Welcome PublishAmerica Authors - Make this thread the first one you read here!

merrihiatt · Jul 16, 2010

Welcome PA Authors! :welcome:

We are glad you found your way to the PublishAmerica - Independence Books (PA - IB) section of Absolute Write (AW). The site link may have popped up while you were searching the net or maybe a friend directed you here because you are a PA - IB author. No matter how you found us, we hope you'll pull up a chair, get comfy, and realize you are among friends.

One of the most fabulous (and ultimately not-so-fabulous) times in my life was when I did a Google search for publishers and came across PublishAmerica. I was beyond thrilled when my manuscript was accepted, so I know that feeling of "They read my work, liked it, and think it's worth publishing!" I wanted to climb up on the roof and tell the world!

I also know what happened after I started asking questions and gathering more information about PA. My elation waned quickly. I found AW and began reading the posts here on the PA - IB threads. I was shocked, ashamed that I had believed the wording on PA's website, and a bit intimidated to post anything here. I lurked for a while and kept reading. It was almost like watching a car accident, except I was actually in the accident!

The group of people who post here have personal experience with PA or have been watching PA for years and documenting what they've seen. We (I include myself in that "we") are not happy with PA and how they treat their authors. Not one little bit. We do, however, have a passion for the written word and a great deal of compassion for those who have signed with PA without realizing their business model is to sell books to their authors, their customers. Sometimes we get a bit off track, but there's usually someone who quickly leads us back to our main goal: telling the truth about PublishAmerica - Independence Books. That's something you will not get on the PA Message Board (PAMB).

So, again, welcome. Please share your PA - IB experience with us, ask questions, and know that you are not alone on your journey.

P.S. for a mod: Any chance this could be a sticky?

Chris P · Jul 16, 2010

Merri, thanks for this! I think I'm going to need "PAA -- PublishAmerica Anonymous" to readjust after this whole experience. In keeping with the metaphor, here's my "First Step" story.

In the mid 90s, I wrote a short story that developed into a short novel. I considered trying to publish it back then, but got distracted with grad school, getting a "big boy" job, and moving across the country. In 2006 I found my passion for writing again, and gave the story another look. I loved that story! It wasn't very good, but I loved it and wanted to do more than just have a yellowing Kinkos copy in a box in the attic. I made substantial changes, mostly shortening, and wound up with a tidy 42K word novella.

Okay, now what? I looked through Writers Market again, and my head swam. How in the world do you choose? So many publishers, all wanting different things, and how do you know where to start? Some require an agent. How do you get an agent? I entered it in a novella contest, but otherwise spun my wheels. My dad had written a book about this time, and told me he had just signed with an outfit called PublishAmerica. He was pretty happy with them. I checked out their website, and they seemed to address all the questions I knew to ask at the time. They don't charge to publish (unlike places I'd heard charging $500) and they don't make you buy the first 500 of your own book (something else I'd heard some publishers do). So I inquired, and they wanted to see the whole book. I sent it gladly and in about a week I was accepted! Yahoo!

They sent the contract and I asked a bunch of questions, which they mostly answered. Problem was, I didn't know which questions I needed to be asking. I knew I would have to do a lot of marketing myself, but how hard would that be? Spend some time on the phone, maybe print up a flier to send to bookstores. I wouldn't need a bunch of books, just put the URL to my book on the flier and people can order directly. I was sure that PA was working on their end to publicize their catalog of titles. They'd do what they could with the business end of the bookstores, and I'd do what I could at the local level. My book even showed up on Amazon within a couple weeks.

My first "cluebie" moment (when I was still new and just getting a clue) was when I saw my 144-pg novella retailing for $24.95. Uh, that's hardcover, right? Nope, softcover. PA did forward a press release to my local paper, and a couple people called to congratulate me. One called back a couple days later: "Uh, Chris? $25? Really?" What could I tell him? I told him I was sorry but I had no control over the price and they hadn't told me what it would be (30 seconds in the PA bookstore would have told me all I needed to know!). He put in a request for the local library to buy it, but they too balked at the price.

