Best way to retain IP?

Klazart · Jun 10, 2010

Okay, this topic might seem counter-intuitive as NMS has stated in the past, what screenwriters DO is sell rights.

So let me lay out the context a little.

Say I've written a screenplay like Ironman. I'm talking an original sci-fi action-adventure set in the present day or near present day. Kind of a super hero movie but not really.

I understand off the bat that there are very few people who can green light something that would be a big budget production of that kind. (lets assume for a second it's good enough to get made, otherwise the argument is moot).

But what if I want to keep the rights to the IP? As in sequels, books, graphic novels etc.

I'm guessing this is impossible or next to impossible as no one is going to buy the screenplay just to make the first film from a nobody?

In that case, is it best to try and produce a graphic novel of the story first? Or maybe try and sell a different screenplay first and keep this one in the bank till I have the contacts and status (right we all dream don't we)?

I guess what I'm saying is that if Rowling had written Harry Potter as a screenplay rather than a novel, she'd have sold it for 50k(or less) to some prod co and that would have been that?

What if this is my "harry potter," story? Hoping for some illumination and advice from people in the know.

nmstevens · Jun 10, 2010

Klazart said:
Okay, this topic might seem counter-intuitive as NMS has stated in the past, what screenwriters DO is sell rights.

So let me lay out the context a little.

Say I've written a screenplay like Ironman. I'm talking an original sci-fi action-adventure set in the present day or near present day. Kind of a super hero movie but not really.

I understand off the bat that there are very few people who can green light something that would be a big budget production of that kind. (lets assume for a second it's good enough to get made, otherwise the argument is moot).

But what if I want to keep the rights to the IP? As in sequels, books, graphic novels etc.

I'm guessing this is impossible or next to impossible as no one is going to buy the screenplay just to make the first film from a nobody?

In that case, is it best to try and produce a graphic novel of the story first? Or maybe try and sell a different screenplay first and keep this one in the bank till I have the contacts and status (right we all dream don't we)?

I guess what I'm saying is that if Rowling had written Harry Potter as a screenplay rather than a novel, she'd have sold it for 50k(or less) to some prod co and that would have been that?

What if this is my "harry potter," story? Hoping for some illumination and advice from people in the know.

You always have the option of writing whatever it is that you want in whatever form you want and then trying to sell it in that form.

So if you want to try to write your work as a novel and then try to sell that, and then attempt to sell the movie rights to the novel rather than selling the screenplay, you can certainly do it.

But it's not as if it's easier to write and sell a novel and then, having written it, then sell it a second time, to a studio or a production company.

And if you do manage to sell the rights, you shouldn't think, unless this turns out to be an enormous best seller (and how many science fiction novels were enormous best sellers last year that went on to become feature films?) that you would have any leverage in terms of being able to write the screenplay, given that you don't have any experience as a screenwriter.

Under the best possible circumstances, they might agree to pay you to do a "pass" on the screenplay which, while you're busily writing away at it, they'd be working up the list of actual experienced screenwriters from which they'll pick the real screenwriter who'll really write the screenplay after you submit the draft that they don't even intend to read.

You can also write it as a script for a graphic novel and try to sell that.

However, just as a point of interest, in much the same way that the movie business is in deep financial trouble these days, ditto for the comics business. Companies are closing left and right and it's getting really tough for beginners to break in.

Can you do it and retain the rights? To some extent. Most commonly -- especially since the company that you'd be doing business with would expect to make a substantial investment up front on the artwork (because artists want to get paid) -- you wouldn't expect to get anything in the way of an advance (as you generally do with a novel sale), and you'd also end up having to share the rights. You'd get a percentage of the rights and the company would get a percentage. And if the work ultimately sold for a movie adaptation -- same deal. You and the Graphic Novel company would share those rights and the proceeds as well.

Of course, if you're an artist or if you partner with an artist and can thus deliver a finished product to a company so their investment up front is less, you might be able to strike a different deal -- but I wouldn't count on it. They want rights because that's really how they make money -- and very often these companies, especially these smaller independent companies, live on marginal profits -- so however much they may love and respect artists in principle, they need to make business deals that keep them alive financially.

And, of course, presuming that you write it as a graphic novel and it sells and is successful and attracts the attention of a studio and gets bought -- same deal as with a novel. Almost certainly someone else will write the screenplay. You won't be involved in the writing of it or in the movie.

You'd just have to make do with all that dirty money.

NMS

Klazart · Jun 11, 2010

nmstevens said:
You always have the option of writing whatever it is that you want in whatever form you want and then trying to sell it in that form.

So if you want to try to write your work as a novel and then try to sell that, and then attempt to sell the movie rights to the novel rather than selling the screenplay, you can certainly do it.

But it's not as if it's easier to write and sell a novel and then, having written it, then sell it a second time, to a studio or a production company.

And if you do manage to sell the rights, you shouldn't think, unless this turns out to be an enormous best seller (and how many science fiction novels were enormous best sellers last year that went on to become feature films?) that you would have any leverage in terms of being able to write the screenplay, given that you don't have any experience as a screenwriter.

Under the best possible circumstances, they might agree to pay you to do a "pass" on the screenplay which, while you're busily writing away at it, they'd be working up the list of actual experienced screenwriters from which they'll pick the real screenwriter who'll really write the screenplay after you submit the draft that they don't even intend to read.

You can also write it as a script for a graphic novel and try to sell that.

However, just as a point of interest, in much the same way that the movie business is in deep financial trouble these days, ditto for the comics business. Companies are closing left and right and it's getting really tough for beginners to break in.

