agent or lawyer?

I am really new at this so this is just my opinion, but a lawyer (in my eyes) has been for advice and helping you with contracts and such. I don't think I have ever seen a lawyer do what an agent does. An agent is the guy making contacts. Now if you had all your own contacts then a lawyer would make sense because they could make sure your contracts were on the up and up, but I don't really see how they could replace an agent.

Maybe Joe will know.

There are entertainment lawyers who shops scripts around for you. And a lot of agents used to be lawyers.

Wow, cool. Didn't know that. Kill two birds with one stone.

the necessity for screenwriters vs novel writers to have a lawyer or an agent may not be the same. if you are a screenwriter then you should have an agent first, then a lawyer b/c your agent needs to find a buyer before you need the lawyer for the sale.

Quick definitions.

Managers manages your career. He has contacts or makes contacts with agents and producers and introduces you to them. He almost always has fewer clients than an agent and can give you more time as such. He is a mentor to bounce ideas off of and see if they are marketable. They know a lot of the little fish (producers) and troll for contacts where ever they can find them. Managers also look for writing assigments and other money making oportunities. The take anywhere from 5% to 15%, usually 10%

Agents manage your work. He/she takes your individual scripts and gets them to the right people. Agents, especially larger ones, tend to have more studio connections and tend to also rep actors, directors as well which is a bigger contact list to get your workout there. Some do read your WIP and advise but most do not have timeor inclination to do so, unless your really established and have a relationship. They do and can negotiate a contract for you. They get 10% by law.

Laywers negotiate the contract. Some have connections and can get your work out there. None will mentor your your career as far as I know. Some work on an hourly rate ($100 to $300 and hour with the avarage contract costing you anywhere from a couple of hundred to a few thousand) some and/or take a percentage, usually around 10%

There's much more to this, but this is a generalized explaination.

A few good books to read:

How the Writer got Screwed
Breakfast with Sharks

I just came across a rather interesting discussion of the 'Agent .v. Manager' - from the point of view of Producers.

One beautiful quote :

[The manager] ... more often than not is given the pacifying title of co-producer to justify his position, much to the chagrin of the Agent - who in this modern era may well have not only represented the artist in obtaining the role with a sizeable fee, but quite possibly packaged all the other major creative elements for the picture, only to then find the manager pull rank and become a glorified irritant rather than a bona fide Producer there to support the film and the Agent.

A diplomatic Fred Gaines was discreet to the extreme, in trying to explain the role and influence of this superfluous character. Annabel Sheehan and Kate Richter were quick to stress that such a role did not exist in Australia, because there wasn't the financial infrastructure within the budgets to accommodate such a person, but they had enough personal experience of it outside of Australia to be thankful that it was not a problem in Australia. Yet.

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See: http://www.spaa.org.au/display_news_item.cfm?item=809&dx=e7281R

It doesn't sound like independant producers are particularly fond of 'managers' !

Mac

no one should be concerned about what percentage any of them get. what your main concern is who can get your script in front of the right producer. an agent is much more likely b/c that is there job. you don't need a lawyer until someone want to purchase your script and even then the agent may be all you need to get the right deal made. the larger agencies may be self contained with their own lawyers anyway.

Is...?

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Joe, but in California, Florida, North Carolina and New York, at least, managers can not (legally/technically) negotiate a SAG sig contract on behalf of his or her client. Agents can. So can lawyers of course.

In looking at what was sold during August, I noticed that more than half of the writers were represented by a combination of managers, agents and lawyers. Not sure why it would take three, but I can guess.

Should have added

In case someone doesn't know about "them," here's the URL;


http://www.scriptsales.com/DDScriptSales.htm

here's the thing

anyone can call themselves a manager. but agents and lawyers must be licensed. managers have negotiating power and may have access power but you will eventually need a lawyer or an agent (who can produce contracts) along with a manager.

choosing between the three should be determined by what your needs are at the moment. ie - a manager can attach actors, directors, executive producers, etc... to your project. and agent's job is to sell your script and/or find you writing assignments.

Where are all those guys? They're like ghosts. Everybody swears to have seen one but nobody can produce a real one. Everybody is looking for them. Some people become one when they can't find one. I wonder why none of those guys ever participate in discussion forums. I'd like to talk to one of them there ghosts and ask them wheere they hang out.

Managers don't necessarily do attachments (some do). Sometimes they just shop your screenplay around town. If the manager gets you an offer, the manager will refer you to an agent.

Most states do not have literary agents. In the state of California, the agents representing screenwriters must work for an agency licensed and bonded by the state of California.

In the main states that have worthwhile agents, California and New York, agents typically spent some time working as agent trainees or assistants before finally becoming agents.