I went to Google to see if others had troubles with the price. I noticed the second item on autocomplete was "PublishAmerica Scam." But, I had my two author copies. I had the signed contract. I bought 10 copies at a hefty discount (and they paid royalties on those). How could it be a scam? One hit was a place called Absolute Write, and another hit was Preditors and Editors. I read. And read. Well, I guess you're going to get some squeaky wheels in any bunch. Sure, PA wasn't what I expected, but a scam? Nah, just naysayers not wanting to do any marketing work.

But I didn't do any marketing work, either. Why should I? PA was negotiating with the chain bookstores and online outlets. The five or ten copies I could sell in my sleepy southern small town would be dwarfed by the hundreds I was going to sell once PA negotiated a deal with the bookstores. My book was listed on overseas websites. Surely that meant there was interest, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see 100 books sold in Germany, or something like that.

I got the first royalty check. My ten books were the only ones sold. Next royalty period: "Dear Author, your book sold zero copies this royalty period." Ditto the next. And all those offers emails: I could buy my own books to sell. Was PA doing anything to get my books sold? Was Barnes and Noble being that pigheaded they couldn't reach a deal with PA when they could with so many other publishers? Those naysayers on AW and P&E started to look like they knew what they were talking about. PA led me to believe what I wanted to believe. By design. They knew I would believe what I did, and they got my book and me to buy copies. Which is all they wanted. I saw PA for what it was. I'd moved beyond cluebie.

Today, all I have to do is be honest about what PA is saying about itself, and do the math on where the money goes. That's why I started the thread " PublishAmerica's Magical Carousel of Rotating Email Offers." These emails are the only effort PA makes in marketing my or anyone else's book. If you find a way to make this approach to publishing work for you, then go for it. As for me, I will not be purchasing any copies of my book, I've stopped advertising it, and I am moving on to write new and better books, which I will do my durn-blurndest to have published by a truly "traditional"--and by that I mean commercial--publisher.

merrihiatt · Jul 16, 2010

Chris, thank you for sharing your experience with PA and good luck with your next publisher.

Jill Karg · Jul 22, 2010

The PA and contract

I am PA author. Lucky for me it is only the first book of my 7 part series. I am a newbie at PA. So far I have bought some of my books but will not buy anymore of them. Their marketing techinques have gotten worse these past three months. I didn't buy into any of them other than 75% off my book (which is when I bought book). I wasn't naive going into it but I will keep after them with did you list my book on Barnes and Noble (will pester them until I see it). I am on Amazon. I also have a marketing (pr) person that is willing to promote my book in his area (good friend and at no cost to me).
The website for writers stinks, when you ask a question they don't want to hear they remove it. But I will keep asking anyway. contracts work both ways, I have contacts that might be able to make book into movie which because of their contract to protect themselves into hiring an agent and selling your book to hollywood they can't stop me from doing it. Again vague contracts can and will work both ways.

They only have the book for 7 years, no skin off my nose. I will go elsewhere after final edit of 2nd book in series which should be finished by end of year this year.

I have been blessed with good friends that happen to be able to make it possible to reach from coast to coast with my book. So despite PA, I am going to try to use them like they have used all of us.

Just fyi: I will not buy into the PAperback and Bargin Hardback gimics. Thought about the PAperback gimic (but decided to wait and see approach). The one thing they are good at is trying to sell you your own book so when it is affordable for me to use them with PAperback scam I will.

Again I can say I am published and will hopefully land a better publisher with next book.

brianm · Jul 22, 2010

Jill Karg said:
Just fyi: I will not buy into the PAperback and Bargin Hardback gimics. Thought about the PAperback gimic (but decided to wait and see approach). The one thing they are good at is trying to sell you your own book so when it is affordable for me to use them with PAperback scam I will.

Welcome to the forum. Just remember that every time you buy a copy you are putting money into PA's coffers and enabling them to take advantage of other newbie writers. If PA's authors would stop buying copies, PA would be forced to close its doors. They are a vanity press and are dependent upon the cash flow from their authors to stay in business.

Again I can say I am published and will hopefully land a better publisher with next book.

In the world of professional writing a vanity press publication does not count as a publishing credit. PA is a vanity press, so therefore any book you have with PA does not count as a publishing credit.

Your best bet would be to forget about this first book or try to get your contract terminated and your rights returned.

