Line between YA and mainstream?

fenroyal said:

I have read a variety of novels throughout my life, both those considered Young Adult and those classified as mainstream fiction/fantasy/etc. I'm trying to figure out what defines YA as compared to other novels, and none of the criteria I'm thinking of really apply.

There are YA novels with semi-explicit sexual content, as well as all manner of violence, etc., so it's not like a rating system like that of movies. The only other thing I could really think of that made sense was either by intended audience--which seems silly, because my intended audience would be anyone, young or old, who wants to read my novel--or by the reading/vocabulary level it's written in, but to be honest, I wouldn't "dumb down" my writing for a YA novel. So can anyone define this distinction for me?

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First of all, YA versus Adult is all about marketing terms. And many books could technically be classified as both, so it comes down to how it will be most marketable. So, when a book is marketed as YA, it is a book that the publisher thinks will be marketable successfully to teens. But it is a marketing classification. Now, to address the question:

Head over to the YA forum and look at the stickies - there are several that will address aspects of this issue. And if you scroll through the threads in YA, you will see threads like "Is my book YA?" and those will have aspects of this issue, as well. But, here's my short answer:

Vocabulary is irrelevant - any word in a adult book can be in a YA book if appropriate for the voice of the character.

How explicit the sex is an issue - generally it's less explicit in YA than adult, but not by much, and it varies widely within YA from books that "fade to black" and books that have more explicit descriptions.

But, it generally comes down to POV. If the POV character(s) is an adolescent (generally between 14 and 18, but there are strays over both ends, with the sweet spot at 15-17), and the story unfolds from that adolescent character's immediate POV (ie, not an adult looking back, but the events as they are experienced by that specific character with his/her life experiences to that age), and the primary conflict is one generally experienced by adolescents, it may be classified as YA.

So, I'd suggest beyond that way over-simplified generalization, head over to the Young Adult forum and read up on some of the threads - start with the stickies.

~suki

I second suki's answer - not that she needs it.

When I wrote my book I was just writing...I didn't have a specific audience in mind. As I workshopped it and learned more about the industry I realized that I'd probably written a YA novel based on the ages of my characters and the first person immediate style of the writing.

Both agents that were interested in my book confirmed this. My book is quite (to very?) violent on the scale of violence and there is some sex and adult/sexual situations, though nothing wildly explicit (I don't think). The agent I'm working with did suggest that I tone down the language a bit - which I do find a little funny considering all the violence and sex...who cares about cussing? But in the editing process I did end up toning down both the language and the violence a little.

Anyway, both those agents said pretty much exactly what suki said, because of the age of my two protagonists and the way the writing presented itself, it was definitely a YA novel.

In some ways this is great for me (er, my book), because YA is such a nice wide open category - books about zombies are shelved next to books about a death in the family - which is good because my book is one of those kind of 'on the edge of two categories things'.

Even though lots of adults love YA, the market is not the same. YA books are aimed at YA readers. The plots frequently involve some coming of age or growth that is different from an adult novel. YA characters "grow up" vs adult characters that "grow" if that makes sense. YA deals a lot with common issue teens face, and those are things that adults have overcome long ago, so you don't see plots revolving around those in adult novels. YA tends to be more immediate and faster paced. There's a sense of things happening in the now.

YA has teen protags, and the problems facing them are relevant to teen issues and solved in teen ways. Adult novels can also have teen protags, but the content is different, and the problem and the ways to solve that problem are more adult focused. Kids are "kids" in most adult novels, where they're not in a YA novel.

Things are usually less graphic in YA, though you can do most of the things you can do in an adult novel. You just wouldn't describe it the same way or with as much detail.

And then there's voice. YA has a distinctive voice that can't really be described, you just have to read a lot of YA to spot it. It just sounds like it's written for teens.

YA novels focus around teenagers; if you turned the protagonists into adults, you would lose the whole point of the book. They're normally 'rite of passage' or 'coming of age' books.

So, here's a question. What if you have ideas for several books in the same 'world', if you will, and the main characters in some are adults and the main characters in others are teens. One book deals with teen issues in a very teen way and in another book, the issues are much more adult and handled accordingly? I'm kind of struggling with this issue. Assuming I'm hoping to some day publish as an ongoing series within the same world, should I be aiming to keep everything in one market or is crossing markets like that okay? Does it matter? (Yes, I've taken into account that they may never publish anyway...)

