A Thought . . . .

BlackMagic528 · Feb 22, 2010

Just wondering . . . .

Suppose you were in the process of transitioning into the vyca collective, and you could tell that you were getting close to the end of the transition. Would you be at all concerned with what your final independent thought would be?

Like, would it matter to you if your final independent thought was about something profound and meaningful or if it was about, say, a cheeseburger?

Just a thought.

As usual and always, thanks in advance.

Kyle

dogfacedboy · Feb 22, 2010

I assume if you're joining the collective freely you understand the situation and you've already given up on the importance of your own independent thoughts. So I guess whatever your last thought would be is little more than a novelty.

Personally, I'd wonder if i remembered to feed the dog.

shaldna · Feb 23, 2010

I had a really bad accident about ten years ago and was nearly killed. And to this day I still remember EXACTLY how I felt and what I thought when I KNEW that there was nothing I could do.

I remember thinking that it was taking a very long time to reach the ground, and I remember wondering what that smell was (silage truck), and then how very very blue the sky was.

Nothing profound at all. Because I think in those moments it's the small, inconsequntial things that cross your mind.

BlackMagic528 · Feb 23, 2010

dogfacedboy said:
I assume if you're joining the collective freely you understand the situation and you've already given up on the importance of your own independent thoughts. So I guess whatever your last thought would be is little more than a novelty.

Personally, I'd wonder if i remembered to feed the dog.

Just as a point, she's doing it somewhat under duress, kind of the underworld equivelent to a plea bargain. I wouldn't term that exactly "freely."

Etola · Feb 23, 2010

I'm with Shaldna--it can be really strange what your mind focuses on when you know something major (and very bad) is about to happen and you can't do a thing about it.

When I was in high school, I had an accident while bike riding, and as I flew over the handlebars towards the sidewalk, I thought about how my mom was going to be mad at me, because I was about to break my glasses and they were expensive. (Granted, my mother was hardly concerned about my glasses in the grand scheme of things, but that's what I thought.)

If I were about to lose my independent thoughts somewhat against my will, and had heretofore treasured my individuality, and had ample warning that I was going to lose it, I think I'd want to spend my last moments thinking about something that is precious to me as an individual. For example, I'd probably want to think about how much I love my husband. If I were unable to focus on that because I was, say, really hungry and my thoughts kept wandering towards cheeseburgers, I think I'd be a little annoyed at myself.

dogfacedboy · Feb 23, 2010

BlackMagic528 said:
Just as a point, she's doing it somewhat under duress, kind of the underworld equivelent to a plea bargain. I wouldn't term that exactly "freely."

Well, if you're talking about someone who's not wholeheartedly giving themself up to the collective, then I guess she'd be more likely to attempt to force herself to have more profound thoughts at the 'end'. So I'd guess one's last thought would be to concentrate on something that made them happy - a loved one or treasured memory.

Or you could go the other route and have the character drive herself insane, constantly guessing, "was that my final thought? or that? will I even know? or care?"

Cool idea. Fun to think about.

defcon6000 · Feb 23, 2010

If the transformation from individual to a collective is against the MC's will, I would think they'd fight against it as long as possible - or commit suicide.

Of course, that depends if individuality is a big deal to the MC. Either they fight and hold on to every unique thought and experience they've had or yeah, think about what they wanna eat, because meh, it's going to happen.

BlackMagic528 · Feb 23, 2010

defcon6000 said:
If the transformation from individual to a collective is against the MC's will, I would think they'd fight against it as long as possible - or commit suicide.

She agreed to it, but only because the alternative was a death sentence. She committed pretty much the highest crime in the underworld books (unknowingly, but that's beside the point), and she's ridiculously lucky she was even offered a deal.

So it's against her desires, yes, but not exactly against her will. Maybe that depends on how you look at it, though.

ejkolodziej · Feb 24, 2010

i think it would matter to me... i think i would want my last thought to be of the person i love ... or of my dog hehe

defcon6000 · Feb 24, 2010

BlackMagic528 said:
She agreed to it, but only because the alternative was a death sentence. She committed pretty much the highest crime in the underworld books (unknowingly, but that's beside the point), and she's ridiculously lucky she was even offered a deal.

