What are the odds? Really?

stace001 · Sep 21, 2005

I'm disappointed about the number of unpublished writers yet to get their shot at the big time. (or even to just have their writing noticed by someone is the industry)
I'm currently editing my third novel, and while i didn't put too much effort in getting the first one represented, I'd really like to see the second one find an agent. it was during the editing process of my second that i fell across this site. The number of amazing writers still searching for agents and publishers is frustrating. What hope do we all have of getting our work out there?
For the most part, I'm positive and confident about my writing abilities, but when thoughts like this occur to me, it almost seems pointless. I get great joy out of writing, but its not always enough. I want others to enjoy reading my stories as much as i enjoy writing them. Do we have much of a chance? Really?

HConn · Sep 21, 2005

New writers get published all the time. If you have a manuscript that people think will garner an audience, you will get published. Just keep at it.

This new writer just signed a two-book deal.

This guy's new book came out this year.

Good luck,

HConn, just dropping back in for a bit.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 22, 2005

Odds

There are no odds, except the odds of how well you write, and how dedicated you are. Or maybe a better way of saying it is "how well you tell a story and build characters."

If you can do this, and have the dedication, you're in. If you can't do this, you're probably out.

Just make up your mind that you can do it.

Garpy · Sep 22, 2005

the odds are pretty tall. There's a lotta writers out there, hawking around their manuscripts. If there's one suggestion I can make....it worked for me...make your script stand out from the get-go.

Don't write yet another YA novel featuring a dragon of any kind.

Don't write yet another crimer thriller, featuring a PI or cop with some neurosis , drink problem or debilatating emotional hang-up

Don't write about an early 30's professional woman, juggling a career, and motherhood in lightly whimsical way.

Do look for an area/genre that has been neglected for a while, isn't crowded with me-too writers, and find a refreshing new way to 'paint' the genre.

Cathy C · Sep 22, 2005

Now, see --- I disagree. I think that really fresh, clever books with dragons will ALWAYS sell, and thrillers/PI novels from newbie authors hit the stands every day. I wish I could tell you the secret, but I can't. If it helps though, I've only been at this writing thing since 1999, when I joined forces my co-author. Our first book came out in 2003, then one in 2004, one this year and three next year. So yes, Virginia (well, okay, stace001), it happens every day. Keep an eye on these forums, and nearly every week you'll find someone who found a real agent or was offered a new contract.

The one thing they have in common is perseverance. Every one of us kept pushing and pushing to become a better writer and searching for just the right agent and house to fit the book.

Good luck!

James D. Macdonald · Sep 22, 2005

If you've written a book that surprises and delights, a strong story strongly told, your odds are excellent.

If you haven't, your odds are abysmal.

victoriastrauss · Sep 22, 2005

Garpy said:
the odds are pretty tall. There's a lotta writers out there, hawking around their manuscripts.

This is true, but it's also kind of misleading. Yes, there are a lot of writers hustling to get published. Yes, only a small fraction of them succeed. But the hard truth is that of all those vast numbers of manuscripts, very few even approach publishability--10% or less. If your work is marketable, you're not in competition with every other writer out there--just with that 10%.

- Victoria

Nateskate · Sep 22, 2005

Cathy C said:
Now, see --- I disagree. I think that really fresh, clever books with dragons will ALWAYS sell, and thrillers/PI novels from newbie authors hit the stands every day. I wish I could tell you the secret, but I can't. If it helps though, I've only been at this writing thing since 1999, when I joined forces my co-author. Our first book came out in 2003, then one in 2004, one this year and three next year. So yes, Virginia (well, okay, stace001), it happens every day. Keep an eye on these forums, and nearly every week you'll find someone who found a real agent or was offered a new contract.

The one thing they have in common is perseverance. Every one of us kept pushing and pushing to become a better writer and searching for just the right agent and house to fit the book.

Good luck!

I agree. I think Formulas dumb down the industry, but tried and true formulas sell. And that's what some Genres bank on. Perhaps it is different from Genre to Genre. Some are hot, and have so many copycats they turn off agents. Yet, I think even then it depends on a hook and not saying, "I'm the next Mike Brown" or whoever is hot, and I've written the next version of their best-seller.