Can you do it and retain the rights? To some extent. Most commonly -- especially since the company that you'd be doing business with would expect to make a substantial investment up front on the artwork (because artists want to get paid) -- you wouldn't expect to get anything in the way of an advance (as you generally do with a novel sale), and you'd also end up having to share the rights. You'd get a percentage of the rights and the company would get a percentage. And if the work ultimately sold for a movie adaptation -- same deal. You and the Graphic Novel company would share those rights and the proceeds as well.

Of course, if you're an artist or if you partner with an artist and can thus deliver a finished product to a company so their investment up front is less, you might be able to strike a different deal -- but I wouldn't count on it. They want rights because that's really how they make money -- and very often these companies, especially these smaller independent companies, live on marginal profits -- so however much they may love and respect artists in principle, they need to make business deals that keep them alive financially.

And, of course, presuming that you write it as a graphic novel and it sells and is successful and attracts the attention of a studio and gets bought -- same deal as with a novel. Almost certainly someone else will write the screenplay. You won't be involved in the writing of it or in the movie.

You'd just have to make do with all that dirty money.

NMS

Thanks for taking the time to reply NMS.

A lot of that stuff is kinda depressing, but it's also eye opening and it's better to know what you're getting into off the bat. I suppose dirty money is better than no money.

The idea that they wouldn't even read the original screenplay on which the graphic novel would be based is pretty crazy. But I guess that's how it is.

I've actually done a fair bit of research into the graphic novel thing and it turns out that self-publishing isn't really a stigma in the medium and is in fact quite common. You're right the deals that comic companies expect from a creator give them pretty much all the rights, so that would defeat the purpose of the exercise. So I intend to self-publish which can be done for about 5-10k(printing) if you can find an artist.

Luckily, I've found an incredibly talented one who is keen on the project, but progress is a little slow and if he decides to bail half-way I'll be back to square one.

So maybe I should just concentrate on perfecting the screenplay, sending it out and hope it's good enough to get me a decent deal.

Thanks again.

nmstevens · Jun 11, 2010

Klazart said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply NMS.

A lot of that stuff is kinda depressing, but it's also eye opening and it's better to know what you're getting into off the bat. I suppose dirty money is better than no money.

The idea that they wouldn't even read the original screenplay on which the graphic novel would be based is pretty crazy. But I guess that's how it is.

I've actually done a fair bit of research into the graphic novel thing and it turns out that self-publishing isn't really a stigma in the medium and is in fact quite common. You're right the deals that comic companies expect from a creator give them pretty much all the rights, so that would defeat the purpose of the exercise. So I intend to self-publish which can be done for about 5-10k(printing) if you can find an artist.

Luckily, I've found an incredibly talented one who is keen on the project, but progress is a little slow and if he decides to bail half-way I'll be back to square one.

So maybe I should just concentrate on perfecting the screenplay, sending it out and hope it's good enough to get me a decent deal.

Thanks again.

I have to give you a real warning about the self-publishing route, and it's the same warning that I would necessarily give anybody who goes down the self-producing route.

First, you may put a lot of effort into it and end up with something that's only three-quarter or nine-tenths done. However wonderful everybody is, and however talented everybody is -- things can fall apart for all sorts of reasons, creative, personal, and financial, along the way.

Your very talented friend may get a paying job and suddenly -- he's gone. Gone for months and months can turn into a year and more than a year and suddenly you wake up one morning and realize that it's forever.

That happens.

And more than that, as with any project like it, there's an upside and a downside with going with an existing company. Yes, they expect to share in the rights (though not necessarily to take all of them -- it depends on the company) - but they bring money to the table and they bring contacts and they bring marketing expertise. You don't have any of those things.

They can launch a book, publicize it, get reviews. Potentially get it into stores. You can't.

Or at any rate, it's much, much harder for you to do that.

So, again -- there are pluses and minuses to everything. The trick is to decide what it is that you really want and to aim for that -- not aim to do something else in order to do the something that you want.

That is, if what you want is to write screenplays, don't write a novel or write a graphic novel or make a movie in order to facilitate that end. That's because you're going to be competing with thousands of people for whom writing a novel or a graphic novel or making a movie *is* the end for which they are competing. It's not just a means to an end for them. It is the the place they want to be.

All their heart and soul and efforts are being expended on doing that thing. They don't view it as a stopping point on the way to something.

So there's a good chance that a bunch of those people are going to be doing it better than you.

If your passion is writing screenplays, stick to that. Yeah, the rights situation sort of sucks, but that's life. As somebody once said in a movie, "This is the life we choose."

NMS

Klazart · Jun 11, 2010

Yeah your probably right. I'm jumping around too much. So far, I've written two novels (okay the first one was the first thing of any length I'd written and was understandably horrible) and about 4 screenplays.

I've studied a lot during that time and am still learning a lot, which is great. But I guess its time to pick a horse and take a risk.

I mean, yeah it's sad, there are more stories I want to tell in the universe I've created with this latest screenplay. Besides, I guess if I manage to get 500k(and I realise how unrealistic even that is) for it (what you got for your first spec), then that will pay for a house, which would be well worth it I'm sure, and it's not like it's the ONLY story I have to tell.

But I'm just wondering what would have happened if the Wachoiski brothers had just sold the Matrix to WB. Of course I can't direct, and I know it, so that's not really comparable... still.

Best way to retain IP?

Klazart

nmstevens

What happened?

Klazart

nmstevens

What happened?

Klazart