Discouraged Writer

mystified · Sep 20, 2005

Hi all. Just found your forum and hope it's OK to post a "negative" message right off the bat. I finished my first novel (sci-fi genre) about six months ago (2 years to write it). I am just about at the point that I believe the "My Documents" folder on my computer is about as far as it will ever get. Since I began my search for an agent or publisher, I have the feeling that the writing market is glutted with writers, unread manuscripts, and rejected query letters.

I guess what frustrates me the most is that we are imperfect humans, living in an imperfect world, but the publishing industry doesn't seem to be aware of that. All submissions, apparently, must be *perfect* when submitted. A simple typo can cause a rejection.

I have no idea how many times I have read, proofed, and re-typed my query letter. Yet, after I send it, I always seem to find something else wrong. My latest was late last week. *AFTER* sending it, I read it again about an hour later. I have a GLARING redundancy I never spotted before. This is one a high-school English student should catch, and I missed it! To quote: "....has experienced two traumatic experiences in his life." I can't believe I never saw that before! It's too late for this submission....it's already sent. Naturally, I have now edited that sentence in my query letter to read "....has experienced two traumatic episodes in his life." Is it just me, or has this happened to others?

One thing I do know for sure, however: I will NEVER go to some scam outfit like PA, or some fee-charging POD publisher!!! If they are the only ones who would publish my book, then it will remain on a disk buried in my desk drawer. I suppose that, even if it never gets published, I at least have the satisfaction of saying I actually wrote a novel. It is complete, with beginning, plot, sub-plot, and logical ending.

I suppose a bit of honesty would be a good thing to insert now, so here it is: I am 59 years old (58 when I finished writing the book), and have not studied writing for over 25 years. I'm also unpublished, and am beginning to believe my work just is not *good enough* for today's market.

OK, I'm through with my "depression" thing. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this, but I just have nobody to talk to about these things. I'm not in any writing class (my situation prevents that), and I have nobody around who's interested in such things (the people I know need to ask me how to spell simple words, and I gave up on getting them to understand basic punctuation a long time ago). Anyhow, thanks for listening. I guess I just needed to unload. I'll try to be more upbeat in future posts.

I'll also try not to make any misteaks

Best....Larry

Julie Worth · Sep 20, 2005

Hell, Larry, I’ve experienced many such experiences! Do look around this place. There are boards just for ranting (rejection and dejection) and boards to post your work (and query letters) where members will be pleased to inform you of what’s right in front of your nose, and maybe some things you would never have thought of.

mystified · Sep 20, 2005

mystified said:
My latest was late last week.

See? I did it again!

OK, so I'll re-word it: "My most recent was late last week."

Oh, well......

Thanks, Julie. I'll have a look at the other forums here. Much appreciated....

Jamesaritchie · Sep 20, 2005

Writing

"has experienced two traumatic experiences in his life" Is hardly the worst sentence I've ever seen in a query, and not nearly as bad as some goofs I've made. One such sentence is highly unlikely to kill a query.

As for your novel, well, the wrtiing world is extremely competative, and maybe your first novel isn't good enough. Most first novels aren't. So you sit down and write a second and a third. 59 is young, and a goodly number of writers have started out older than you are.

But the writing world doesn't demand perfection. If it did, I never would have been published. I've never seen a perfect published novel, let alone a perfect manuscript.

Love the writing process itself, and practice writing on a daily basis. If you love the writing, if you can't wait to sit down and write each day, the publication/business side will usually take care of itself. And even if it doesn't, there's still the pleasure of the journey.

veinglory · Sep 20, 2005

Take what you've learned on that book and write another! Keep querying and submitting. If that doesn't work you can eaither 'drawer' it or try smaller presses.

I find writing short stories and poems and working with small presses helps give me some of the exposure and interaction I need to stay perky about the whole writing thing--but different people have different approaches.

Vanessa · Sep 20, 2005

Hi Larry, May I steal a bit of space here? Your dilemma sounds like a fresh beginning of an end! And that's good news! The end was 25 years ago.

After 25 years of not studying writing, you've begun to further the craft. That's a fresh beginning. You HAVE written a complete novel including plots and endings. That's a lot of progress. It means you're serious! That's also a beginning.