~brianm~

merrihiatt · Jul 22, 2010

Welcome, Jill! Several PA authors have posted on this board that they would "use" PA the way PA uses their authors. I'm afraid they were not successful in their endeavors. I wish you good luck, and more than that, I hope you will keep writing and submit your next book to a legitimate publisher.

Scribble10 · Sep 2, 2010

When I saw the PA forum on AW, I immediately joined. I’d liked to repeat some of the advice I’ve seen on this site. Here goes…if you are still thinking of sending your manuscript to PA, consider doing this:
1st. Go to PA website
2nd. Find submission page
3rd. Load your manuscript
4th and Final…UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HIT THE SEND BUTTON!!

(Add my name to the Scammed I Am list.)

Like many other folks, I’m trying to get an early release from my PA contract. So far, I’ve appealed to their human side with a nice e-mail. I’m sure it will come as no surprise to the wise, the answer was no, unless I or a third party bought 50 copies of my book(s). …Hmmm, Let me spend a nanosecond thinking about this offer before I answer…

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Sep 2, 2010

Just keep boring the hell out of them Scribble

Maybe you can bore them into a release.

Scribble10 · Sep 3, 2010

I've moved onto another project, but will keep trying to get an early release. It's more principal than any thing else right now. Doesn't take me any longer to copy/paste my orginial e-mail to them on a regular basis, than it does for them to "read" incoming manuscripts...

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Sep 3, 2010

The link in this thread is still active... best money I ever spent. If you've got $99 and really want your rights back, it's the way to go. Quick, relatively painless, and you can move on.

Cathy C · Sep 3, 2010

One of the first things you need to know as a new (or multi-published) PA author is that there is terminology in the Publishing Contract and emails that have a specific meaning in the publishing industry. Except it’s not the meaning you THINK it is by the way it’s used in the PA mailers.

1. Take a look for something similar to this language in your Publishing Agreement with PA: The Publisher agrees to cause all copies of the said literary work to be printed as the market demands, and agrees, furthermore, to cause the copies so printed to be bound, from time to time, in sufficient quantities to supply purchasers of the said literary work therewith.

This appears to be the language that puts your books in the bookstore. Except it’s not. Nothing here says and, in fact, nothing anywhere in the contract says, that PA will actually put your books on any bookstore shelf.

2. In the literature you receive, you’ll likely see something like, "will make it available for sale in bookstores."

This means exactly what it says. They’ll make it AVAILABLE for sale. PA does put all its titles in the Ingram wholesale catalog, so they are, technically, AVAILABLE for sale . . . provided a bookstore knows to go find it. The problem is that in the book industry, it’s not at all customary to make a bookstore go find books. The publisher normally contacts the store to convince the store to carry the book and then sends the books to the store for placement on the shelf. PA does not do this. If a customer goes in and orders the book, the bookstore orders it. But that then puts the responsibility to find the book on the public’s shoulders, and while "the public" is very good at finding what they want, and are willing to special order things, individual people aren’t as good at remembering to order things unless they see it at the time they’re shopping.

It’s sort of like saying you have a boat available for sale. But you haven’t advertised it for sale. You haven’t put in a place where people can see it and you haven’t done anything to let people know you have that particular boat. So if a bookstore has never heard of Joe Author, and has no idea Joe Author has written a terrific fantasy novel, they don’t know to go look for it and must wait for a member of the public to order it. Of course, the author can tell the bookstore, but there are a lot of bookstores out there and it takes a lot of time to do this.

Now, before anyone gets the idea that this site does nothing except bash PA, I want to publicly state that there ARE times when PublishAmerica can be useful and beneficial as a publisher for certain authors. These are:

A. You’ve written a biography of an ancestor but the story is only interesting to the family members. Every family member will want to buy a copy, but very few other people. TERRIFIC use for PA because it’s unlikely a commercial large or small press will want to spend the money to put this out.

B. You've written a cookbook or some other fundraising book and want to sell it for a short time to a local audience. Great use of on-demand printing.

C. You’ve written a "niche" book with a limited audience. This might be something like "Getting Started Raising Bolivian Llamas on the Andes High Plains." Yes, there are people who want to do this, and your book is perfectly suited to them. But the average reader on the street simply won’t care. Again, a perfect use for an on-demand printer like PA.

