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Old 08-17-2005, 02:43 AM   #1
Elwyn
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Question Infinity Publishing

I searched this site for info on Infinity Publishing and didn't find any bad news about them. Did I miss something? I did find one poster who recommended them highly - and I'm about ready to send them (Infinity) a check.

Also, Infinity is not listed at Editors and Preditors, for whatever reason.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:59 AM   #2
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Infinity is yet another pay-to-play vanity POD.

If that's what you're after, that's what it is.

Self publishing can make sense in some small number of situations: Specialized non-fiction, defined-niche fiction, and poetry.

For general interest works intended for wider audiences, self- or vanity- publishing may not be your best choice.
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:29 AM   #3
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I understand what you're saying, but sometimes you have to pay-to-play. It's like entering a horse in a race that you've spent a lot of money on - and there's an entrance fee. Regarding motorsports, if you do well, you may just get a big sponsor. Until then, you'll always be paying (a LOT) to play.

As I see it, if a book does well enough, it may get the attention of a good agent or publisher. Since mine is the first of a series, that’s what I’m hoping.
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:49 AM   #4
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Er...no, that's a whole load of cobblers. Sorry. Your only 'investment' in the process is the time and skill to write a manuscript that someone wants to buy, and anyone who tells you differently is just making a play for your purse strings.

Out of interest, have you submitted your book to any of those good agents or publishers yet, or is this a pre-emptive admission of defeat?

Last edited by Richard; 08-17-2005 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:15 AM   #5
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Question Infinity Publishing II

I was directed to Diggery. Im asking for analysis of my comparison between the two (Diggery & Infinity). See my thread Infinity vs Diggery
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:46 AM   #6
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For Richard

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Originally Posted by Richard
Er...no, that's a whole load of cobblers. Sorry. Your only 'investment' in the process is the time and skill to write a manuscript that someone wants to buy, and anyone who tells you differently is just making a play for your purse strings.

Out of interest, have you submitted your book to any of those good agents or publishers yet, or is this a pre-emptive admission of defeat?
I really did not understand your comment about "cobblers." And, I want the book published hoping it will catapult the following books.



The reason I used the racing analogy: People spend their life’s savings to get involved with the hope of doing well enough to secure a sponsor that will let the original investor recoup his cost and get paid to perform. Did you ever see the Dale Earnhardt story?



Yes, I've sent to some that are recommended at the predators and editors sitel; got a half dozen rejections and haven't heard from at least three others yet.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:56 AM   #7
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the problem is that it's VERY unlikely that a publisher will see your POD and say "Hey, I need to get that author!" - it's more likely that you'll be unable to get your book onto the shelves of your local store, spend more money on publicity than you'll recoup and no one will ever hear of your book nor the sequels.

it's hard, but work towards getting a legitimate publisher and/or a good agent to make your book accessible to everyone - not just the online crowd or those who love to pay for overpriced books.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
I really did not understand your comment about "cobblers."
Cobblers. Noun. Nonsense. Gibberish. Flapdoodle.

Quote:
The reason I used the racing analogy: People spend their life’s savings to get involved with the hope of doing well enough to secure a sponsor that will let the original investor recoup his cost and get paid to perform. Did you ever see the Dale Earnhardt story?
No, but a quick Google search tells me it's completely irrelevant. You're trying to get a book published, not cope with the staggering expense of a high-end car that you can't so much as practice your skill without. They're not related subjects.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:31 AM   #9
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My 2 cents

I have a book (non-fiction) that I know will sell to a very wide audience. There is no competition - at least none that have attempted to take on the subject that I have. I sent queries/proposals to over 40 literary agents and 12 publishers that take email queries/proposals two weeks ago. The results:

PA accepted - but after what I heard all over the net I refused

14 asked if I had submitted it elsewhere and said they wont look at it because I did

3 said "NO"

and the rest have not bothered to reply

I dont have the time to fart around with all these guys who want eight to twelve weeks separately to 'consider' things on an exclusive basis - and thats just the agents. How long will the publishers take on top of that? I hear an average of a year to go the traditional route.

The subject matter is time sensitive as the issues surrounding it are getting hotter on a daily basis - I have been working on it for four years as I new that one day it would be a hot topic - like now.