FalconStorm said:

So, here's a question. What if you have ideas for several books in the same 'world', if you will, and the main characters in some are adults and the main characters in others are teens. One book deals with teen issues in a very teen way and in another book, the issues are much more adult and handled accordingly? I'm kind of struggling with this issue. Assuming I'm hoping to some day publish as an ongoing series within the same world, should I be aiming to keep everything in one market or is crossing markets like that okay? Does it matter? (Yes, I've taken into account that they may never publish anyway...)

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Ideally, series should stay within the same genre. So...I'd market them as adult if some of the books focus on adult characters. But know that if the first book focuses on the teen, you might find yourself in a quandry of agents and editors telling you the first book is YA. And then the publisher being reluctant to publish the rest of the series since it crosses genre.

~suki

They'd probably all go under YA. If you've started the story as a YA story, YA are going to be the ones that read it. In the Twilight series, Breaking Dawn was more adult in tone (but unfortunately not in writing terms). However it still went under YA.

Some adults do read YA though- there are cross-overs like the Harry Potter series.

Lady Ice said:

They'd probably all go under YA. If you've started the story as a YA story, YA are going to be the ones that read it. In the Twilight series, Breaking Dawn was more adult in tone (but unfortunately not in writing terms). However it still went under YA.

Some adults do read YA though- there are cross-overs like the Harry Potter series.

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But the OP's series, if I'm reading correctly, doesn't follow the same characters from teens to just beyond teens. The OP's series leaps to other adult characters facing adult issues. If I am reading it correctly, that changes the analysis.

While I don't think Twilight can not be a model for marektablilty, unelss the first book of the OP's series goes super-nova, for arguments, sake, the last book was arguably still about the same characters and they were, IIRC, 19-ish (at least Bella was).

But if the OP's series focuses on adult characters and adult substantive plot, instead of teen characters and adolescent plot, after the first book, it is unlikely the rest would be marketed as YA books.

And while cross-overs happen, the publishers and stores still need to know where to shelve the books. And generally like to keep series together.

So, for the OP, if most of the series is about adult characters with adult substantive issues, work to make the first book marketable to an adult audience, too. And then shop it as adult, would be my suggestion.

~suki

You're right, Suki. In one book, the main character is 24, in another book, the MC (different person) is 16. The 24 yr old MC has to deal with problems at work and a life changing mistake when she was 17 that's affecting her still. The 16 yr old has to deal with getting along with peers at school and parents that hate or neglect her. Both sets of issues seem very age oriented. And that's just two books in the series... *sigh*

Has anyone ever written one series for YA and one for adult in the same 'world'? Maybe I could start something new.... (One can always dream.)

FalconStorm said:

So, here's a question. What if you have ideas for several books in the same 'world', if you will, and the main characters in some are adults and the main characters in others are teens. One book deals with teen issues in a very teen way and in another book, the issues are much more adult and handled accordingly? I'm kind of struggling with this issue. Assuming I'm hoping to some day publish as an ongoing series within the same world, should I be aiming to keep everything in one market or is crossing markets like that okay? Does it matter? (Yes, I've taken into account that they may never publish anyway...)

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You could publish both, but keep in mind that your readers may not read both. You probably wouldn't want the adult books to rely on stuff that happened in the YA books (and vice versa) to understand the story in either market. And being in one market doesn't mean you'd be successful in the other market, as the readership wouldn't be the same, even if it was the same world. People reading your adult work who don't like YA won't read it even if they like the world and your work. And teens might not be drawn into an adult novel if it doesn't appeal to them plot wise.

There could also be some weird rights issues if you had two different publishers publishing the same world, though that's just speculation. Technically, the world would be one "property" and "belong" to the publisher, who may or may not also publish your other market.

Nothing says you can't do it though. If those are the stories that grab yo, write them.

FalconStorm said:

Has anyone ever written one series for YA and one for adult in the same 'world'? Maybe I could start something new.... (One can always dream.)

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James Paterson has a character that appears both in an adult book (so I've been told) and a YA series. But, well, he's James Patterson.

Has anyone ever written one series for YA and one for adult in the same 'world'? Maybe I could start something new.... (One can always dream.)

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Kelly Armstrong. Yep. Nothing new under the sun.