You cannot just declare yourself an agent and make sales. People who attempt this won't even know how to tell the difference between a good script, and a bad one, are unlikely to have sufficient contacts to submit, and even if they submitted since no one knows their names their scripts would likely end up on the slush pile.

prey

so, when people get ready to send in scripts, do they just send 'em in to the studio or get an agent or manager first?

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newbies should not send their scripts to studios. it'll only end up in the trash. you should get an agent first but, you can send your scripts to a production company without an agent. however, most production companies will not take it unless you have an agent. in fact, most production companies will not take any unsolicited materials....only referrals which are hard to get. you have to know somebody who's somebody

know that each company has their own submission policy. there are many ways to submit your work. find out what it is and follow it to keep your script from ending up in the trash.

preyer said:

for what it's worth, do a search on 'literary agents' and any state, and you'll find results. maybe not in a state like wyoming (though i'm sure there are). again, that's literary agents, which, like i said, just to have to declare themselves agents. not saying they're worth a damn, of course. agents in new york or california may have certain criteria, but those places aren't the norm.

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Literary agents out of Los Angeles (with the rare exception of New York) essentially never makes sales in the film industry.

JustinoXXV said:

Literary agents out of Los Angeles (with the rare exception of New York) essentially never makes sales in the film industry.

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Tell that to Enigma, whose agent I believe is down south. I do beleive he had an option or sale recently.

Joe Calabrese said:

Tell that to Enigma, whose agent I believe is down south. I do beleive he had an option or sale recently.

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Joe, an exception is not the rule.

The above scenario is so rare I don't know why you even mentioned it.

If you want a career in the mainstream, Hollywood scene, you will need a Los Angeles agent. Period.

Mind you, I could live in Kansas, and my rich neighbor could decide he is a producer. I could come up with an option agreement or sale with him. Doesn't mean the movie will be made, doesn't mean it will be distributed, and it doesn't mean said writer has a career.

I sometimes think you avoid the truth on things which you think are negative, harsh, mean, etc. But I think it's important to tell the truth, period. Read any industry trades (Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Script Sales, etc). In them you'll see that agents out of LA almost never make sales to Hollywood (most of the excepts are New York exceptions).

Outside of LA (and to a lesser degree NY), in the US most production companies make industrial films, commercials, educational films, etc. Some do dabble in indie production, but comparatively few succeed in it. And they typically won't be able to pay writers much money.

I obviously know as well as any of you that getting a LA agent is difficult. But if you ever want to step into the major leagues as a screenwriter, it has to be done.

Partly right

Joe Calabrese said:

Tell that to Enigma, whose agent I believe is down south. I do beleive he had an option or sale recently.

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Thanks a lot, Joe!

Why am I embarrassed?



You're right, where the instigator lives, at least when it comes to feature and MOWs, doesn't matter.

It’s a given: to get anything happening always begins with qualified and experienced investors.

INSTIGATORS, hungry producers and/or agents, and/or managers, and/or even writers, must, sooner or later, find and pitch those people, and more often than not, they don’t live (corporately) in California - nor do they give a rat’s *** where the instigator sleeps (most of the time).

A clue? Check out where most feature productions are chartered, and where the agent of record (not the assigned sub-agent) resides.

Think of it like Wall Street in New York. That’s the central point of the financial universe, but the people who drive the stock market, investors, live all over the world, even down south. New York gets all the credit, however. Same here; "Hollywood" gets the credit simply because everything (but the money) gets filtered through there, plus so many of them congregate there for other reasons, mainly television, production facilities and the corporations who do distribution gotta be somewhere.

Justenio, before you go ballastic, television is a different dog in a different race.

On point

JustinoXXV said:

... Mind you, I could live in Kansas, and my rich neighbor could decide he is a producer. I could come up with an option agreement or sale with him. Doesn't mean the movie will be made, doesn't mean it will be distributed, and it doesn't mean said writer has a career...

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With that post, you sure bounced around like a golf ball hit in a tile bathroom.

Let's say we both have good scripts. You'll insist your's is better. Okay, maybe it is. Anyway, you have a hotshot Hollywood agent who even drives a Rolls Royce and has a nice place on the Pacific Coast Highway, and you live in LA and I live here in the cool, relaxing mountains of north Georgia and may or may not have a manager, but I come loaded with a few million in an escrow account and you don't (maybe because you moved away from your rich neighbor in Kansas and lost touch).

Which script is more likely to get an audience?

Oh, Kansas is a nice state, except when it gets windy in the Spring, and during football season, when they're not on NCAA probation.

Enigma said:

With that post, you sure bounced around like a golf ball hit in a tile bathroom.