I can get my book available at all the online stores in the US, UK, and Europe within a month for a whopping $260. I can also get 200 copies at 3.53 each or $706 total in 2 weeks that I plan to use as review copies & book signings in the 2 weeks before the book is listed online. The retail will be $13.95 for a 144 page 5.5 X 8.5 paperback and $18.95 for hardcover. My only expenses are 5.31 per distributed book for production and fulfillment and whatever wholesale discount I choose to offer on the paperback. Do the math - with only over a hundred books sold at retail (I can easily sell 400 - 500 that at my university alone) I made my initial investment back getting $8.64 per book I buy in profit.

I'm willing to invest less than a thousand bucks and some time for that. You go Elwyn - but check out diggory too.

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Old 08-17-2005, 06:00 AM   #10
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Epicman, I commend you for researching BEFORE you sign on the dotted line. I did, but not enough, and I gave up much too quickly.

I did an online search for agents, but it never occurred to me to search online for a publisher. That shows you just how terribly inexperienced I was/am. I didn't even know about POD publishers. I'm just finding out that there is an array of these types of publishers. An author contacted me today about my book and when I looked up hers, she has BookSurge as a publisher. They appear to be along the same lines as the ones discussed here.

Best wishes to you, whichever way you decide to go.

Edited to say, I've already spent $1,000 for various things and my cost per copy to buy from PA - well, I stink at math. It was $413 for 50 books, so you do the math. And that's the one time, 50% off offer.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:15 AM   #11
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There are real publishers with real distribution arrangements who do the "insta-book" thing. Remember all the OJ books, back when that was hot?

Anyway, sounds like you've already made your decision. Best of luck, and let us know how it all works out for you.
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:12 AM   #12
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Thanks Rose

I'm so sorry about your PA experience. I'd be there too if I had saved the link to PA and not done a google search looking for them - then found all this...

James - I do remember the OJ hype and the insta-book stuff. The problem I face is getting those types of publishers to even look at my stuff - they are FLOODED all the time. Sure if I was willing to wait a year that would work - now I'll just have to let them see it this way - I think some will want to pick it up but heck - I figure that on a per book basis I'll never get a deal as good as this.

Besides my contract with Diggory is non-exclusive and can be terminated with the click of a mouse - no strings - if I do get an offer I can't refuse.

And Rose, don't feel bad... I almost signed that day with PA and I am a research scientist with extensive work in biology, chemistry, physics, history, and education. If it were not for one question I wanted to look up on PA's site - I would have signed.

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Old 08-17-2005, 07:46 AM   #13
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I have commented on Infinity before--upstream on either the POD or self-pub thread. I have both completely self-published a book (using a good regional printer) and used Infinity for other books. (My next book, however, is better suited for a commercial market, so I will start querying soon.)

If you can sell over a thousand books, consider complete self-publishing. Working with a local publisher, you can have your book in 6 to 8 weeks. I did. I am now mid-way through my second press run with my self-published novel.

If you can sell at least 200 books, Infinity is a good choice IF you already have a readership in place, your book is of interest to those primarily in your region, you have speaking engagements, school appearances, or other appearances where you can sell your book, etc. You will have your book in hand about 8 weeks after signing the contract.

Infinity is honest, does what it says it will do, has a toll-free number answered by a live person, responds quickly to emails, gives you considerable input in the font & cover design (or you can have them do it--included in the set-up fee) and you can get your rights back with only a few days notice. Infinity does occasionally give discounts on the set-up fee (including a discount for returning authors and discounts for those who have attended particular writers' conferences--won't hurt to call them and ask). You don't need more than their basic service. It does take about 3 months for your book to be on the online book sellers, like Amazon and B&N.

Infinity does about a book a day, according to the author rep, John Harnish. Local bookstores and other shops who already know you are likely to order from Infinity because of the return policy. (Infinity ships these books individually shrink-wrapped, by the way--I discovered that when I stopped in at a shop that carries my books.) Because Infinity prints in-house, it ships out books very fast--I've never waited for more than 5 days; usually I get them in 3. If you order 20 or more books, shipping is free. I usually order 20 at a time for readings. Three regional independent bookstores and three local gift shops order my books directly from Infinity now.

