UN-killer openings

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Gillhoughly

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Agent Kristin tells what knocks 90% of submissions off her desk and back to the writer.

Killer Openings.

I agree. I've judged a few contests, seen the slush, and had unsolicited books sent despite the "don't do this" statements on my FAQ page. Many, many, MANY of them had the same flaws mentioned on this blog.

If you're thinking agents/editors don't actually read submissions and just pick the top three off the pile to grant immortality to that month, think again. It's a dumb-ass way to run a business, any business. Those top three subs might be terrible!

They really DO want to find the next Big Writer--but writers have to meet them more than halfway by subbing something worth buying.

It ain't up to chance--it's up to the writer to WRITE WELL.

And even when you've sold books and have an agent, you still have to work hard on the openings. I had that in mind for my latest proposal. It collected 7 rejections before finding a home and took a good 6 months to do it. That's on the fast track, too, with my agent nagging them.

But hey--a contract! A check!
 

PsychicToaster

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I take issue with a lot of the prologue hate by agents. It's true they see a lot more bad ones, but plenty of books have expository first chapters that differ dramatically from the main narrative. I think it's a symptom of agents being more impatient than readers. They have good reason to be, of course, but it leads to skewed perceptions.
 

leahzero

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plenty of books have expository first chapters that differ dramatically from the main narrative.

But are they necessary? Do they add something substantial to the work, or are they author indulgences that we permit as long as they're not too offensive?

In the majority of published fiction I read that has prologues, they're often pointless, IMO.

For example:

- The crime thriller prologue that gives us a snapshot of the killer. Way to spoil the mystery.

- The crime thriller prologue that gives us a snapshot of someone who's not the killer. Red herring cliché.

- The epic fantasy prologue that tells us the story of the world's creation and/or the advent/warring of the gods.

- The sci-fi prologue that tells us about the Amazing Technology That Changed Everything (TM).

- The historical fiction prologue that sets up the legitimacy of fictional insertions/changes by giving us a history lesson.

I could go on.
 

SPMiller

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Which is why I generally skip them as a reader. So, perhaps Nelson means to suggest that she as an agent doesn't want to see them in a submission. The editor will almost certainly solicit one later in the process, if the book gets that far. Otherwise, how do we explain the preponderance of useless prologs in published fiction? I'm not going to say #4 is worthless advice, but it could have been better phrased.
 
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I take issue with a lot of the prologue hate by agents. It's true they see a lot more bad ones, but plenty of books have expository first chapters that differ dramatically from the main narrative. I think it's a symptom of agents being more impatient than readers. They have good reason to be, of course, but it leads to skewed perceptions.

Ask around; see how many people have actually read the Prologue to the Hobbit, for instance.
 

Arch Stanton

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How do you guys feel about an ominous newspaper article which has everything to do with every single page of the novel leading it off?
 

Deleted member 42

Some sample first sentences:

1. Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that
station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show.

2. It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession
of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

3. I wish either my father or my mother, or indeed both of them, as they
were in duty both equally bound to it, had minded what they were about
when they begot me; had they duly consider'd how much depended upon what
they were then doing;--that not only the production of a rational
Being was concerned in it, but that possibly the happy formation and
temperature of his body, perhaps his genius and the very cast of his
mind;--and, for aught they knew to the contrary, even the fortunes of
his whole house might take their turn from the humours and dispositions
which were then uppermost;--Had they duly weighed and considered all
this, and proceeded accordingly,--I am verily persuaded I should have
made a quite different figure in the world, from that in which the
reader is likely to see me.

4. The University Bar was not, in the grand scheme of the city, close to the university.

5. LYMOND is back.

6. In the second century of the Christian Era, the empire of Rome
comprehended the fairest part of the earth, and the most civilized
portion of mankind.


spoiler space




Spoiler space




Spoiler space



Key

1. David Copperfield Charles Dickens

2. Pride and Prejudice. Jane Austen.

3. Tristram Shandy. Laurence Sterne (I adore this book.)

4. War for the Oaks. Emma Bull. (One of my favorites--one of the two ancestors of urban fantasy.)

5. The Game of Kings. Dorothy Dunnett. (This book is like your first hit of crack. Stay away. There are five more--they turned me into a medievalist, and yeah, that could happen to you.)

6. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Gibbons.
 

Gillhoughly

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For example:

- The crime thriller prologue that gives us a snapshot of the killer. Way to spoil the mystery.

I just did a crit on one of those at my writer's group today. Yikes. Could have done without it.

