Writing Outliner

para · Aug 24, 2010

Has anyone tried this piece of software? It's an addin for MS Word
http://writingoutliner.com/
Is it any good? I'm kind of loathe to spend almost as much on an addin as I paid for the full Office Suite.
Out of curiosity what would something like that be built in? Visual Basic?

dragonangel517 · Aug 24, 2010

I have been looking for a similar product, but I cannot afford this either. I have a couple of leads for free apps, will let you know if they pan out.

Coill · Aug 24, 2010

I like yWriter. It may not look as pretty, but it has loads of features and it's free.
http://www.spacejock.com/yWriter.html

Williebee · Aug 24, 2010

Ywriter is nice. So is RoughDraft. You'll find a number of free writing tools here.

You might also check out Plotcraft.

para · Aug 24, 2010

I really like writing in Word, it's familiar. I've tried other programmes but I've always gone back to Word.

Tirjasdyn · Aug 24, 2010

Using Ywriter you can still write in word...you just set it as your external editor that way you can use all of ywriters features but actually write in word.

R.M. Watts · Aug 24, 2010

You know, after looking at both YWriter and Plotcraft, I seriously have no idea how you guys do it. I can't plan my work out so intensively like that, although I bet it's really helpful. I just write maybe a paragraph or two about how I think a chapter should go. Yet, if I had to pick, Plotcraft and some of the features on Roughdraft look easier to handle.

It all really depends on your style of outlining, though.

Tirjasdyn · Aug 24, 2010

That's true. R.M.

In my critique group there are only two outliners, me and one other guy. Every one else is a pantser. I think the majority of writers are from the how to write books I've read.

Really I think it's a matter in of revision. I do most of my revisions in my outline so really all I need to do once a draft is done is line edit. I know a lot of other people just get it all down and then do major revisions to the tune of one two or three.

Back on topic, yWriter fits with the way I outline, start with a concept then break it down until I have a scene by scene blow. The creator of the software is an Australian novelist. He writes in Word or some such and then copies his work into yWriter to work on editing it and do the revisions. He was astonished when various people (me included) told him that we write our drafts into it.

JimmyB27 · Aug 25, 2010

R.M. Watts said:
You know, after looking at both YWriter and Plotcraft, I seriously have no idea how you guys do it. I can't plan my work out so intensively like that, although I bet it's really helpful. I just write maybe a paragraph or two about how I think a chapter should go. Yet, if I had to pick, Plotcraft and some of the features on Roughdraft look easier to handle.

It all really depends on your style of outlining, though.

I actually don't think yWriter is all that useful for planning. It's strength for me is in revision. You have the structure of your novel all nicely laid out for you. You can pull scenes this way and that, swap them around.
Much less daunting than the wall of text in something like Word.

Raindrop · Aug 25, 2010

I like FreeMind. I find it good for brainstorming, developing the plot, and helping with the research.

yWriter: for the actual writing, keeping track of time, the characters, locations, and so on.http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

R.M. Watts · Aug 25, 2010

Maybe it's because I'm the wing-it or use limited notes type but "walls of text" generally aren't fun in my book. FreeMind actually seems really cool, though. You're right, Raindrop, it'd be perfect for random brainstorming and probably for working out character traits, I'd think.

I've just been using OpenOffice Calc, which is basically a spreadsheet and very similar to Microsoft's Excel. Helps me sort through lore, characters, etc. It might not be the flashiest thing ever, but I enjoy how easy it is to use. I haven't tried outlining a plot or the like on it yet. I suppose it could be done, though. With chapters as the columns and scenes in the chapter as the rows, or vice versa, maybe.

JimmyB27 · Aug 25, 2010

R.M. Watts said:
I've just been using OpenOffice Calc, which is basically a spreadsheet and very similar to Microsoft's Excel. Helps me sort through lore, characters, etc. It might not be the flashiest thing ever, but I enjoy how easy it is to use. I haven't tried outlining a plot or the like on it yet. I suppose it could be done, though. With chapters as the columns and scenes in the chapter as the rows, or vice versa, maybe.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!

R.M. Watts · Aug 25, 2010

JimmyB27 said:
Nooooooooooooo!!!!