Infinity's cover prices are less than most other PODs--that's a plus. Your first order with Infinity is 50% off cover. Because you get a 10% royalty on what you buy, your price is actually less than half of the cover price. After that, you get 40% off (and royalty).

If you already have a readership and you buy 200 books with your first order, you can hit break-even by the time you sell about 160-170. If you do lots of appearances/readings, you should be able to sell this many in a short time. (Because I have a large rural older readership, many of whom won't buy online, selling them myself works. It won't work for everyone.)

Infinity sends a royalty statement out every month so you know exactly how many copies have been sold. However, they don't send a check until you have accrued $20 in royalties.

Infinity paid for a very nice lunch for its authors at the 2005 Virginia Festival of the Book. They also had our books on display (and for sale) and provided snacks and coffee for us throughout the day.

POD doesn't work for all situations; it isn't a good choice for the blockbuster novel, for example. I doubt it would be good for memoir/autobiography. However, for some niche markets, it can work very well. Yeah, POD is vanity, etc. However, if you write a good book, your readers don't care how you are published. (At least mine don't here in rural America!)

The important thing to remember for POD is, will you be able to make back your investment soon? If you have a strong local readership and a good, fairly-priced book, you can make a profit.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:55 PM   #14
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To Epicman

As you may have surmised, I'm quite new at this thing about book publishing so please bear with me.

You said "The subject matter is time sensitive as the issues surrounding it are getting hotter on a daily basis - I have been working on it for four years as I new that one day it would be a hot topic - like now."

I have an idea that may help you. Pull some of the stuff from the book and send it to magazine editors - they're always (so I'm told) looking for material. Plug your book in the article - use your magazine article as a teaser.

To Richard: Nice Web site. Oh yes, someone once said you have to spend money to make money.

Back to Epicman: Sice we both have the same interests (I'm guessing your book has something to do with bioengineering and how labs all over the world are playing like Dr. Frankenstein), I'd like to know the title of your book and how your are treated by your POD.

To PVish: Thanks for the info!
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epicman
I sent queries/proposals to over 40 literary agents and 12 publishers that take email queries/proposals two weeks ago. The results:
Epicman, I'm not trying to be nasty here, and I hope you'll take this in the spirit in which it's intended. What you did was to send out a scattershot blast of queries to agents and publishers selected not because they would be the perfect agent or publisher for your work, but because they take e-mail queries and you wanted to send out a bunch at one time fast. This tells me that you didn't do much research (if any) on the agents or publishers, and didn't really know if they were suitable or how you should properly submit to them (at least 14 do not consider simultaneous submissions, which you should have known before submitting--and you misunderstand what "submission" means if you told them that you had submitted it elsewhere if you just sent out queries), and most likely you did not target your query letters to each individual agent and publisher.

In other words, you spammed them. You shouldn't be surprised if they don't take you seriously if you don't present yourself professionally.

You seem to have made up your mind already, but in case you haven't, your best bet would be to research who the best agents and best publishers for your book would be, and write a targeted, kick-butt query letter to each of them individually. Publishers can get hot-topic books in the stores very quickly--look how fast biographies of John Paul II were on the shelves after his death--and they already have marketing and distribution channels that you need to sell a hot-topic book. With self-publishing, you have to start from scratch, and the time you waste trying to get up to speed with marketing and distribution will almost certainly far exceed the time you spend getting the right publisher.

Whatever you choose, good luck.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:35 PM   #16
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To Richard: Nice Web site. Oh yes, someone once said you have to spend money to make money.
Many people have. Most con-artists, for a start. Keep up that attitude, and you'll be meeting some of them pretty soon (Not necessarily anyone mentioned in this thread, whose companies I know nothing about, but the sharks are out there, and arguments like that are Christmas bells to their warped little skulls. Their favourite cliche, in case you're wondering, is 'There's a sucker born every minute', and there's none better than someone actively desperate to throw money at a problem to make it go away.)

Professional writers however work on a very different basis, roughly summed up as 'you have to sell work to make money'.

