A maths question re. agents

SafetyDance · Nov 23, 2010

I live in the UK. Say I get an agent in the US, and that agent takes 15% of "home" takings and 20% of "foreign" -- would that be their home or mine?

Just wondering -- in theory, if "home" was the US, I'm likely to sell more copies there as it's much bigger than the UK (as I said, in theory). So I would get 85% of bigger sales as opposed to getting 80% with a UK agent. In other words -- US agent for UK writer = more profitable for writer?

Am I making sense here, and am I right?!

alleycat · Nov 23, 2010

If your work was first published in the US, "foreign" would mean outside the US (although I'm not sure how Canada is counted); it wouldn't matter where the author actually lives.

Terie · Nov 23, 2010

alleycat said:
If your work was first published in the US, "foreign" would mean outside the US (although I'm not sure how Canada is counted); it wouldn't matter where the author actually lives.

Not quite. It doesn't make any difference what country the work is first published in.

'Home' refers to the agent's location, not the author's, and not the country of first publication. This is because when an agent makes a deal in another country, they have extra fees to pay to a third party agent in that country to handle some aspects of the transaction. I live in the UK, and my agent is in the US. If he sold a book to a UK publisher first, he'd get 20% (as opposed to 15%) to cover his extra costs for that third party in the UK.

SafetyDance · Nov 23, 2010

Thanks both.

Am I right that it stands to be more profitable then, given that the rights sell in the US?

Terie · Nov 23, 2010

Firebrain said:
Thanks both.

Am I right that it stands to be more profitable then, given that the rights sell in the US?

Honestly, I think relative percentages shouldn't even be on the list of considerations. You want a reputable agent who loves your work and with whom you can work. It doesn't matter where he or she is; it matters that you have a good, steady relationship.

SafetyDance · Nov 23, 2010

Terie said:
Honestly, I think relative percentages shouldn't even be on the list of considerations. You want a reputable agent who loves your work and with whom you can work. It doesn't matter where he or she is; it matters that you have a good, steady relationship.

Indeed; I still wondered though.

KTC · Nov 23, 2010

Thanks for asking this question, Firebrain. It couldn't possibly be more topical for me...I just didn't get around to asking yet. And thank you for the answers!

whacko · Nov 23, 2010

In my case, 15% or my UK earnings, even allowing for currency fluctuations, is exactly the same as 20% of my US earnings - a big fat zero.

SafetyDance · Nov 23, 2010

Ahh, Whacko -- that's pants!

Just seems more likely that if I am lucky enough to find an agent, it'll be a US one purely because there are so many more of them to choose from. UK agents seem a lot tighter as to genres etc that they take on, too (and so few of them blog etc -- it's harder to know what they want).

gothicangel · Nov 23, 2010

I think it would be hard for a first time UK author trying to sell initially to the US. How will you promote, publicise etc?

SafetyDance · Nov 23, 2010

gothicangel said:
I think it would be hard for a first time UK author trying to sell initially to the US. How will you promote, publicise etc?

I asked this question re. practicalities on another thread. The reponse I got was that many UK authors had US agents and hadn't experienced any great problems. The thread should be around somewhere on this board

whacko · Nov 23, 2010

Firebrain said:
Ahh, Whacko -- that's pants!

I can't help it if my sights are set low!

Okay, seriously, and it took a moment to get the spelling right, isn't 80% of something better than a 100% of nothing.

Bare in mind, the US market is about 5 times the size of the UK's. So 15% of "home" takings and 20% of "foreign" is, if successful, rather a wide gulf. It could even be the difference between paying the deposit on a London flat, or buying it outright from what's in the bank.

So get the agent first, I'd suggest. Whether they love your work or not is a question of art. An Agent is, to me, a modern day alchemist: they turn ordure into gold. Which is why James Patterson doesn't have to bother the neighbours, looking for a cup of sugar until payday.

Or something.

Best regards.

Whacko

Miriel · Nov 23, 2010

Anecdotal bit about country-swapping: Dan Wells, who's in the US, was first published in the UK and his book did great there, apparently. It's only more recently been released in the US.

thothguard51 · Nov 23, 2010

I think Canada has two rights markets.

1...Canada is usually included in the US market as North American rights.

2...Canada is also included in UK markets as part of the common wealth, just like Australia is. If I am not mistaken...

shaldna · Nov 24, 2010

Firebrain said:
US agent for UK writer = more profitable for writer?

Possibly. I guess it really depends on the market and the agent and the publisher.

JimmyB27 · Nov 24, 2010

Firebrain said:
Thanks both.

Am I right that it stands to be more profitable then, given that the rights sell in the US?

Wouldn't it be even more profitable to sell it in the US *and* the UK?

Jamesaritchie · Nov 24, 2010

gothicangel said:
I think it would be hard for a first time UK author trying to sell initially to the US. How will you promote, publicise etc?

It's not difficult to promote and publicize, no matter where you live, and both are extremely overrated, anyway. And no matter what you read around the Internet, the publisher does most of the promotion and marketing.

What's left can almost always be done online.

Kathleen42 · Nov 24, 2010

alleycat said:
If your work was first published in the US, "foreign" would mean outside the US (although I'm not sure how Canada is counted); it wouldn't matter where the author actually lives.

It depends on the contract, I think. If an editor acquires the North American rights, my understanding is that it includes Canada.

To the OP's question:

The 15% is, as I understand it, based on where the agent resides. If your agent is in the US, they may need to enlist the help of a foreign rights agent to help sell the rights in other countries (including the UK), hence the higher fee for those sales. You're residing in the UK doesn't really lessen the additional effort/resources they have to put into those sales.

(As always, could be wrong. That's just how I suspect it works.)

A maths question re. agents

SafetyDance

L'Oreal. He's worth it.

alleycat

Still around

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

SafetyDance

L'Oreal. He's worth it.

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

SafetyDance

L'Oreal. He's worth it.

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

whacko

Keeping up with the class

SafetyDance

L'Oreal. He's worth it.

gothicangel

Toughen up.

SafetyDance

L'Oreal. He's worth it.

whacko

Keeping up with the class

Miriel

New kid, be gentle!

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

Jamesaritchie

Kathleen42

crushing on fictional characters