Let's say we both have good scripts. You'll insist your's is better. Okay, maybe it is. Anyway, you have a hotshot Hollywood agent who even drives a Rolls Royce and has a nice place on the Pacific Coast Highway, and you live in LA and I live here in the cool, relaxing mountains of north Georgia and may or may not have a manager, but I come loaded with a few million in an escrow account and you don't (maybe because you moved away from your rich neighbor in Kansas and lost touch).

Which script is more likely to get an audience?

Oh, Kansas is a nice state, except when it gets windy in the Spring, and during football season, when they're not on NCAA probation.

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If all otherthings were equal, you. However, if my script was better than yours and if I had a track record of boz office hits, my audience would be greater.

However, the LA established screenwriter is on social networks and will have ties to actors, directors, producers, studio execs that an outsider from Georgia will not.

When film companies raise money (they have a variety of ways of doing this), yes, of course they look for investors from all around the world. However, the average investors likely doesn't want to be the controling force in the film. Most will not have sufficient knowledge to do so. Likewise, though shareholders in publically traded companies can vote on certain issues, generally major decisions are left to the CEO.

What does this mean? Most investors are passive. They want people who know the biz to make money for them.

And what do you mean by most featured productions? Oh, there are a ton of movies made (features) that are never distributed. There are also a ton of movies made (which are distributed) that were done by the screenwriter/director/producer.

Along those lines, you, in the North Hills of Georga (using your example), assuming you have the funds, could easily make your won movie. It has better be good to get in a festival or to get distribution.

Most movies made outside LA (even in New York and in London) are made by screenwriter/director/producer. Many of these movies do okay but that's neither here nor there. Still, a lot of writer/director/producers in New York or elsewhere out of LA have to take non industry day jobs in order to survive.

If you want to make a career solely as a screenwriter, Los Angeles is essentially the only place that has pure screenwriters (people who just have film writing assignments and/or sell specs). And essentially all of the agents you need are there.

For the actual investment banking work and the actual film work, it's concentrated in NY and in LA because those industries need concentrations of trained talent to function, and the businesses work better that way. You are unlikely to find many equities underwriters or special effects people in the hills of North Georgia.

I'm equating screenwriter with A list writer (the Simon Kinburg's, the David Koepps, the John August's, the Joss Whedon's, and the Susannah Grants.) People at this level (at the top of the film industry) are only found in LA.

JustinoXXV said:

Joe, an exception is not the rule.

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Listen. In a perfect world, we would all live on Hollywood blvd, only look to be repped by ICM or WM, only talk to major studios and never even consider any deal worth less than a million.

The reality is that this is not a perfect world. People live in all parts of the country and cannot or will not move to the Industry Meccas for a variety of reasons. That is not to say they will never live in LA, but just not now. So what are they to do as a struggling writer trying to get noticed and some work?

A struggling writer will get any agent or manager that can further their dream/career, even if it only marginally better than having no representation. When they hit it big (or even medium) they can get a new rep. Agents and managers are not for life afterall.

A struggling writer will sell a script for less than scale is it will lead to more work, notoriety, credibility and reputation as a professional. They can get picky when they become the next Goldman, Black or Mamet.

Just because it doesn't fit in your neat little box called "norm" shouldn't be discounted. The alternative it to sit around waiting for Universal (and only Universal) to read and buy your great American screenplay. I assure you it will be a very, very, long wait indeed.

Joe Calabrese said:

Listen. In a perfect world, we would all live on Hollywood blvd, only look to be repped by ICM or WM, only talk to major studios and never even consider any deal worth less than a million.

The reality is that this is not a perfect world. People live in all parts of the country and cannot or will not move to the Industry Meccas for a variety of reasons. That is not to say they will never live in LA, but just not now. So what are they to do as a struggling writer trying to get noticed and some work?

A struggling writer will get any agent or manager that can further their dream/career, even if it only marginally better than having no representation. When they hit it big (or even medium) they can get a new rep. Agents and managers are not for life afterall.

A struggling writer will sell a script for less than scale is it will lead to more work, notoriety, credibility and reputation as a professional. They can get picky when they become the next Goldman, Black or Mamet.

Just because it doesn't fit in your neat little box called "norm" shouldn't be discounted. The alternative it to sit around waiting for Universal (and only Universal) to read and buy your great American screenplay. I assure you it will be a very, very, long wait indeed.

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I have never suggested that a writer not do an indie deal if the opportunity presented itself. I did say, however, if you expect to support yourself as a working screenwriter (that means without a day job, and without also directing and producing) then the LA film industry is the only one that allows you that. And to do business there you need LA representation.