Depression is something most writers feel one time or another. It's good and healthy for the soul. It keeps us in tact and it's a test to see if we are truly writers and can surpass this monster. This also is a fresh beginning.

You say you have no one to talk to? We are always here for you. Some of us may not have the best answers, and most of us will, but together we are here to listen for as long you need to talk. That also is a beginning. (You've found us and we you!)

And more importantly, you have recognized your mistakes. THIS IS A PLUS! I don't mean to yell, just excited to say it because this is an accomplishment. You see the more we recognize the mistakes we make, the better writers we become. This is an amazing beginning. There are many writers who claim the title and don''t have a clue to the obvious ongoing mistakes they make. You do!

Larry, you have truly accomplished so much. You seem eager to do this "writing thing." And I say, Hey, keep making the mistakes, and then correcting them, because it puts you one more step closer to a deal. I appreciate your admiration and I wish you the very best. Just please promise you won't give up! And do keep us posted.

Now go get 'em!

pconsidine · Sep 20, 2005

There's probably a degree to which the standard screenwriter's advice relates: No one sells their first screenplay. When you finish the first, drop it in a drawer and start the next.

I realize that 2 years is a long time (though I know screenwriters who've worked at least as long on their first selling script), but it's only gonna be longer if you don't get cracking on the next one.

Welcome to the disgruntled club. Where there is always a free seat.

Cathy C · Sep 20, 2005

Hi, Larry, and Welcome!

I understand your frustration, but trust me -- the others here are right. There's nowhere to go but up from where you are right now. Let's think about the positives for a moment:

1. You wrote a whole BOOK in only two years! I'd say that better than 50% of the people who want to be a writer never actually type "The End" on a manuscript.

2. You've only been querying for six months. Doesn't it seem only fair to all that effort to give the search for the right publisher the same amount of time you gave to writing the book?

3. You're in the writing habit now, and probably have other ideas that are burning a hole in your fingers. Flick that switch and start the next book -- stand-alone, sequel or even short stories, while the search continues.

4. You've found friends here that will cheer your successes and commiserate about your rejections. Use the opportunity to spice up your work, or work on your synopsis while the queries are out.

Good luck!

DeniseK · Sep 20, 2005

Hey, Larry. I like everything that Cathy said, and I'd like to add....

"Neither in this world nor elsewhere is there any happiness in store for him who always doubts." --Bhagavad Gita( c. B.C. 400) Sanskrit Poem

Niesta · Sep 20, 2005

And if you find yourself daunted by the fact that you'll be 61 years old after another two years working on that second novel, just ask yourself this:

How old will you be if you DON'T do it?

We're rootin' for you, Larry!

mystified · Sep 20, 2005

Thanks so much for all the encouraging replies!

I was really amazed at how many took the time to respond, and so soon, too. I really do appreciate it.

Actually, I began a search for an agent or publisher about a year ago. I spent much time browsing sites such as AAR, Writer Beware, Preditors and Editors, and SWFA (Science Fiction Writers Association, since that is the genre of my novel). It was through doing that BEFORE starting my search that I was able to learn something about scams and shady operators.

I have to say that I did send my synopsis to one agent who ended up requesting the full MS. However, I had the presence of mind to check her against the Preditors warning list. Sure enough, she's "Highly not recommended" (Desert Rose Agency, Texas). I did not send her the MS, and have heard no more. I guess my only fear now is that she'll think it's a good story idea and write it herself, having seen the entire story line. All I can do is hope that is not the case. However, no others will get the synopsis or MS until I've done some research on them.

When it comes to agents listed with AAR, I did send them an email asking how to access that list, but never received a reply. I'm still looking for one who adheres to AAR standards.

When it comes to not selling the first novel, I'm not surprised and, yes, I do have an idea for another one. I'm still researching it, as it is a takeoff on a very old sci-fi movie. I do believe that, if it's done right, it has potential.

Well, enough rambling

Thanks again for all the nice replies.

