To write or not to write...

my take is that you should include lyrics if they have a place, make a statement, something significant to the mood or theme or a point someone is trying to make..etc.
however, you could also refer to the lyrics in a more generic way by making them generic, if needed to fill the moment or create a mood, "Sue dried the dishes to the beat of 'obi-do-obi-dah'.."
or perhaps they could be included if there was some recognition for them as well.
my point is make them relevant if needed, but don't force them in if they feel awkward.

Just remember, if you write down actual lyrics from an actual song by an actual band, you will be sued for actual money.

Are the words of the song important to the story?

Or, can you just say that the band brought the crowd to their feet as they started to play their new hit- Name of song- Then discribe the crowds reaction?

MTC

Not necessarily . . .

Just remember, if you write down actual lyrics from an actual song by an actual band, you will be sued for actual money.
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Unless, of course, you get actual permission!

Ketzel said:

Just remember, if you write down actual lyrics from an actual song by an actual band, you will be sued for actual money.
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Unless, of course, you get actual permission!

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Actually, you're correct!

I'm not exactly sure how you go about it. Contact the band's representative, I would imagine. Maybe ascap or the like, the ones who enforce royalty payments by radio stations.

But whoever you contact, remember that you don't just "get" permission, you have to pay for it. I'd really rethink it, if it were me. You'd be surprised how many stories work just fine with generic names and lyrics, even if the author envision something specific in the draft.

Sunrise2Fantasy said:

In one of my stories, some of the main characters are in a band. The problem is, when they are performing, do I write random lyrics down, just say a title of a song, or what? {Especially if they are singing a cover song.} And if I can write down lyrics, how much of a song should I write?

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What purpose do the lyrics serve? Is there a point for the lyrics to be in your story?

You can always make things up. But if you're going to use a cover, you can just mention the title.

I had song lyrics (two short stanzas) in my first sold ms and my publisher "strongly encouraged" me to get rid of them as the expense required to get permission to use them (in both time and money) wasn't worth it. The lyrics were a nice touch (and offered a subtle bit of foreshadowing) but they weren't in any way integral to the plot, so I ditched them. Think long and hard about whether or not you really need them.

Beth

just my thoughts, and a question

The way Metallica got all crazy about people downloading their songs for free from places like Kazaa & Bearshare, I would think they want a pretty penny for any use of their lyrics in a novel. But, who knows?

If you are set on using the lyrics, maybe you could look inside their latest album to see what company produced it and follow the long and winding road of actually finding someone who can give you an answer; at the least they would know how to contact the band's representative. And if you do get/pay for permission, better get it in writing!

I'd bet with a little thought and time, you could come up with lyrics that pretty much say the same thing, without infringing on any copyrights...

Can someone please clarify this for me? You can use the name of a work, but just not actual pieces of that work? For instance, in a book I recently read it references Bruce Springsteen's songs by name, and also in a scene, a character said something like, "You remind me of the Seinfeld episode." Does any of that stuff need permission? Thanks in advance!

Never mind, I have found an answer to part of this: Titles cannot be copyrighted.

I've been slowly making my way through the undiluted Uncle Jim thread and found my answer in response #780.

But what about alluding to scenes in a TV show? Still wondering about that one...

Sunrise2Fantasy said:

A few parts in the story might have a purpose for the lyrics, like when their in practice and the other two main characters are watching. I could say that the band played "Name of song here" for some parts, but for other parts, I might need to put in lyrics.
And so if I included already made lyrics and specifically said it was from whatever band originally made it and such, I'd need permission? So how would I get it, just ask the agent that I sign up with to help me or something?
Thanks too, for helping me! I appreciate it!

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I guess the big question is: WHY do you have to have those particular lyrics? If you need lyrics to tell part of the story, then why not *write* lyrics that add to the story? I mean, the Metallica verses you quoted are great, but it would be a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to write your own song lyrics than it would be to acquire rights to use Hetfield & Co's property, yes?

Most of the books I've seen where full lyrics were included to something that wasn't already public domain, the lyrics were written by the author, or by a small independant-label musician, meaning you can more easily go directly to the band and get something in writing saying "Sure!".