So it's against her desires, yes, but not exactly against her will. Maybe that depends on how you look at it, though.

So losing her individuality was better than physical death? But in a sense isn't she dying anyways (non-physically) because in the end there will be no 'her' just 'them'; she'll cease to exist. So how is that any different than death?

BlackMagic528 · Feb 25, 2010

defcon6000 said:
So losing her individuality was better than physical death? But in a sense isn't she dying anyways (non-physically) because in the end there will be no 'her' just 'them'; she'll cease to exist. So how is that any different than death?

That's - and I'm serious, not being a smart ass - pretty much a matter of opinion. The viewpoint you stated is perfectly valid. Some would say, though, that it's better to live in a collective than die altogether.

Again, it's just a matter of how one chooses to view it.

defcon6000 · Feb 25, 2010

And some would say it is better to live as a brain dead vegetable than to have the plug pulled on them.

When it comes down to it, everything is a matter of opinion, but I think most will agree that that is no life anyone wants to live... if you can even call that living.

"Living" as a collective conscience is basically a drone. How can any unit of this collective conscience have preservation instincts for itself when it has no self? Would the collective conscience care if a unit died off or would it be like bees who sacrifice themselves altruistically for the greater good? And if so, a unit's life will have a very, very low value on it, to the point that they might as well be dead.

Ultimately, both options equate to death.

Not being hard on you, but you can't possibly dismiss all this as a matter of opinion.

BlackMagic528 · Feb 25, 2010

You're not wrong.

But this character pretty much agrees with me that it's better for her to take this deal (which, incidentally, has more benefits than simply remaining among the living; it's a bit much to explain at the moment, but they are there) than to simply allow herself to die completely. Yes, a large part of her will be gone, but a good part of her will remain and be added to the collective. Therein lies a little advantage.

Canotila · Feb 25, 2010

As far as becoming part of a collective consciousness vs. dying, it would depend on the collective. If it embodied a set of values that I identified with, or somehow contributed to the well being of my world in some tangible way, I might choose to become part of that over rotting in the ground. If the collective's works were contrary to my personal beliefs, then yes I'd rather die than help further their cause.

It might make a difference how much of one's individuality is lost too. If there was any hope you could ever break free, or at least gain back some of your free thought, then that might be worth it to someone.

glutton · Feb 26, 2010

Canotila said:
If there was any hope you could ever break free, or at least gain back some of your free thought,

...or maybe infect the rest of the collective with your ideas and take over? That would be... something.

It would kind of be like the villain who dies and goes to hell only to conquer it and come back with a vengeance. It wouldn't be too hard to choose joining the collective if you managed to convince yourself you could do that (delusionally or not)...

"I will be a cancer... a virus."

Canotila · Feb 26, 2010

glutton said:
...or maybe infect the rest of the collective with your ideas and take over? That would be... something.

It would kind of be like the villain who dies and goes to hell only to conquer it and come back with a vengeance. It wouldn't be too hard to choose joining the collective if you managed to convince yourself you could do that (delusionally or not)...

"I will be a cancer... a virus."

I like the way you think.

BlackMagic528 · Feb 26, 2010

The collective is comprised of the combined minds of all the members of the collective (past and present), which would number in the tens of millions.

Yes, a significant part of her will be added to the collective (for example, she has an older brother, whom she naturally loves and views as a brother; after she's fully within the collective, now they all see him as a brother), but unfortunately not all. Some things are just lost in the transition. So, she's not going to be completely gone. She's just going to be mixed in with the rest of the collective.

That said, though, there's a concept in my writing called "ownership of the body," that basically states that only one entity can inhabit any body at any given time (with few exceptions). So, she still "owns" her body even after the transition is complete. That means that certain aspects individual to her will stay with her (ie: that she's female, so she'd be feminine - at least as much as she was; sexuality; her slight accent; etc.).

A Thought . . . .

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

dogfacedboy

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

Etola

Still looking for stars...

dogfacedboy

defcon6000

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

ejkolodziej

defcon6000

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

defcon6000

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

Canotila

Sever your leg please.

glutton

Canotila

Sever your leg please.

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)