..Uh oh?

JimmyB27 · Aug 25, 2010

R.M. Watts said:
..Uh oh?

Heh, as I techy databasey sort of guy, it makes my head hurt when people try to use a spreadsheet as a database.
If it gets big enough, you'll find out why.

R.M. Watts · Aug 25, 2010

JimmyB27 said:
Heh, as I techy databasey sort of guy, it makes my head hurt when people try to use a spreadsheet as a database.
If it gets big enough, you'll find out why.

Well then, point me in the direction of something nifty and I'll give it a go.

...Oh wait, that's why we're here, isn't it? Which do you recommend then?

JimmyB27 · Aug 25, 2010

R.M. Watts said:
Well then, point me in the direction of something nifty and I'll give it a go.

...Oh wait, that's why we're here, isn't it? Which do you recommend then?

Well, the aforementioned yWriter comes with some pretty decent tools for character/item creation.
Lore might be a bit trickier.

Trouble is, for stuff like that, I tend to use my head.

R.M. Watts · Aug 25, 2010

JimmyB27 said:
Trouble is, for stuff like that, I tend to use my head.

Well, you see, I'm the forgetful type. Pretty sure I'll be stuck with my pretty little spreadsheet for a while longer.

JimmyB27 · Aug 25, 2010

R.M. Watts said:
Well, you see, I'm the forgetful type. Pretty sure I'll be stuck with my pretty little spreadsheet for a while longer.

If it works for you, fine. Just ignore my techno-snobbery.

Raindrop · Aug 25, 2010

JimmyB27 said:
If it works for you, fine. Just ignore my techno-snobbery.

Ah, glad I'm not alone in my techno-databasey-snobbery.

Would you believe I'm forced to use Excel to manage 32000 records with 52 columns of information? And build reports from that? Simply because the bosses don't know how to use Access?

Tirjasdyn · Aug 26, 2010

I'm a forgetful sort too.

I admit to using Excel to list the timeline, and date usage. I don't use the standard calendar and ywriter doesn't have a function for non-standard dates.

Right now I use Allmynotes for general worldbuilding stuff that isn't in the book exactly, plus a copy of what is in ywriter. I keep a printout of this just in case. Note programs don't seem to last so long.

Tirjasdyn · Aug 26, 2010

Raindrop said:
Ah, glad I'm not alone in my techno-databasey-snobbery.

Would you believe I'm forced to use Excel to manage 32000 records with 52 columns of information? And build reports from that? Simply because the bosses don't know how to use Access?

Overuse of Excel seems common in business.

Pivot table database for 200 sales people, pricing and flyer creation for entire distribution network. Why? Cause they didn't want to use anything for complicated than excel or pay to upgrade their network. Job sucked too.

AlexPiper · Aug 26, 2010

I'm primarily on Mac OS X rather than Windows, but Evernote -- the tool I use for organizing lore, research, character notes and so on -- is available on pretty much every platform known to mankind, including Windows.

What I like about Evernote is that they also have clients for iPad, iPhone, Android, WebOS, etc. So if I'm out doing errands and suddenly have an idea, I can pop open Evernote on my phone, jot it down, and then when I'm writing and have Evernote open for all my references, my notes from while I was out-and-about are already right there.

That doesn't really address the chapter/scene outlining issue, but for 'keeping lore and notes,' I really recommend Evernote highly.

typebarsmack · Aug 26, 2010

para said:
Has anyone tried this piece of software? It's an addin for MS Word
http://writingoutliner.com/
Is it any good? I'm kind of loathe to spend almost as much on an addin as I paid for the full Office Suite.
Out of curiosity what would something like that be built in? Visual Basic?

I've been using Writing Outliner for about a week and really like it. (I'm running Writing Outliner with XP MS Word 2007.) You can download the trial to take for a spin.

I've used Writing Outliner to juggle a 110,000 word project broken into about 60 documents. It has worked great.

If you don't want to spend $49 (US) on Writing Outliner, you can give Chapter by Chapter a try. It's free.
http://sites.google.com/site/sebberthet/chapter-by-chapter

My money is on Writing Outliner.

Steve

Writing Outliner

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