Novel length = epub/agent??

CheekyWench · Feb 16, 2010

Here's the dilemma.

I have a MS that is approximately 58k and the story is finished... I'm in my 3nd draft and still putting in pieces here and there. I feel if I add too much more, it will be bloated or convoluted. I can't really see myself adding much more plot, dialogue, tension, etc to it but could probably get it to 60 or 65k.

I wanted to go the agent route with this one but I've been told twice in two rejections so far; it's too short for them to sell as a novel.

My question is:

Now keeping in mind, typically, a manuscript for romance is approximately 70-90k words, right?

Would you keep going with finding an agent?

Would you figure, this work is more of a long novella and try for e-pubs, (since from what I've gathered, are more open to shorter lengths? )

Or would you step back and try to weasel out another 15k?

K. Taylor · Feb 16, 2010

If you got it to 65K, they'd probably be looking at your story more than your length. And yes, e-pubs are more flexible in lengths they accept. You might want to have a couple betas read the story, though...maybe your 58K is just a taut story, or maybe you've breezed past some story points that might improve it if it's more fleshed out? Might be a good idea to make sure you haven't made it a bit too easy on your MCs before trying out more agents.

(This comes from someone who writes short in first drafts, so I feel you on needing to get to more acceptable word counts.)

CheekyWench · Feb 16, 2010

K. Taylor said:
If you got it to 65K, they'd probably be looking at your story more than your length. And yes, e-pubs are more flexible in lengths they accept. You might want to have a couple betas read the story, though...maybe your 58K is just a taut story, or maybe you've breezed past some story points that might improve it if it's more fleshed out? Might be a good idea to make sure you haven't made it a bit too easy on your MCs before trying out more agents.

(This comes from someone who writes short in first drafts, so I feel you on needing to get to more acceptable word counts.)

Thanks, K. I've just printed the whole thing out again and within the first paragraph I'm adding in another few lines for clarity... So I'm thinking, you're right in needing another fresh pair of eyes and I may just be overlooking things.

Appreciate the feedback!

jana13k · Feb 17, 2010

Single title romances are "mostly" 85k-100k words. If your work fits into category romance, those run 55k-80k, depending on line.

Cathy C · Feb 17, 2010

CheekyWench said:
and within the first paragraph I'm adding in another few lines for clarity... So I'm thinking, you're right in needing another fresh pair of eyes and I may just be overlooking things.

As you read each scene concentrate on the six senses (and yes, SIX is intended here.) Does the world around the MC exist on the page or only in the filmstrip running in your mind? Is s/he touching items, smelling scents in the room, tasting---whether wanting food or remembering food just eaten, and feeling emotions (the sixth sense, for a book) as s/he talks or does things? Our senses help us react to the world around us. Have you ever walked in a room and smelled metal burning---like electrical wiring about to start a fire? How about fresh flowers? Okay, if you have the very same conversation in a room with one stimuli, will the thoughts and emotions be very different than in a room with the other?

Of course they will.

Make sure those guideposts are there for the reader to experience too. That will beef up your scenes for all the right reasons and you'll find that 15K is nothing at all. A sentence here, a paragraph there, and the reader will become enveloped in a story that matches how it appears in your mind.

*RomanceWriter* · Feb 17, 2010

Cathy C said:
As you read each scene concentrate on the six senses (and yes, SIX is intended here.) Does the world around the MC exist on the page or only in the filmstrip running in your mind? Is s/he touching items, smelling scents in the room, tasting---whether wanting food or remembering food just eaten, and feeling emotions (the sixth sense, for a book) as s/he talks or does things? Our senses help us react to the world around us. Have you ever walked in a room and smelled metal burning---like electrical wiring about to start a fire? How about fresh flowers? Okay, if you have the very same conversation in a room with one stimuli, will the thoughts and emotions be very different than in a room with the other?

Of course they will.

Make sure those guideposts are there for the reader to experience too. That will beef up your scenes for all the right reasons and you'll find that 15K is nothing at all. A sentence here, a paragraph there, and the reader will become enveloped in a story that matches how it appears in your mind.

Great post, Cathy!! As a writer, you really have to remember that the reader can't see/feel what you do as you write. You really have to show them.

CheekyWench · Feb 17, 2010

Cathy C said:
As you read each scene concentrate on the six senses (and yes, SIX is intended here.) Does the world around the MC exist on the page or only in the filmstrip running in your mind? Is s/he touching items, smelling scents in the room, tasting---whether wanting food or remembering food just eaten, and feeling emotions (the sixth sense, for a book) as s/he talks or does things? Our senses help us react to the world around us. Have you ever walked in a room and smelled metal burning---like electrical wiring about to start a fire? How about fresh flowers? Okay, if you have the very same conversation in a room with one stimuli, will the thoughts and emotions be very different than in a room with the other?

Of course they will.

Make sure those guideposts are there for the reader to experience too. That will beef up your scenes for all the right reasons and you'll find that 15K is nothing at all. A sentence here, a paragraph there, and the reader will become enveloped in a story that matches how it appears in your mind.

Thanks so much, Cathy. This helps a lot!

I've printed it out and I'm going through it one page at a time with my red pen alongside my Word doc. This way, I have it right there and ready to fix, instead of going through the entire print with red pen, then just "fixing" what I've marked later when I'm detached from the scene.

CheekyWench · Feb 17, 2010

*RomanceWriter* said:
Great post, Cathy!! As a writer, you really have to remember that the reader can't see/feel what you do as you write. You really have to show them.

Yep. And now I'm seeing some things where I've got it in my head, but reading it doesn't describe it perfectly.
Thanks

Spring · Feb 17, 2010

Cathy, I really like what you wrote. Thanks!

Good luck, CW!

CheekyWench · Feb 17, 2010

Thanks, Spring!

Susan Gable · Feb 17, 2010

jana13k said:
Single title romances are "mostly" 85k-100k words. If your work fits into category romance, those run 55k-80k, depending on line.

Actually, these days, the cap on category, at least as far as HQ is concerned, is 65K, using computer word count. And that's for Super. (Although my editor does allow me to run over a bit, knowing that she's going to really cut it back once she gets her hands on it.)

Susan G.

CheekyWench · Feb 17, 2010

Well, this particular one isn't category, unless they've slipped in a new theme of historical steampunk and I missed the memo

but thanks for the information!

Deb Kinnard · Feb 17, 2010

I also "write short" in first draft. My novel at the left was originally about 80K; in its published version it will be 97K. I find lots of "stuff" both to cut and to add, when I go through a second and third draft.

Since it's steampunk, I'm assuming you've hit the websites of those houses that handle steampunk, and seen what their length criteria are? Just wondering, 'cause I didn't see up above that you'd done so.

Novel length = epub/agent??

CheekyWench

O.o

K. Taylor

Bah Humbug

CheekyWench

O.o

jana13k

Yep. I can.

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

RomanceWriter

New kid, be gentle!

CheekyWench

O.o

CheekyWench

O.o

Spring

Little Miss Sunshine

CheekyWench

O.o

Susan Gable

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

CheekyWench

O.o

Deb Kinnard