Reader's Imagination

Then my first piece of advice would be to start reading. A lot. I'm always amazed at the number of people who think they can write without doing any 'research' into what makes a good piece of fiction - namely, reading it. It's (pretty much) impossible to understand the psyche of an avid reader without becoming one yourself. You need to find out what makes a good or a bad book. If your reader reads more than you, the author, do, it shows. Your book will be thrown against the wall and forsaken for one written by someone who is familiar with the tools (and the art and craft) of his trade.

Use the five senses (show vs. tell) to help the readers imagine.

IMO, it's not enough to read. Readers don't often notice the conventions of fiction, such as how to use punctuation within dialog, how to attribute dialog and so on. I like to study how my favorite authors put the sentences together, to make note of how much I (the reader) learn about the character or situation from the first paragraph alone, etc.

azbikergirl said:

IMO, it's not enough to read. Readers don't often notice the conventions of fiction, such as how to use punctuation within dialog, how to attribute dialog and so on. I like to study how my favorite authors put the sentences put together, to make note of how much I (the reader) learn about the character or situation from the first paragraph alone, etc.

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Of course. My point was that reading a lot is the first stage, after which one should study punctuation, grammar, syntax, dialogue attribution, etc. But writing without reading is like trying to build a house without bricks IMO.

I'm not a fantasy reader myself, Elwyn so I can't recommend any particular books in that genre. Perhaps Amazon would help there? Still, I am very surprised that you would try to write in a genre you don't read. Maybe you're writing the wrong type of fiction? What do you read most of? What do you enjoy? Write that instead. Me? I write mainstream, as that's what I read most of. The rest of the time I read chicklit, historical biographies and true crime. I don't write fantasy simply because I don't have any interest in it, which in turn explains why I don't write it. It's just not my thing. Go to your local library and pick books up at random. See what grabs you. Then overdose on that particular genre. You need to surround yourself with the genre you write in, before you can truly know what you're talking/writing about.

Talk to ANY successful writer. You HAVE to read. Even if you aren't reading like a writer, it all sinks in. You'll know what you like. This is where we all start. Once you couple writing with reading, you'll start reading really critically, analyzing they way the author puts sentences together, the way they describe things so that you don't want to skip the paragraph, EVERYTHING. This will all help you write.

You HAVE to read.

Elwyn, check out this thread: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20232

I'm a big fan of Robin Hobb and George R.R. Martin. Try "A Game of Thrones" by Martin.

Elwyn,

I echo other posts here, why would you write something you don't read? HOW can you write something you don't read?

Some Sci-Fi/ Fantasy books I like...

Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley (Any of her books really)
Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card (And the rest of the Ender series, plus a host of his other books)
The Chronicles of Narnia series by C.S. Lewis (Great, but I suggest partly because I know you are aiming for kids.)
If you thought LOTR was too combersome, you might try The Hobbit, it is the precurser to it and maybe easier to read. I read it in 6th grade, whereas I read the rest at 25.
Lois McMaster Bujold has some excellent books, too. And my AnneMcCaffrey is popular. My husband likes Terry Brooks & HP Lovecraft. There are some great Star Wars novels, too.
This only scratches the surface. Post the question in the Sci-Fi Fantasy forum on these boards, too.

Oh! and... get Orson Scott Card's How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy. It's a great tool. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158297103X/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

And there are some great magazines like Asimov's with short stories. I have to stop, I'll just keep going...

It's fine that you read that other stuff, but if you want to write a ceratin genre, it is a good idea to READ it. OTher wise, what you write will end up being cliche, because you won't know it's been done before, but everyone else will. It's great that you read other stuff, it is good to be well rounded, but you need to know the genre you are writing.

Elwyn,

For starters at why you need to read Sci-FI Fantasy to write it, check out this thread.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9341

Sass

Reading

Elwyn said:

I

So why would I try fantasy / sci-fi? Because since I can remember I've always been taken by the stuff - on the screen. Yes, the '50's B movies - and my all-time favorite: Forbidden Planet. It was light years ahead of its time.

!"

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"Forbidden Planet" was light years ahead of other movies, but it was also light years behind novels of the time. Watching movies is not a good background for writing novels. If you're really taken by stuff on the screen, you should probably be writing stuff for the screen.

The only way to know what's been done, and how it's been done, is to read wisely within a genre. Very widely. Watching movies only tells you what's been done in the movies, and anything new in a movie is probably an old cliche in novels.

The best way to find a book that you're going to enjoy is to head to your local bookstore and browse the sci fi/fantasy section. Read the first few pages of anything that looks interesting and, if it hooks you, buy it.

In my opinion, I would have never been able to write any kind of fiction before I had read, oh say, three or four hundred novels. After reading so many books, it makes me able to tell whether my own writing actually has the form of a real story. I think that in some way we learn through osmosis. If you read enough you'll be able to see how stories are put together and it should be a lot easier than writing blind. Craft and storytelling will feel more natural.

