lines, never write a line of dialogue just because it's been two or three or five pages since the last line, and you believe it's time to include more.

4. Dialogue is much more than the words being spoken. Good dialogue is about rhythm and cadence and pauses.

5. Reading dialogue aloud is a good idea, but it won't in any way tell you whether or not the dialogue is good or bad, and can't possibly tell you whether or not the dialogue is needed, or whether it holds true for a specific character.

What reading aloud can tell you is whether or not you can actually speak the dialogue without stumbling, whether or not it rolls off your tongue.

But what rolls off your tongue may tongue-tie a character in another situation or with less confidence, and what makes you tongue-tied may roll easily off the tongue of a character who is confident, educated, charming, and erudite.

So decide based on the character, not on your own reading/speaking ability.

6. Examine why the dialogue is there. What does it do? Contrary to another popular "rule," all dialogue does not have to be there just to move the story forward. If this is all dialogue does, the story isn't going to be terribly realistic. Dialogue is also a very good way to reveal character, and dialogue is also good for verisimilitude.

If a situation arises where a real person would absolutely say something, then the character should say something as well. And he will, if you don't stifle him with rules.

At any rate, dialogue is written with the ear, not with the eye, and not with the mouth. Dialogue can't be written to specific rules because no two characters are the same, and no two stories are the same.

For me, the only real "rule" I try to follow is to let the characters be who they are. Let them write the dialogue.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
NeuroFizz said:
Add the following, copied from my earlier post:
19. Avoid redundancies (e.g. saying Jeff shrugged his shoulders and then have him say "I don't know.")
.

I don't quite agree with this one. Redundancies in speech, maybe, but real people do shrug and say, "I don't know." It's very common. If your character is the type of person who would do this, let him do it. Dialogue isn't about rules, it's about people.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
maestrowork said:
18. (this one I'm not sure about, but my editor told me so and I think it makes sense...) There are no semicolons in dialogue.

Your editor is right.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
dialogue

RubyRoo said:
My teachers always used to tell me to avoid dialougue at all costs which I totally disagree with, ofcourse, becuase without dialougue the whole story would be the same and boring and...hang on....I've just realised the best short story I've written has no dialougue....re thinking...OK
A story, in my opinion, that is spoken in the third person with no dialougue is boring.!:D

There have been a handful of very good third person short stories written without any dialogue, and one masterpiece, Jack London's "To Build A Fire," that has only one short line of dialogue, said to no one, as the protagonist dies.

First person fiction is really all dialogue, only without the quotation marks.
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
Jamesaritchie said:
I don't quite agree with this one. Redundancies in speech, maybe, but real people do shrug and say, "I don't know." It's very common. If your character is the type of person who would do this, let him do it. Dialogue isn't about rules, it's about people.
The point being, do what feels right. The "no redundancies" was put to me by an editor who was trying to help "tighten up" the section, and improve the rhythm. Redundancies can drive a reader (at least me) nuts if they are frequent. That's my caution.
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
Jamesaritchie said:
5. Reading dialogue aloud is a good idea, but it won't in any way tell you whether or not the dialogue is good or bad, and can't possibly tell you whether or not the dialogue is needed, or whether it holds true for a specific character.

What reading aloud can tell you is whether or not you can actually speak the dialogue without stumbling, whether or not it rolls off your tongue.

But what rolls off your tongue may tongue-tie a character in another situation or with less confidence, and what makes you tongue-tied may roll easily off the tongue of a character who is confident, educated, charming, and erudite.

So decide based on the character, not on your own reading/speaking ability.

I never realized it before, but now that you mention it, I think this is really the root of my problem.

I am also an actor. Sometimes, at auditions, and even sometimes on shoots, I am handed a script that is, to put it bluntly, quite bad dialog. I can't rewrite the script. Sometimes, they let you once you are cast, but it's bad form to say at an audition, "you know, this dialog could be better, and I'm the one to do it!" So I make it work. Those words may not sound like something anyone would say, but I have to find the state of mind the character was in that made her say it, and make people believe it.

If I read my dialog aloud, I can "play" any of the characters I've written, and I can make their words work. That doesn't mean that's what other people will hear in their head when they read it. When I first read a script, what I hear in my head is usually different from the way I say a line after I've been reheasing a while.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
NeuroFizz said:
The point being, do what feels right. The "no redundancies" was put to me by an editor who was trying to help "tighten up" the section, and improve the rhythm. Redundancies can drive a reader (at least me) nuts if they are frequent. That's my caution.

I agree, but I simply wouldn't consider this a redundancy. And, of course, some writers have made a reputation from redundacy. Try reading Gertrude Stein.
 
Last edited:

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
69,217
Reaction score
34,431
Age
46
Location
Cheering you all on!
debraji said:
11. People don't always answer a question directly.

12. People sometimes lie.

I had to train myself to write people outright lying, not just omitting things. Even my dishonest characters, I still wanted them to say only true things, but have them be misleading. Then I realized that they would lie, & I need them to lie, so why wasn't I making them lie?

maestrowork said:
5. People do not say each other's name in conversation every time they speak (even in a 3- or 4-way conversation)

Oh, god, I am so guilty of doing this sometimes. I go back through my work & go, "Sage, why do you have her saying his name every time she opens her mouth?!" I know it's not done in real life, but it comes out when I'm writing when someone is calling someone, or to emphasize a statement, or whatever reason I find for it. Then I have to go back through & find which ones are actually needed.


I think the key to writing dialogue is just knowing your characters (someone said this already, & I agree). Put yourself in their place & think of how they would respond to a situation or another character's comment. If you can't find their voice, it might be a clue that that character needs a little more development.

Me, I have a tendency to allow the dialogue to take over the story, so I wrote a character who almost never spoke. It's fun to give yourself challenges! :crazy:
 

RubyRoo

The pretzel in an egg!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
136
Reaction score
10
Location
London, UK
Celia Cyanide said:
Ruby, I mean no offense by this, but did your teachers mean everyone, or just you? As in, did they think you, personally, write better when you avoid dialog, or did they honestly think everyone should do it? Because if the latter is the case, then that is truly bizarre. Bad dialog can slow a story down, but good dialog can be the most interesting part of a story to read. But you just said you did your best work without dialog, so maybe they noticed this about your work?

Wierdly enough she was talking to everyone! Lots of my mates only read the dialougue in books.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.