Think about it. What seperates you from most other business ventures? You don't need offices, you don't need huge research grants, you don't need raw materials beyond your brain, a few stamps, and something to write with. You already have everything you need - the opening investment in your writing career is time, patience, and the occasional huge bar of chocolate when things don't go right.

And consider this one. If you can't sell a story to editors and agents that are specifically looking out for new work to promote, what's going to change when you have to try selling it to random strangers on the web? Think how many copies you'll have to sell to recoup your opening 'investment' - to get to the point where spending money turns into 'making money' rather than just disappearing out of your bank account. How are readers even going to find it to care? What reason do they have to buy it?

No matter how good your book, it's still competing against the entire world with a higher than average price, and a lack of availability in the places where most people buy books (bookstores, in case you're wondering). POD/self-publishing works great for certain subjects - as Uncle Jim says above. General fiction isn't one of them. Even without the up-front fees, you're still going to be thoroughly handicapped from every single angle when you start trying to make sales. If you can get past that, fine, but don't think for a second that just dropping your book on some random website is going to make it magically sell more than a handful of copies.

Just as an example, you'll notice that even PVish, who seems really happy with Infinity's service (again, I make no comment about them specifically, it's not a company I know myself) says that he doesn't want to use them for a more commerical book.

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Old 08-17-2005, 07:09 PM   #17
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"You have to spend money to make money" and I do. The paper isn't free. The ink for my printer costs plenty. The computer and software -- the electric bill every month -- all money I have to spend. Then there's postage, telephone, subscriptions to certain magazines, books to buy to keep up with the field ... yep, truer words were never spoken. You have to spend money to make money.
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:00 AM   #18
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Infinity, huh?

Well, P&E doesn't have them listed because we hadn't encountered them yet; we hadn't received any complaints about them yet; and we hadn't been asked about them.

By the way, if you ask about a publisher or agency here or elsewhere, it's a good idea to mention the URL for their web site if they have one. It's also a good idea to mention what city they're in. That's because we've noticed there are a lot of companies with similar names, some of which are deliberately nearly alike very reputable businesses in order to provide camouflage for their own scams among those who might act without reading too closely upon seeing what appears to be a well-known or at least familiar-sounding business name. Mentioning one or both of those will do a lot toward eliminating inaccurate information and recommendations based upon those similarities.
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:07 PM   #19
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Infinity, huh?

Well, P&E doesn't have them listed because we hadn't encountered them yet; we hadn't received any complaints about them yet; and we hadn't been asked about them.

By the way, if you ask about a publisher or agency here or elsewhere, it's a good idea to mention the URL for their web site if they have one. It's also a good idea to mention what city they're in.
I've used Infinity (since 2001) and have no complaints. As I've said in other posts, they do what they say they'll do. They're easy to approach and have been helpful to me. Their books have lower cover prices than many other PODs—and the author will know in advance what the cover price will be. (No PA big surprise here!) They send a royalty statement out every month along with their newsletter. Since they print in-house, books are shipped out fast.

Infinity is based in Conshohoken, PA. Toll-free number is 1-877-BUY-BOOK. URL is http://www.infinitypublishing.com. Their street address is on the website. (They have a large ad that lists their services in the Sept./Oct issue of Poets & Writers.)

Their online bookstore is http://www.bbotw.com.

Infinity's contract is posted online here:
http://www.infinitypublishing.com/agreement.htm

Any author who goes the POD route should know what he/she is getting into. POD is not for everybody, but it can work pretty well under certain circumstances. POD works IF the author writes for a niche market, has a local readership already in place (from writing for local papers or magazines), already does public appearances or speaking engagements, has a web site and other ways to promote book, has a good rapport with local independent bookstores, etc.

Most people using POD don't need all the bells & whistles that every POD publisher offers—only the basic service. Besides the POD's bookstore, the author only needs Amazon.com for the few people who will order online, since that's what most online book-buyers use. Having a POD book offered on a multitude of sites won't make the book sell better. A POD book will sell because the author is already known; it won't make the author well-known.
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:14 PM   #20
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Hello Elwyn,

I am very happy with my publishing experience through Infinity. My first book was released in July and the second is coming out next week. They provide all the information you need right up front in a book you can order for free--which is also an example of the quality of the end product. They use easy-to-understand language, and their service has been excellent--very responsive to phone and e-mail communication, and friendly. Infinity has been criticized for paying low royalties, but they increased their percentages on September 1. Good luck with your decision.