Books are so much more complex than movies. In a movie, we see the scence on the big screen. In books, we have to use our imaginations to see the scene.

I guess my point is: Read!

Take a novel-writing class.

Elwyn said:

I read the first of the Lord of the Rings - too slow and cumbersome. I've read two HP books - too silly. I do like fantasy and sci-fi and well done romantic movies. Can you recommend any books?

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Tolkien and JK Rowling are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of fantasy. You have been given some good suggestions by others in this thread. The "Chronicles of Narnia" were among my favorite books as a youth. The "Wizard of Earthsea" trilogy by Ursula LeGuin is excellent young adult fantasy.

However, it sounds like you are more interested in something closer to science fiction than "hard core" fantasy, since it seems like you want to give technical explanations for "magic", rather than accepting magic as a real element to the world you are building.

One suggestion is Anne McCaffrey's Dragonsong/Dragonsinger Pern novels - they have "dragons", but they aren't really dragons in the magical sense. I loved those books as a teenager and I still enjoy them today.

The following are books I enjoyed as a youth and teenager (I also enjoy both the Lord of the Rings and the Harry Potter books, so you can take my suggestions with that in mind):
Orson Scott Card's Enders novels (as suggested above - you can read a bunch of his work for free http://www.hatrack.com/osc/index.shtml)
Zenna Henderson, "Pilgrimage: The Book of the People" ("witches" on earth)
Panshin "Rite of Passage"
"House of Stairs" (I can't remember the author)
Madeline L'Engle, "A Wrinkle in Time"
Heinlein's juveniles (e.g., "Farmer in the Sky" and "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel")
Isaac Asimov: Foundation series and his robot novels
Frank Herbert, the first "Dune" novel
Ray Bradbury "Brave New World"
Walter Miller "A Canticle for Leibowitz" (I may be spelling that wrong)

There are lots of others, but these stand out in my mind. Most of these I read as a teenager, rather than a grade-schooler.

From your other thread on the critique board, you indicate you want an "underlying meaning" that teaches the reader. For readers to take anything away from your books, they first have to be engaged by the story, so it's important to "research" the books that your audience already enjoys. Once you start looking at a variety of young adult books (not just those made into movies), you should be able to find some that you enjoy.

From my own experience as a reader, I think it's important not to underestimate the imagination or knowledge of your audience. Even as a young reader I was put off by books that did a lot of obvious "teaching" or spelled things out too simply.

The Waterloo Library has a good compilation of lists of speculative fiction for kids (http://www.waterborolibrary.org/bklistj.htm#jspec) and young adults (http://www.waterborolibrary.org/bklisty.htm#yaspec). You might start there.

I love when the writer makes me, the reader, paint the picture.

I think the need to explain things to the reader varies with the genre, but as I go along with the writing of my first draft, I find I'm starting not to bother with the niggling details of facial descriptions, and character thoughts. I feel I should be able to find the places where they're truly necessary in the revision process.

On the other hand, when it comes to describing environments, and rooms, I try to stay in practice with getting those pictures across in a tight paragraph. To me, that's the kind of description you can't get away from, and it takes some work to get it right. If I don't take a stab at it the first time around, I'm not going to want to fill it in later.

Reading

As King says, "If you don't have the time to read, you don't have the tools to write."

But I think it goes deeper than this. The one thing I believe all good writers have in common is a complete, deep, and almost fanatical love of reading fiction. I'm not sure it does any good to tell anyone they should read more. If they love reading fiction, they read as much as they can get their hands on. If they don't like reading fiction, telling them to read it just isn't going to do any good.

It's said that "writers write." But fiction writers also read fiction, and usually have since they were toddlers.

Elwyn--if you prefer watching movies to reading books, perhaps you should be writing a screenplay instead of a novel.

Torin said:

Elwyn--if you prefer watching movies to reading books, perhaps you should be writing a screenplay instead of a novel.

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It doesn't matter. You still have to learn the craft. Screenplays have even stricter formats and structures. Just because we appreciate a painting doesn't mean we know how to paint.

I think reading (or study the subject like painting) is important -- at least we learn to appreciate the art itself -- but I agree that you really can't learn the craft of writing (or painting) just by studying the artifact itself. Appreciating something is different than doing. I read books before I became a "writer." I never understood the craft such as POVs, show vs. tell, dialogue, character development, etc. until I actually took classes and studied. I strongly recommend every aspiring novelist learn as much as they can through books, seminars and classes.

azbikergirl said:

I'm a big fan of Robin Hobb and George R.R. Martin. Try "A Game of Thrones" by Martin.

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I'm not even a fantasy reader, but family members twisted my arm until I gave Martin a chance.

Awesome, just awesome.

Maryn, whose license plate says HODOR