Best....Larry

Cathy C · Sep 20, 2005

Go here, Larry. You can access the AAR database online.

http://www.aar-online.org/mc/directory/viewsimplesearch.do

Use the search term, "science fiction" and choose "ALL of these words." You can also search by those accepting new clients, or do an advanced search for regions or other genres. Good luck!

mystified · Sep 20, 2005

Thanks so much, Cathy! Very much appreciated!

Jamesaritchie · Sep 20, 2005

Agent

mystified said:
I did not send her the MS, and have heard no more. I guess my only fear now is that she'll think it's a good story idea and write it herself, having seen the entire story line. All I can do is hope that is not the case.

Best....Larry

Don't worry about that for a second. It won't happen. Being able to take a good idea and turn it into a salable novel takes a lot of skill and talent. If she had this much skill and talent, she would already be a writer, not a scam agent.

Vomaxx · Sep 20, 2005

mystified said:
Since I began my search for an agent or publisher, I have the feeling that the writing market is glutted with writers, unread manuscripts, and rejected query letters. /QUOTE]

Your feeling is quite correct. The writing market is indeed just as you describe.

So what? You have proven your perseverance by writing and carefully revising a complete novel--which is a lot more than many writers ever do--and you must now show similar perseverance in submitting it. I'm sure you will.

Like you, I discovered, to my horror, an amazing number of repetitions in my writing--it is certainly one of my faults. Undoubtedly we share it with many others. But, as someone said, we shall overcome (it).

Jenny · Sep 20, 2005

Disgruntled club

I love the idea of a disgruntled club, and I'm taking my seat now.

Larry, don't give up cos one novel's not published. Write the next one.

Cabinscribe · Sep 20, 2005

Hi Larry!

I don't believe I can offer any better advice than is given in the previous posts.

I am sure that if you stick around awhile, you will find even more advice and encouragement!

So hang in there! The fact that you have a completed manuscript, and have found AW, tells me that you have put more effort and dedication into your work than most people.

Keep us posted on your progess!

victoriastrauss · Sep 20, 2005

mystified said:
Actually, I began a search for an agent or publisher about a year ago. I spent much time browsing sites such as AAR, Writer Beware, Preditors and Editors, and SWFA (Science Fiction Writers Association, since that is the genre of my novel). It was through doing that BEFORE starting my search that I was able to learn something about scams and shady operators.

This is great. I wish that all writers did as much research prior to submitting!

IMO, you're doing the right thing in searching for an agent first, at least if your goal is publication by a large publisher. A number of SF/fantasy imprints do accept unagented work, but they take a loooooong time to get to it (a year or even two isn't unknown), and it's rarely an actual editor who goes through the slush pile. Having a (good) agent allows you to skip the slush pile madness, and get your manuscript directly to an editor who can (hopefully) make a recommendation to buy it.

When it comes to agents listed with AAR, I did send them an email asking how to access that list, but never received a reply.

The AAR list is useful as a place to check agents you've already identified as possibles. But it doesn't provide enough information about the agents' specialties and interests to be helpful as a primary research source.

Here are some links that should help you identify science fiction agents:

A list of agents who represent SFWA members. You'll need to do more research on each of them, but it's a place to start.
Speculations is an excellent monthly e-newsletter with articles and market information.
If you aren't already, you should be reading Locus magazine, which reports each month on who's selling what to whom. It's one of the best ways to learn about agents and publishers in the field. There's subscription information at its website.
A relatively recent interview with some major agents in the SF/fantasy field. Very informative.

- Victoria

L M Ashton · Sep 20, 2005

I've read that it takes 5 or 6 written novels before you really know how to write a good one. I've also read that it takes a million written words before you have it down. Personally, I've recently finished writing my third novel (didn't bother to even attempt to edit the first two - they need too much restructuring), and I can notice a jump in quality from first to third, and I know I still have much to learn. I'm now working on the fourth. My third is pretty good, and even good enough to edit and get it out there, I think. The first two I'll edit and restructure, just not now.