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Old 09-10-2005, 06:41 AM   #21
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I am very happy with my publishing experience through Infinity. . . . Infinity has been criticized for paying low royalties, but they increased their percentages on September 1. Good luck with your decision. Marilyn Haight
I'm also a satisfied Infinity author. I've done three books with Infinity—all for very specific niche markets that would not interest a commercial publisher.

I couldn't find any info on their website, though that they were increasing royalties. Don't they still pay 20% on retail and 10% on wholesale? Plus they do pay authors royalties on what the authors buy themselves, so that helps.

I needed 20 copies of one of my books ("Peevish Advice") for a speaking engagement I'm doing next week. I called Infinity late Tuesday afternoon. My books were on my doorstep today (Friday). Not bad delivery time. Plus, with 20 (ordered at the usual 40% off retail), I don't have to pay shipping, and I'll get royalties.

Becky
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Old 09-10-2005, 10:44 AM   #22
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I apologize if I offended you PVish. No offense was intended.

My choice was between Infinity and Diggory and I did a thorough investigation. No one had a problem with Diggory and one other had a good experience with them. Now I am a client and as I go through the experience I have been sharing it with anyone who cares here on this thread.

They do give the author a lot of freedom of choice but they will advise you so one does not screw up a book. One side benefit I see is that no one knows who they are and they may not trash my book immediately when they see in reduced font buried within the copyright page the name of the publisher. This was MY choice. I did not want the publisher name anywhere on the cover. Professionals may look for it but the masses - my target audience - won't care who printed or published the book. It looks as good as any other book on the shelf as far as quality goes.

Diggory is an imprint of Meadow books in London. No they have no US address and they don't give you a luncheon. What they do is charge you a very low price for set-up, allow you great freedom of choice, and they deliver a quality book to the author at 75% discount from retail. Oh, they also pay over 60% royalties and they too pay them with statements - monthly if they exceed $200 - quarterly otherwise.

Now I'm not too good at math but I figure you more than paid for your luncheon, coffee, and snacks at that festival - not to mention travel expenses (maybe you live there and that is not a factor.) I would rather take the 40% per copy more in royalties that I get than you and spend that on some poster and flyer printing and some review copies to send to reviewers. I spend about an hour or two a day personalizing press releases to news outlets I Google. A great deal of those refer me to the person who reviews books and those I send a press release to have specifically requested a review copy.

As for a toll-free number - no Diggory does not have one - Rosalind at Diggory has called me once and all our other correspondance is done via e-mail. I do have her cell number if ever I feel a need for an instant response. She always replies within a couple of hours - if not minutes - That is personal service. My orders are sent to the printer within an hour or two of sending them to Rosalind and I have my books in 5-6 business days.

I can even have returnability for the bookstores - If I chose to. An account is started where Diggory withholds a portion of my royalties to hedge against any returns. Yes I have to stick my neck out if I want returnability - but at present that is not an issue. Sales are going so well without the bookstores I may not ever discount 55% and offer returnability - I have no need of a bookstore - yet.

I am just comparing apples to apples here absolutely no offense intended. I just was making you and anyone else who may read this aware of the facts. A toll-free number, a US address, lunch, coffee, and snacks just isn't worth giving up a 40%-55% chunk of my royalties. If you like Infinity great. There are also others reading this thread that may be comparing for their own books. They are wary and they should be. Due to the lack of any reports against Diggory I decided to share my own experience here on the boards and it has been nothing but positive so far. Some may not care but Diggory and its parent Meadow Books (a 'traditional' publisher) are a Christian run outfit who treat people very well and have always exceeded my expectations.

One additional benefit: I can truthfully claim that my book is simultaneously printed in the US and the UK. While you may not care - I do and so do the others who have seen the front page photo and article in the metro paper on my book. In the days following just the one paper's article my sales really took off. Kind of unrelated to the discussion at hand but it does illustrate one benefit of Diggory.

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Old 09-10-2005, 06:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Epicman
I apologize if I offended you PVish. No offense was intended.
None taken at all. What works well for one might not necessarily work well for another.

