Coming up with names

Ivonia · Jul 30, 2005

Is it wrong for a bad guy to have an "average joe" type of name? One of my beta readers pointed out to me that he really liked some of the names I came up with, but for one of the bad guys, he said the name sounded rather plain (well, at this point in the story too, the bad guy is more or less just another "average joe" too).

Should I change his name, or just give him a nickname (ala Darth Vader)? When you first read about the bad guy, he's just another average joe, but by the time you see him again in the story, 50 years have passed, and that "joe badguy" has become an emperor (and it wasn't easy for him either, as he had to fight through a brutal civil war in-between).

As for his importance, well, he will be the guy responsible for bringing the hero into the war in the story, but after that, I try not to focus on the "high level politics" and stuff like that, instead showing the hero and the bad guys he meets afterwards. I guess he's comparable to the Emperor in the original Star Wars Trilogy to use a relatively common example; you know he's in charge, but he's not the main focus. That bad guy will come into play again, but the hero for the most part doesn't really concern about him because he's got lots of other baddies to worry about.

So, do you guys try and give your villians memorable names right away, or do you try to build up their reputation with a "plain jane-type" name to make them memorable that way?

ANNIE · Jul 30, 2005

I usually try to make my names important to me. My bad guys have regular names, but they are probably after someone I really dislike or have a meaning (via baby books) that describe the character true personality. I mean real people don't start out being bad, take Ted Bundy for example. I'm sure his mother didn't name him thinking he woul grow up to be a serial killer. He was a regular guy with a regular name with a hell of a secret. i like characters like that.

Niesta · Jul 30, 2005

As long as he's not the only one with an average name, I think you're okay. I remember a friend of mine writing a story about all these warrior women, flinging around names like Zelda, Xanthia, and Aiaiaea. And who was their arch-nemesis? Scott, the evil magician.

Ai-yi-yi. It was like running into a glass door.

Now if he was a teenage kid from another dimension, okay. But he wasn't, he was a Sauron-grade baddie, and it wasn't supposed to be funny.

aadams73 · Jul 30, 2005

Niesta said:
As long as he's not the only one with an average name, I think you're okay. I remember a friend of mine writing a story about all these warrior women, flinging around names like Zelda, Xanthia, and Aiaiaea. And who was their arch-nemesis? Scott, the evil magician.

Ai-yi-yi. It was like running into a glass door.

Now if he was a teenage kid from another dimension, okay. But he wasn't, he was a Sauron-grade baddie, and it wasn't supposed to be funny.

That's hysterical. Honestly, I'm laughing so hard I have tears pouring down my face.

As for my own characters, they have normal-ish names. The exception is Maxie Million, my main character's best friend, who is a former Vegas showgirl.

PattiTheWicked · Jul 30, 2005

Niesta said:
As long as he's not the only one with an average name, I think you're okay. I remember a friend of mine writing a story about all these warrior women, flinging around names like Zelda, Xanthia, and Aiaiaea. And who was their arch-nemesis? Scott, the evil magician.

Scott Evil. Hee hee hee.

AdamH · Jul 30, 2005

"Scott, the evil magician" :ROFL:

Classic, Niesta. Sounds like an Austin Powers villain.

I've had my share of bad "bad guy" names in my past too.

I agree with Annie though. The name does add to the mystique of a villian, but it's really all about the character. Hannibal Lecter could've easily been used for an Indiana Jones type character instead of a cannibal. Or John Doe in the movie Seven, as another example. It really does depend on the character to make the name bad and not the name.

Richard White · Jul 30, 2005

"Scott the evil magician, I'd like you to meet Tim the Enchanter."

"Pleased to meet you Scott."

"Likewise, I'm sure. Anything I should know about this place before I try to conquer it."

"I'd keep an eye out for little white rabbits."

"White rabbits? Don't be silly."

"All right, don't say I didn't warn you. They've got big teeth."

Akuma · Jul 30, 2005

I think Average Joe names are quite acceptable when they don't stick out like a sore thumb. The novel I'm writing, has many such Average names (which is unusual for me--I tend to stick with unique but real names). Or you could make the Average Joe name the 'outlandish' name in your story. But judging from what we've seen from Scott Evil, that doesn't sound wise. Unless, of course, you're aiming for a comedy. But that doesn't sound like the case here

.

reph · Jul 30, 2005

Niesta said:
Scott, the evil magician....and it wasn't supposed to be funny.