It's great that you've finished one. I would get moving on the next one. Master the craft. Don't worry so much right now if it's perfect or not perfect - it won't be perfect regardless of what you do. But keep writing, because that's how you learn to write.

maestrowork · Sep 20, 2005

The end sometimes justifies the wait. Seriously. It took me over 2 years to write my novel. Over 10 months (and many rejections later) to find a publisher. And over a year through the publishing process... If you'd asked me 4 years ago, I'd have said, "No way it would ever take so long." But it did. It doesn't matter. My novel is in pre-order now.

And will I do that again? You bet. I'm writing my second novel.

Like Cathy said, if you spend so much time writing and nurturing your novel, shouldn't you give it just as much time or more to find an agent/publisher?

Another gold: "It takes years to be an overnight success." It took JK Rowling almost 10 years to see Harry Potter in print... sometimes something is simply worth the wait.

mrs75 · Sep 20, 2005

Larry,

You wouldn't believe how many old manuscripts I have that I've just piled into my filing cabinet. But I do have one thing that I always tell writers, and that is, never give up on your dreams, work toward them.

I've never seen a perfect published novel, let alone a perfect manuscript

Click to expand...

Me neither. As a matter of fact, I see novels by well known authors that even have a few mistakes. No one is perfect, and I don't think editors and agents expect your submissions to be 100% perfect--they just don't like submissions with many errors.

Keeping working toward your dreams. Best wishes!

mystified · Sep 21, 2005

I can't thank all of you enough!

I'm officially impressed at the truly caring support and encouragement I'm seeing here. For what it's worth, I really DO feel much better about my writing than when I first posted.

Thanks, too, to Victoria for the links. I will definitely make use of them (can't go through them until tonight...have to leave for the day and don't have access to computer online during the evening), but I will have a look at all of them.

Anyway, thanks much, again, to all!

MystiAnne · Sep 21, 2005

Larry,

I have a horrible habit of using a word twice in the same sentence, it's like a nervous tic or something! I now have a bullet list of things to check for before I send stuff out (enclosed below).

Not meaning to shrink heads or anything, but a wise guy in the screenwriting biz once talked to me about subconscious self-sabotage--we don't really believe we're good enough so we "make mistakes" that prove it. I think I did some of that, now I take a breath and use my lists to catch my inner "I'm scared of achieving this goal." If none of this resonates, fohgeddaboudit and start up on #2.

Oh, hopefully you can work with other writers in a group or attend classes or conferences to get some feedback, to help you develop your knowledge of what's good and what needs improvement in your writing? It's really hard to do it 100% alone! You'll spend less time wondering "is it me" and more time writing with the feedback of good fellow writers.

Congrats on your achievements to date, and keep going. I just got my first print publication when I never thought it would happen. If I can do it (runaway at 18, wild child, hopeless California sense of grammar, so many years as technical writer and failed screenwriter that you'd think my prose skills would be petrified!), so can you!!! There's a ton of competition, but good or original stories (hopefully both, but not always!), clear vision, singular outlook expressed in the writing will eventually get you some attention...

Mysti

One full pass through the entire manuscript per item:

- Unintentional repeated words.
- Punctuation, including missing periods at ends of sentences.
- Logical time progression (do I have 48 hours worth of events taking place in one day? Call a scene spring in one place and fall in another?)
- Changing eye/hair/clothing details (continuity)
- Read aloud test (for shorter pieces usually, including query letters). Read it aloud. What makes me stumble or take awkward breaths unintentionally

Cathy C · Sep 21, 2005

A relatively recent interview with some major agents in the SF/fantasy field. Very informative.

TERRIFIC article, Victoria! I saw that it included the wisdom of our own Andy Zack. Thanks for posting it!

Bufty · Sep 21, 2005

Mystified, I think you are doing just fine. I didn't start writing till I was 60+. :banana:

(But please don't tell anyone here or that's my credibility out the window)

Discouraged Writer

mystified

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

mystified

Jamesaritchie

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Vanessa

Writer and Music Producer

pconsidine

Too Adorkable for Words

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

DeniseK

Niesta

Canada's sweetheart

mystified

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

mystified

Jamesaritchie

Vomaxx

Jenny

Who should be writing ...

Cabinscribe

Often ignored by muses

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

L M Ashton

crazy spec fic writer

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

mrs75

mystified

MystiAnne

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?