D. You don’t WANT to be a national bestselling author earning your living writing. I know it seems odd to consider, but there really are authors who don’t want to sell hundreds or thousands of books. The thought is, frankly, overwhelming. They don’t want the fame or the fortune (with the attendant headaches of rabid fans or income that ruins a retirement) and are perfectly happy to produce stories that make them a "local celebrity." They are carried at all the bookstores in their hometown, have signings, and sell well through those outlets. They might sell a hundred or two a year. For them, PA is just the right size and just the right fit. The local bookstores consider them a "bestseller" because, for a local store, they ARE a bestseller if they sell several hundred copies a year. And PA (through Lightning Source) can ship books to these stores on demand with little fuss.

Please know I’m being quite serious here. I know several of these types of authors and they’re very happy with their subsidy press (not just PA, although it is the publisher of one I know.) I struggled for some time to grasp this concept but it’s very real and it’s why there are a lot of authors who are happy to give rave reviews of the company. They’re quite happy there and good for them.

But if you want to earn $10,000 or $50,000 or even $100,000 each and every year from your writing (and I’m here to say it’s quite possible, because I do) then PA is not the place for you. You’ll never have the exposure on the national scene to hope to make a bestseller list that means anything in the industry. You’ll struggle to get reviews from magazines or sites that readers see and you’ll wind up spending the equivalent time it would take to write your next book, selling this one.

It all depends on what YOU want from the publishing process. Now you know, and now you can decide whether to continue to read the other threads here. Good luck!

Terie · Sep 3, 2010

Cathy C said:
Now, before anyone gets the idea that this site does nothing except bash PA, I want to publicly state that there ARE times when PublishAmerica can be useful and beneficial as a publisher for certain authors. These are:

With all due respect, I completely disagree that these are good reasons to use PA. They are excellent reasons to choose self-publishing, but with PA's excessively high cover price ($29.95 seems to be the current MINIMUM) and poor quality, not to mention ridiculous shipping prices and incredibly slow turnaround on orders (6 weeks and more, we keep hearing), and add to that the problems with PA books not actually being even 'available' on the online bookseller sites for the past 6 months, I don't think there's EVER a good reason to choose PA.

There are plenty of good self-publishing service providers. PA isn't one of them.

CaoPaux · Sep 3, 2010

Cathy C said:
PA does put all its titles in the Ingram wholesale catalog, so they are, technically, AVAILABLE for sale . . . provided a bookstore knows to go find it.

Small correction: PA broke with Ingrams over the suit with Lightning Source, and now use Baker & Taylor (and blame listing and availability problems on the switch, natch).

Cathy C · Sep 3, 2010

It seems to be hit or miss. When I talked with the local bookstores that stocked my acquaintance's books, they got regular shipments 1-2 weeks after ordering and never had a problem with returns.

I saw the lawsuit between PA and Lightning Source, but didn't realize they'd split completely. B&T has had fulfillment problems for several years now, so apparently things have changed drastically.

($29.95 seems to be the current MINIMUM)

True. But that doesn't seem to be a deterrant for some readers. I haven't figured out the reason yet, but an awful lot of people in smaller areas just shrug at the price and pay it. Of course, the price of books in rural areas is always higher than larger cities. Just the nature of the beast.

As for shipping, I haven't heard of any bookstores who order the books that have indicated any additional shipping cost just because it's from a subsidy press. Maybe that's only if the book is shipping to an individual.

It's also important to remember that PA is one of the very few subsidies that actually don't require out of pocket from the author like Lulu or others do. That tiny fact still makes a HUGE difference to many authors, which is why so many people keep going to them. Ultimately, there are still happy people with them, who get their books, and their royalties, so I won't completely retract my statements even though I wouldn't recommend an author seek them out over other printing sources.

Marian Perera · Sep 3, 2010

Terie said:
With all due respect, I completely disagree that these are good reasons to use PA. They are excellent reasons to choose self-publishing, but with PA's excessively high cover price ($29.95 seems to be the current MINIMUM) and poor quality, not to mention ridiculous shipping prices and incredibly slow turnaround on orders (6 weeks and more, we keep hearing), and add to that the problems with PA books not actually being even 'available' on the online bookseller sites for the past 6 months...

Not to mention the stock image covers and the inappropriate advertisements.