Well, it was.

Scott and his sidekick, Buddy the Poisoner?

aruna · Jul 30, 2005

Scott the evil magician is finally defeated by Mary, the wicked sorceress.

Button · Jul 30, 2005

I'm terrible with naming my characters. I like odd names. Coltar, Sorto, Talon, Godel... those are all names to me.

My new book, the main charachter's name is Jon Smith through the first part.

There is a reason for that, but it irritates the heck out of me to call him that until he learns his real name.

And Harry Potter is a pretty average name. Or it used to be.

But see what can happen with a plain named kid?

Susan Gable · Jul 30, 2005

In part, it depends on what you're writing. Loved the example with all the exotic names and then SCOTT. <G> And yeah, Scotty Evil. Too funny. :ROFL:

But in my first novel, when Harlequin bought it, they wanted to change the hero's first name. (It was Broc.) The reason? They thought Broc sounded "too romancy" and Superromance is more mainstreamy, and they shy away from anything "too romancy." Hey, you're buying my book, I don't care what you call him. :Thumbs:

He became Jake. (Luckily they didn't want to change the heroine's name, which was Harley and a very important aspect of her character. But I think they realized that.)

Mostly I pull first names from baby books and last names from phone books. Some names I just pull out of thin air, and then hope there's not a reason the name seems to work well together. <G>

Susan G.

Jewel101 · Jul 30, 2005

Richard White said:
"Scott the evil magician, I'd like you to meet Tim the Enchanter."

"Pleased to meet you Scott."

"Likewise, I'm sure. Anything I should know about this place before I try to conquer it."

"I'd keep an eye out for little white rabbits."

"White rabbits? Don't be silly."

"All right, don't say I didn't warn you. They've got big teeth."

Zolah · Jul 30, 2005

Sounds about right to me - I mean, if this guy isn't evil to begin with, it's going to be a bit of a giveaway to call him 'Maladotirus' or something. Plus, when something evil is unexpected it's all the more spooky. You can always give him a title later on, like you said.

I like to pick names that mean something, personally. I've got a stack of baby-name books, so I can look up the names I like. I gave one heroine a name that meant 'Helper of Mankind' because she was, and the villain's name meant 'Shadow'. The casual reader wouldn't notice any of this, but it adds an extra layer of meaning.

Akuma · Jul 30, 2005

I guess having Evil as a last name requires you to be wickid, cruel, and...evil.

scribbler1382 · Jul 30, 2005

Akuma said:
I guess having Evil as a last name requires you to be wickid, cruel, and...evil.

I think it would be way cooler to have a character named Evil who was so ridiculously good you'd need to check your blood sugar after reading about them.

Saanen · Jul 30, 2005

Maybe give your future emperor a slightly more regal name--still common, but a bit more formal than usual. A great trick to this is using a last name as a first name. Not like Johnson or Smith, I mean, but a name like Dixon or Dugald (to pick a few out of the Ds in the phone book). Or maybe you could give him a nickname that could be equally appropriate for a regular joe or a despotic emperor--Wolfhound or something, I don't know.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a character with a regular name, particularly if you have other characters with slightly more unusual names and want to call attention to this guy or just make his name easy for the reader to remember (although the Scott example earlier is hilarious!). One of my WIPs that's on the back burner at the moment is a SF novel with all non-human characters (less corny than it sounds, or at least I hope so); I made up (easily pronouncible) names for the characters because I wanted to point out to the reader that they're not human, but I wanted my main character to be a little more accessible so I named him Drake. It's perfect for his character in many ways, but it's a real, if unusual, name in English.

Mistook · Jul 30, 2005

My main baddie's name is "Nelson Studivant". I'm hoping it translates to the reader's subconscious as "geek who is rich".

I picked the name "Studivant" from an online random name generator. Anybody who has ever used the one I'm talking about probably recognizes the name. It seems to come up in the results fairly often.

I like the way it rolls with lines such as...

"Damn you, Studivant!"

"...before Studivant strikes again."

"This looks like the work of Studivant's men."

reph · Jul 30, 2005

Mistook said:
My main baddie's name is "Nelson Studivant". I'm hoping it translates to the reader's subconscious as "geek who is rich".