- The crime thriller prologue that gives us a snapshot of someone who's not the killer. Red herring cliché.

- The epic fantasy prologue that tells us the story of the world's creation and/or the advent/warring of the gods.
Only Tolkien ever got away with that, and that's because he's...well...Tolkien. And anyway, I wanted to know more about Hobbits!

- The sci-fi prologue that tells us about the Amazing Technology That Changed Everything (TM).

- The historical fiction prologue that sets up the legitimacy of fictional insertions/changes by giving us a history lesson.

I could go on.
Good lord, this is why I always tell writers to just start the danged story! :D

Thank you!

I've been forced to write prologues twice (work for hire books) and hated them, kept them as short as possible. I still think the things were not necessary to the books, but the editor was the one signing the check.

I've a new series that *does* need a prologue, though. It is absolutely necessary for the reader's orientation.

It's going to be ONE paragraph and that's IT. No more than 50 words, if that much.

I'll ask the editor to not put the word "prologue" anywhere near it.
 

Fame<Infamy

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I've written the Prologue and its pretty important to the plot, I think its dumb that someone would just skip over something like that and honestly I don't think a lot of the prologue hate is warranted. Just because something is mishandled commonly doesn't mean it should be written off all of the time
 

PsychicToaster

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I've written the Prologue and its pretty important to the plot, I think its dumb that someone would just skip over something like that and honestly I don't think a lot of the prologue hate is warranted. Just because something is mishandled commonly doesn't mean it should be written off all of the time

This. If a prologue has been done properly, it is essential to the novel's plot, and is just as interesting and engaging as anything else in the book. Tolkien is a terrible example of a prologue, and I have seen very few that are so unnecessary. While we are talking about widely read books, most of the Harry Potter series has prologues, Rowling just disguises them as Chapter 1. But they differ in time and location, and most tellingly, POV. One is even a straight up dream. None of them could be cut without irreparably damaging the plot, though.
 

Camilla Delvalle

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During the last week I read two prologues that were worse than the first chapter. In my experience prologues are often worse then the rest of the novel. I remember at least two times when I have put down books because I didn't like the prologue. One of them I continued reading at a later time after I discovered that the first chapter was better. I'm not saying that prologues can't be well written. And I don't really have much experience. It's just that they usually seem to bad for some reason. As a writer I find it risky to begin the book in another voice than the one that will be used in the rest of the book.
 

ChaosTitan

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How on earth did this devolve into another prologue discussion? Haven't we argued this in circles?

For the record, I don't see Kristin dissing prologues in general, nor do I think agents in general hate them. She simply pointed out reasons WHY prologues are inherently bad in slush submissions. And she's not wrong.

Here's Kristin's entire comment on prologues:

4. Prologues (or chapter one) that sets up a faux conflict to “hook” the reader but then has very little connection to the following chapter—in tone, in the characters that are then introduced, in plot that unfolds immediately in the next chapter.
Bolding mine. She didn't say that prologues kill your opening. She said that prologues offering up a faux conflict that is disconnected from the rest of the novel turns her off.

Translation: if you insist on writing a prologue, make sure it has something to do with the story you're telling and isn't just there.
 

Gillhoughly

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I should have been more clear. The Tolkien prologue of which I spoke is in Fellowship of the Ring, not the Hobbit. I don't remember the Hobbit having one, it's been a couple decades since I read the books.

Next, those books were written a long time ago and if submitted today would be rejected for being too slow, wordy, suffering from viewpoint shifts and other flaws that 21st century editors pick on, including myself.

BUT--they are the books fantasy writers draw their tropes from, not unlike writers swiping from Shakespeare. (And HE swiped from earlier writers!)

As an aside, Gone With the Wind would be roundly rejected as an historical romance for deviating from the love story and not having a Happily Ever After ending, never mind the stuff throughout that was accepted behavior back in the 1920s/30s when it was written, but is hideous racism today. GWTW had no prologue, by the way.

Fame<Infamy -- It's not that there is hate for prologues but that agents don't want to see them in a query. That's why Agent Kristin mentioned the trope.

When submitting a proposal and sample chapters, the unspoken rule is send the chapters from the body of the book. If the agent requests a full, THEN you send in a prologue. The agent will determine if it's necessary to the whole of the book and keep it or ask you to rewrite it as chapter one.

Proposal + samples are a resume. They check it over, decide if they want more, then you're called in for the job interview. That's when you dress up, groom up, and bring all you have to offer to the table, which includes a prologue.