Quote:
What they do is charge you a very low price for set-up, allow you great freedom of choice, and they deliver a quality book to the author at 75% discount from retail. Oh, they also pay over 60% royalties and they too pay them with statements - monthly if they exceed $200 - quarterly otherwise.
Since Diggory charges 11 pounds a year to maintain a book, this was a turn-off for me. The book I ordered from Infinity last week was published in 2001. Infinity charges nothing to keep a book listed (I hesitate to say "in print").

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Now I'm not too good at math but I figure you more than paid for your luncheon, coffee, and snacks at that festival - not to mention travel expenses (maybe you live there and that is not a factor.)
The luncheon in question at the Festival of the Book was the $40 per plate sold-out Crime Scene luncheon. I had wanted to attend, despaired that it was sold-out, and was delighted to learn that some of those tickets sold had been to Infinity. (Infinity also provided parking vouchers)


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I would rather take the 40% per copy more in royalties that I get than you and spend that on some poster and flyer printing and some review copies to send to reviewers.
I rarely do that. My POD books are written for a very narrow and mostly local audience. For example, "Peevish Advice" is a compilation of my first two years' humor columns. Most of the people who buy it are local. My area has a lot of newcomers, so they buy it to catch up on what they've missed. If I need publicity, the paper I write for is more than happy to provide one of their popular columnists with some coverage. A few people buy copies from Amazon; most buy from me or from one of the local gift stores that orders copies from Infinity. (Infinity does have a return policy.) Because a few other local authors used Infinity, the shops know the publisher and know it's reputable.

Quote:
As for a toll-free number - no Diggory does not have one - Rosalind at Diggory has called me once and all our other correspondance is done via e-mail. I do have her cell number if ever I feel a need for an instant response.
How do bookstores and other shops order? The small bookstore (the only one in my county) and the gift shops that stock my books call Infinity directly.

Quote:
I am just comparing apples to apples here absolutely no offense intended.. . . Due to the lack of any reports against Diggory I decided to share my own experience here on the boards and it has been nothing but positive so far.
Again, no offense taken. I like to hear of success stories with publishers. It sounds as if we both found situations that work for our particular circumstances.

Becky
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:18 PM   #24
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What does anyone think of Infinity Publishing?
I have used Infinity for some small projects--collections of short stories and my older columns--of primarily local interest. Infinity is easy to work with and, as PODs go, and reasonably priced if you don't get all the bells & whistles. (You don't need the bells & whistles!) Unlike PA, Infinity has a toll-free number and you can talk to a helpful polite person when you call. Infinity prints in-house and, unlike what I've heard about PA, gets books to you within 3 days. If you buy at least 20 copies (enough for a reading or two), shipping is free. Another plus over what PA offers.

A POD works IF you already have an audience in place and IF your project would not interest a commercial publisher. Collections of poetry, essays, and short stories are suitable for POD because they are a hard sell for commercial publishers.

Unlike PA, Infinity sends a royalty statement every month. Royalties accrue until they reach $20; then you're sent a check. Infinity also sends out a monthly newsletter.

Infinity does have a returnability feature, but I don't know if that really helps. I doubt that stores will order POD books unless they know in advance they can sell them. (When one of the local gift store orders my books from Infinity, they call me to come in and sign the books. Unwrapping the plastic from each book to so I can sign is a pain.)

Infinity will be at Virginia Festival of the Book on March 24, where its Virginia authors will have their books displayed and where Infinity will pay $45 per author so we can attend the popular Crime Scene luncheon. Unlike PA, Infinity encourages its authors to socialize with each other, compare notes, etc.

Infinity gives stores a 40% off discount, the same as it gives its authors (although first orders are 50% off).

I have made a modest profit from my Infinity books (but keep in mind I have a strong local readership), and I will use Infinity again for one more small project. However, I have other manuscripts of wider than local interest that I'm currently shopping to commercial publishers.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:27 PM   #25
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I've met some of the Infinity VIPs at writing conferences and such. They seem like nice folks who really believe in what they're doing.

As far as I know (and Victoria keeps the database, remember) Writer Beware has not received any complaints about Infinity to date.

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