Since so many writers make similar boasts, no one takes them serious. A few years ago I met Norman Mahler's agent, and a conversation led to her asking me a question that floored me, "What's your book about?" Heck, I spent so much time writing it, and having no clue what I was going to be up against, I was dumbstruck and couldn't give a coherant answer. Perhaps in my magical thinking, agent spidey-senses would just start tingling when my book was ready, and they'd come knocking at my door and begging me to show them my book?

Now, the book wasn't ready yet, but I realized next time someone asked that question, I'd better have an answer that could fit in the size of a paragraph. And I took that very seriously. I think more people pass or fail the publishing grade due to a poorly written paragraph than a poorly written book.

maestrowork · Sep 22, 2005

My book is coming out in a few months.

Yes, it happens.

Write a good book. And market the hell out of it.... like Uncle Jim said, until Hell won't have it.

MadScientistMatt · Sep 22, 2005

Stacie,

Have you read Slushkiller? I know it's referenced a lot around here, but it is a pretty interesting look from an editor's point of view about the odds of getting published. The odds are definitely not like a roulette wheel where the ball has an equal chance of landing on each book.

zcooper · Sep 22, 2005

There are two kinds of people, those who think they can aand those who think they can't. Both are right.

Julie Worth · Sep 22, 2005

stace001 said:
Do we have much of a chance? Really?

It doesn’t matter how original you are, or how beautiful your writing, breaking in is impossible. It just can’t be done. The best thing for you is to give up and seek employment at the nearest factory or fast food restaurant. Yes, do this now. Go!

<Cackles to herself at moving up one in the slushpile.>

Writer2011 · Sep 22, 2005

Maybe there is hope for me after all...I am currently working on a PI novel now...

I started one a few months ago and actually finished it, but I am working on a new one now...

stace001 · Sep 22, 2005

Aaaahhhhhhh.

I've had my little dummy spit, and you all pulled me from it pretty damn quickly. Most of the time I feel as you do. Keep pushing and I'll get there. My story is a good one. Could even be a great one. (i'm still doing a final edit, but comments so far are very good. And no, I don't mean from Mum who thinks its the greatest book ever written.

) And after my little kick up the pootootie, I'm back on track to pound those pavements (so to speak) and get my ms to as many people as i can. We all have our crappy days, and that was one of mine. Thanks to all who added a boot to my rear. I appreciate it.

stace001 · Sep 22, 2005

Oh and Maestro and Cathy C, CONGRATULATIONS :Clap:

on the new books. You've renewed my faith.

reni · Sep 22, 2005

My very first book was accepted by the very first publisher I submitted to.

Of course, then the company became defunct. But the point is, sometimes we just submit to the right place at the right time, and we luck out. Every published author I know looks at it that way. He or she beat the "odds" and got in somewhere.

There's no formula, no magic wand, no sure thing. Great books get passed over all the time. Crappy books get published all the time. Editors and agents have bad days, get pissy, and scribble "NO" on everything that comes past that day. It's all a game of chance, and you can't win if you stop playing.

Christine N. · Sep 22, 2005

Ok, me too. I got rejected by a bunch of agents, then sent to publishers directly and had lots of positive response. <shrug> I also think it depends on the right place at the right time. My publisher happened to be pretty new when I subbed. Not that that means one thing or another, except that their slush pile was much smaller than it is now.

I just subbed to an agent who left her agency and started her own, three weeks ago. She's looking to fill out her client list with what I happen to write. Lucky me. Even luckier if she sends me a contract (ohpleaseohpleaseohplease).

So.. do all the normal stuff - get Writer's market, cruise P&E. BUT keep your eyes and ears open. I found out about the agent through a children's writers board, from one of her clients. It wasn't announced anywhere, I don't think, and I never would have known otherwise.

Just make sure you have a great story. Yes, there's a dragon in my upcoming book, but it's not a main character. He's a nice guy - I like him.

watcher · Sep 22, 2005

If you've written a book that surprises and delights, a strong story strongly told, your odds are excellent.