Yep.

azbikergirl · Jul 30, 2005

For my fantasy stories, I like names that are almost regular names. Arrin instead of Aaron, Brodas instead of Brutus, Dashielle instead of Danielle, etc. For my SF, I go with conventional names, except for my heroine who is named Kathlin because her mom wanted to name her Kathryn and her dad wanted Caitlin. She goes by Katie.

Mistook · Jul 30, 2005

I havent written any science fiction yet, but if I ever do, I'd like to play on the way common surnames developed, and put that into the future. So there'd be characters like, John Electircianson, Robert Cabletech, and Suzy Chipmaker.

aruna · Jul 31, 2005

Names, I feel , have to suit the character. I would not name a woman flipping burgers at MacDonalds "Priscilla". Clarence is not the name of a thug. Likewise, I wouldn't name the lord of the manor Chuck. Upper class women (at least in Britain) tend to have names ending in A (Arabella, Diana, Frederica, Franscisca, Jemima etc) Some names have automatic snob appeal: Penelope, Theodore, Clarissa, and good old William. I feel that women's names beginning with "G" give an old fashioned, rather masculine feeling to the character: Gertrude, Greta, Georgina, Geraldine, Gladys. The letter "U" sounds dark, the letter "A" sounds light. And so on.

Mistook · Jul 31, 2005

aruna said:
Names, I feel , have to suit the character. I would not name a woman flipping burgers at MacDonalds "Priscilla". Clarence is not the name of a thug. Likewise, I wouldn't name the lord of the manor Chuck. Upper class women (at least in Britain) tend to have names ending in A (Arabella, Diana, Frederica, Franscisca, Jemima etc) Some names have automatic snob appeal: Penelope, Theodore, Clarissa, and good old William. I feel that women's names beginning with "G" give an old fashioned, rather masculine feeling to the character: Gertrude, Greta. The letter "U" sounds dark, the letter "A" sounds light. And so on.

I agree with this, and I'd take it further, that the actual shape of the letters has some impact. "V" and "X" are pointy and sneaky. "Q" is a bit queer. "S" is a snake, there's something sly and slithery about it. "T" and "K" are action letters, who strike without remorse, while "L" and "M" are kind of laid back.

aruna · Jul 31, 2005

Mistook said:
"S" is a snake, there's something sly and slithery about it. ".

VEry, very true! In fact, I once researched the letter S and found that especially in combination with N and L it has a very negative feel to it. Look at the following words:
Sneer, snigger, snub, snotty, snout, snook, snob, snitch, sneak, snare, snake, snivel.
Sly, sloppy, slovently, sloth, slur, slug, sluggish, sleaze, sly, slithery, slag, slave, slay, slack, slapdash.

These are from just two pages of the dictionary!

I wonder if J K Rowling deliberately chose "Slytherin" for the bad guys for that very reason, or if it was unconscious?

Mistook · Jul 31, 2005

aruna said:
VEry, very true! In fact, I once researched the letter S and found that especially in combination with N and L it has a very negative feel to it. Look at the following words:
Sneer, snigger, snub, snotty, snout, snook, snob, snitch, sneak, snare, snake, snivel.
Sly, sloppy, slovently, sloth, slur, slug, sluggish, sleaze, sly, slithery, slag, slave, slay, slack, slapdash.

These are from just two pages of the dictionary!

I wonder if J K Rowling deliberately chose "Slytherin" for the bad guys for that very reason, or if it was unconscious?

It was years ago, but I recall an article in the old "OMNI" magazine with a psychological bent, that reported on a study much like you describe. They had a test group look at two abstract scribbles. One was nothing but loops and curls. The other was all jagged angles.

The question was: Which figure is "Molumoo" and which is "Trakitee?".

By a huge percentage, the loops and curls were labled "Molumoo" and the other, "Trakitee." It illustrated the point that letters themselves still hold a kind of pictorial power. And I'm sure if you did the same test with peices of music, or sound effects, you'd be able to separate the Molumoo from the Trakitee.

When you think of, for example, sloppy slush, it really makes that kind of sound as you "trudge" through it. When you walk over frozen snow, it really does "crunch".

Coming up with names

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