James D. Macdonald · Sep 3, 2010

Cathy C said:
Now, before anyone gets the idea that this site does nothing except bash PA, I want to publicly state that there ARE times when PublishAmerica can be useful and beneficial as a publisher for certain authors. ...

Even then, the insane prices make PA a poor choice: Who wants to pay $34.95 for a family history?

Perhaps if you want to avoid the entire format-text-and-find-a-cover that Lulu would require, and you're willing to pay more-than-premium prices for this "free" service. Even then, hiring a local high school student for the price of a pizza will give you a result that looks as good as PA's, with a far lower cover price (and the knowledge that royalties will actually be paid).

PA's haphazard royalty payments make use of their POD service for a fundraiser iffy.

Adobedragon · Sep 3, 2010

With all due respect, I completely disagree that these are good reasons to use PA. They are excellent reasons to choose self-publishing, but with PA's excessively high cover price ($29.95 seems to be the current MINIMUM) and poor quality, not to mention ridiculous shipping prices and incredibly slow turnaround on orders (6 weeks and more, we keep hearing), and add to that the problems with PA books not actually being even 'available' on the online bookseller sites for the past 6 months, I don't think there's EVER a good reason to choose PA.

That's my take on the matter too. A friend of mine uses BLURB to make books for his grandchildren. I'm not a huge fan of 3-D modeling software, but he produces absolutely darling illustrations with it. And his stories are hilarious.

But...I digress.

My point is that it costs him nothing to upload and set up his books. BLURB's books are a little pricey, but they are look gorgeous. This site offers a preview function. And he's never had any trouble getting orders sent in a timely manner. He also uses BLURB to produce portfolios for he and his wife's art.

I'm not endorsing BLURB, but it's seems like a much better means of producing a few books for a select audience than PA.

I think CreateSpace also has free setup options and may be a better approach for text-only books.

The only thing PA offers is the "free" cover design, which as Queen of Swords notes, doesn't amount to much.

Scribble10 · Sep 3, 2010

I will say something nice about PA. They are masters of the advertising word game. That’s it! My one and only nice comment…

CatSlave · Sep 3, 2010

Ol' Fashioned Girl said:
The link in this thread is still active... best money I ever spent. If you've got $99 and really want your rights back, it's the way to go. Quick, relatively painless, and you can move on.

And PA wins; they got your money, which is all they wanted in the first place.

merrihiatt · Sep 3, 2010

And PA wins; they got your money, which is all they wanted in the first place.

PA only wins if their authors stop writing because of their experience. I paid the $99, so I may have lost one battle, but I won the war. That's good enough for me.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that paying to get your rights returned is the best option for everyone; however, it was the best option for me.

Welcome, Scribble10!

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Sep 3, 2010

CatSlave said:
And PA wins; they got your money, which is all they wanted in the first place.

Yup. In my case, it was $49, but they've removed that link.

It's worth it to not have to fret and fuss with it any more. I'm not constantly sending them emails requesting my rights back; I'm not being completely and utterly ignored any longer; and my real-world, honest-to-goodness hard-working agent has all three of my historicals to sell. I no longer get their five+ emails a day trying to sell me my own book. I no longer appear on their website. PA can now go straight to hell without that MS tangled in its web and I can, eventually, forget we ever crossed paths and swords.

It was better than spending it on cigarettes and booze, junk food, or an afternoon at the movies with Ol' Boy, one large Coke and a small popcorn.

CatSlave · Sep 3, 2010

I should add that I am NOT a PA author, so it's easy for me to say "Don't send them any money, ever, for anything."
My stance is that the only way to hurt them is financially, to starve them to death.

But I can understand an author wanting their rights back now, instead of waiting for the contract to end.

merrihiatt · Sep 3, 2010

Starving them to death financially is the best way to shut them down and you're right that the best way to do that is not to give PA any money at all. If all PA authors stopped purchasing their books, PA would go belly-up.

Welcome PublishAmerica Authors - Make this thread the first one you read here!

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

Writing! Writing! Writing!

So many WIPs which one to work on

Brian Boru

Writing! Writing! Writing!

aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan

Hand? What hand?

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Writer is as Writer does

Mostly Harmless

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

starting over

Your Genial Uncle

Mah tale iz draggin.

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Hand? What hand?

Mah tale iz draggin.

Writing! Writing! Writing!