Right on again, Jim!
I like that; I'm gonna put that on my wall.

Diana Hignutt · Sep 24, 2005

Recently, a succesful writer I know told me that it is a myth that every great book will be published. Lots of great books don't get published. It happens all the time. Maybe had the authors submitted to just one more place...

IN the end...I believe that if you never give up, you can never fail...

Bufty · Sep 24, 2005

Christine N. said:
Yes, there's a dragon in my upcoming book, but it's not a main character. He's a nice guy - I like him.

Whaddayaknow. I have a dragon, too. A wise-cracking, thieving, bluffing know-it-all confidence trickster and guess what - he's not the main protagonist either but pretty darned close and he's probably the character folks will attach to and remember if (Oooops - when) the novel gets published.

I wrote one of my query letters from his perspective and received a very kind rejection addressed to him.

I persevere.

Torin · Sep 24, 2005

If you keep trying, polishing, sending out to agents and publishers, your chances might be 1 in a billion (I'm exaggerating). If you DON'T try at all and let your manuscript sit in a drawer, your chances are zero (no exaggeration). 1 in a billion is better odds.

azbikergirl · Sep 24, 2005

I get the Publisher's Lunch in my emailbox, from Publisher's Marketplace, and about once a week, it lists some debut novels. Sometimes it's one or two, sometimes four or five. I find that encouraging. If you look for it, you can find a lot of discouraging info on being a novelist, and for some it may be enough to hang up the keyboard/pen. Some may not want to read those articles. I read them so I can go in with my eyes open to the issues in the world of publishing fiction, but I'll be damned if I let anyone's nay-saying stop me from pursuing my lifelong dream. <takes keyboard into teeth and gives it a good shake>

victoriastrauss · Sep 24, 2005

Diana Hignutt said:
Lots of great books don't get published. It happens all the time.

You know, I just don't really believe that. Some, certainly. But not lots (at least, if the writer is actively submitting). Subjectively, there are millions of great books. Objectively...not so many.

- Victoria

Liam Jackson · Sep 24, 2005

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, however, I'm reasonably sure of a few things.

1. Some unpublished members on this forum will sell a novel (or novels) in the coming year(s). These are the folk that possess some degree of talent, a good story, and the gall to actually submit. (and submit, and submit, and submit...)

2. Some unpublished members on this forum will NOT sell novels this year, next year, or any other year. These are the folk that possess some degree of talent, possess a good story and do NOT have to the gall to submit.(and submit, and submit, and submit...)

3. Some unpublished members on this forum will sell NOT sell a novel in the coming year(s) because they have no knack for writing or storytelling. (the latter being more important to a novelist, in my humble opinion.)

4. Some unpublished members on this forum will write amazing novels, submit one time, and strike out. The "strike out" will be because of poor timing, wrong target publisher, or more likely, a debilitating lack of confidence.(this one-strike-and-I'm-outta-here attitude has probably deprived me of some great reading material over the years.)

maestrowork · Sep 24, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
You know, I just don't really believe that. Some, certainly. But not lots (at least, if the writer is actively submitting). Subjectively, there are millions of great books. Objectively...not so many.

- Victoria

Great books don't get published because the authors don't care enough to push for it. I'd say, if you spend 5 years writing a great book, you should spend AT LEAST 5 years marketing it, until HELL won't have it. Most authors, however, give up too quickly and easily. They'd think, "Well, I just wrote a great book. Now everyone should just knock on my door and ask for it." That's a common mistake to think that way.

What are the odds? Really?

Look into my eyes

Whore for genre

keyboard monkey

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Your Genial Uncle

Writer Beware Goddess

Fear the Death Ray

Empirical Storm Trooper

zcooper

What? I have a title?

Look into my eyes

Look into my eyes

Work in progress

haz a shiny new book cover

Very Tired

Where have the last ten years gone?

Wandering vaguely

I really do look like this.

Writer Beware Goddess

Heathen Horde Elder

Fear the Death Ray