But be fully aware that a lot of readers will still skip them in the bookstore!

I didn't read Tolkien's prologue until AFTER I'd finished reading the whole trilogy and was re-reading it. By then I wanted to see what he had to say about Hobbits.



And please, people, let's NOT turn this into an "I love/I hate prologues" thread, because there are several on AW already. Pick one and shift the discussion there.



This is about killer openings and what it is about 90% of them that causes an agent to toss a MS into the "return" pile.

My first novel lacked a prologue, but the first five pages were a dismal snore.

As hard as I slaved over those words, the feedback I got told me I had to chop them and start farther in when things were actually happening.

When the MC reached a "catch his breath" point, I skipped a space to indicate that, then proceeded with the rest of the book. Looking at it now, those pages could easily be a prologue, only I didn't know at the time. The books I enjoyed most (except for Tolkien) didn't have them and just jumped into the story.

That said, I now have to look over my latest opening on a new novel and see if I can jazz it up more.

Because even if it's published I have about 10 seconds to convince a reader browsing the first page to take this book to the store register.

THAT'S the real hard sell!
 

Hallen

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I do agree with her take on it. She's just pointing out things, other than just plain bad writing, that would cause a rejection even if the rest of the story happened to be marvelous.

However, let's look at what she says and see it for what it is.

1) Don't start out with nothing but explaining and backstory. It's boring. Introduce me to the characters, setup some expectations, make the readers ask questions.
2) Essentially restating item #1.
3) Bad writing
4) False hooks. Openings obviously tacked on to hide items 1-3.

It doesn't mean you have to start your story with the major conflict of the book. Start where the story starts means many things depending on the trope, genre and style being used.
 

Cyia

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I stand by my opinion that the first pages of a story are like meeting a stranger and starting a conversation. No one wants you to detail the last ten years of your life without preamble or invitation, nor would they stick around to talk after you did, so why would a reader want that sort of info dump straight off?
 

SPMiller

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Ever read Kushiel's Dart? Carey immediately drops the narrator's life history, in-voice, onto the reader as an uninterrupted infodump with no hint of setting, situation, conflict, or anything else.

Rules suck. If you write well enough, you can get away with anything.
 
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PsychicToaster

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I think people dislike info dumps only when said info isn't cool and compelling, when it doesn't spark their curiosity for more. So a rule emerges saying they are always bad just because everyone finds one eventually that bores them, even if that same info dump is precisely why the person next to them loves the book.
 

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Would you start off a joke by saying: "Okay, here's what you gotta know in order to get the joke"? Of course not. Then why start off a novel with an infodump?

I prefer books don't have a prologue, but that's just me. I suspect the prologue tendency come from movies, where every action film since Dr. No starts off with 10 minutes of explosions and jiggling boobs before the story starts.
 

SPMiller

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I prefer books don't have a prologue, but that's just me. I suspect the prologue tendency come from movies, where every action film since Dr. No starts off with 10 minutes of explosions and jiggling boobs before the story starts.
Yeah, they can really do without the explosions.
 

Cyia

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Would you start off a joke by saying: "Okay, here's what you gotta know in order to get the joke"? Of course not. Then why start off a novel with an infodump?

I prefer books don't have a prologue, but that's just me. I suspect the prologue tendency come from movies, where every action film since Dr. No starts off with 10 minutes of explosions and jiggling boobs before the story starts.

And you can blame George Lucas for the introduction / infodump designed to explain the history of what's going on prior to the opening scene. Most of them read like clunky versions of the Star Wars title crawl.
 

Gillhoughly

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And you can blame George Lucas for the introduction / infodump designed to explain the history of what's going on prior to the opening scene. Most of them read like clunky versions of the Star Wars title crawl.
Which he took from the old movie serials from days gone by. Back then you needed those to catch people up who came in on the middle of the series.

---------------------


How about jigging boobs that explode--was that an episode of House or Nip/Tuck or Boston Legal??

Maybe it was Night Court. Gee, I miss Judge Harry and the gang.

images

 

Mr Flibble

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I should have been more clear. The Tolkien prologue of which I spoke is in Fellowship of the Ring, not the Hobbit. I don't remember the Hobbit having one, it's been a couple decades since I read the books.
I did wonder :D


Because even if it's published I have about 10 seconds to convince a reader browsing the first page to take this book to the store register.

THAT'S the real hard sell!

Exactly - and it's the same ten seconds for the agent reading it too. Whatever you do (prologue or no!), make it good, and make it relevant to what comes after.
 
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