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Old 12-21-2009, 04:03 AM   #1
DwayneA
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3d,2d, or 1d. Which Should Certain Characters Be?

I'm trying to determine which characters in my current work should be which. Other than the protagonist, I can't decide who else should be a 3 dimensional character. I also can't determine who should be 2d or just 1d.

What factors determine the answers? How do you decide which characters should be which?
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:46 AM   #2
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I'm pretty sure this was already said in the other threads you've made about dimensions of characters. But:
3d: main character(s), these are characters whose viewpoint is followed for a substantial % of the book.
2d: supporting characters, these appear at multiple points and their emotions, actions, and reactions are important to the story.
1d: cameo/bit characters, these usually appear for a paragraph or two then disappear, or they are like human furniture who aren't involved in the emotions of the story.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:19 PM   #3
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I don't decide to be honest. That is way too much work. I just write the story and let the characters breathe.

So, using this (to me wierd) idea of deciding a characters level of depth. Do you do this before you start writing? or is it more a revision thing?
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:00 PM   #4
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I don't decide to be honest. That is way too much work. I just write the story and let the characters breathe.

So, using this (to me wierd) idea of deciding a characters level of depth. Do you do this before you start writing? or is it more a revision thing?
Me? I come up with a general outline of the story first, and from that it's obvious who the major characters will be. The ones I stick in later as devices to make the plot progress, or give the main characters an excuse to talk or think about some topic, or to delegate boring stuff to, those are the minor characters. It only comes up in revision if you have a problem where a plot-irrelevant character took over and wouldn't shut up, or if you are making sure the development of your major characters is deep but not redundant.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:20 PM   #5
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Ah, right. I am attempting outlining for the first time right now actually. But I doubt I'll go that deep. Just don't feel right to me. Still, interesting though.
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:33 PM   #6
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Try thinking about ALL your characters as 3D people, with lives and backgrounds, wants and desires, wins and failures. Now decide just how much info you need to reveal about each character. If it's nothing to do with the current story then keep it hidden -- use it in another story. (On which note, have you considered writing a series of stories about the same lead character? How much would you need to reveal about your protag in each story? You'd want to save some info for later reveals so he stays interesting, wouldn't you? If you reveal everything now, that's probably too much info, which can be boring. Try applying that same "keep some stuff hidden for later use" approach to your characters, including your protagonist, in your current story.)

Always remember, the bus boy wants a tip. Everyone needs motivation. That's what gives them more 3-Dimensional depth.

-Derek
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:32 PM   #7
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I agree with Derek. Every single character, no matter how small their role, should be 3 dimensional. Everyone has a personal life and the author should know each and every character that shows up, no matter what part they play.

1 and 2 dimensional characters are flat and no story should have flat characters.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:49 PM   #8
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What factors determine the answers? How do you decide which characters should be which?
There isn't a right way or a wrong way to do this--except if it's keeping you from writing the story itself. It is okay to start writing the book and have the characters not quite work in the beginning, because you're still settling into the story and the characters. It's also okay if this is a weak area, but writing, experimenting, and finishing the project is the only way to learn how to do it better.

What I do: I really don't even think about it. I just toss the characters into the story and develop them from there--completely different from the way most people do it. I also know there are some things I'm not good at it. I can't, for example, develop the characters as part of the plot, nor can I do character arcs. Nor can I make a character change over the course of the story. I drove a instructor in an outline workshop crazy because she kept telling me to "think outside of the box" and put more characterization into the outline, and I could not do it. It's easy to get derailed over what we can't do and not pay attention to what we can do.

Honestly, the best advice I could give you is to simply have fun with your characters and don't worry about following rules.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:52 PM   #9
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but how do you make everybody 3d or feel real and interesting, even the supporting and minor characters?
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:16 PM   #10
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but how do you make everybody 3d or feel real and interesting, even the supporting and minor characters?
I remember reading something (I wish I could remember where so I could cite it) that has stuck with me.

Every character is the hero in their own story. You may not use them as heavily as your primary characters, but they all have their own story, their own views on what is going on, their own ideas about how things should work.

It sounded better in my head.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:06 PM   #11
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but how do you make everybody 3d or feel real and interesting, even the supporting and minor characters?
No fair! That's a totally different question!

Look at it this way: characters are defined by their actions. Everyone, even the most minor characters, will pursue their own goals and desires. This could bring them into conflict with the protagonist, who may have totally different goals and desires. Conflict reveals character.

Work on the conflict aspect -- what does your protagonist want? Who or what is stopping him from achieving his goal? How badly does he want it, and how far is he willing to go to get it? Ditto for the antagonist and other characters. When and where do they clash? What actions do they take that shows their character?

If you can make the conflict a personal, emotional issue, even better. That'll reveal more about the characters, so the reader ought to find them more interesting.

-Derek
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:11 PM   #12
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but how do you make everybody 3d or feel real and interesting, even the supporting and minor characters?
By giving them believable personalities and reactions. By showing us reality instead of imitating it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:56 PM   #13
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but how do you make everybody 3d or feel real and interesting, even the supporting and minor characters?
Try thinking in terms of the people around you. Let's suppose there's someone you really despise. Why did you despise them--but don't answer like "they did this to me," which puts the emphasis on you, not them. Rather, answer like, "Their personality was very abrasive; they bullied people when they didn't get their way."

Or look at the sales clerk at your local fast food restaurant. You get some who are just walking through the day, so maybe that person doesn't like their job and doesn't care. Or the one who screws up your order three times and gets mad at you for correcting him, like it was your fault. That's someone who doesn't pay attention to details and has probably had ten other customers complain--and been lectured by his boss. How about the woman walking a malmut (a very large dog)? Why that dog? Maybe it was because someone broke into her house and beat her, so she no longer feels safe? Or maybe she saw the dog and fell in love with it without quite realizing it would get as big as it did. You start by asking "Why?" in your head and making up stories about it. Be creative, and have fun with it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:58 PM   #14
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What I do: I really don't even think about it. I just toss the characters into the story and develop them from there--completely different from the way most people do it. I also know there are some things I'm not good at it. I can't, for example, develop the characters as part of the plot, nor can I do character arcs. Nor can I make a character change over the course of the story. I drove a instructor in an outline workshop crazy because she kept telling me to "think outside of the box" and put more characterization into the outline, and I could not do it.
Oh dear, that's spookily similar to what i do. Hmmm, this outlining malarky might be more interesting than I thought.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:09 AM   #15
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I let the characters grow as I write, which I do completely spontaneously - often a little element of their personality will form as an idea in my head and I'll run with it and try to fit it in with the overall plot.
Characters are 3D by virtue of a whole gammut of personality traits - assign which ones you want your characters to have and just go with it.
And I agree with dpaterso - all characters should be 3D just as all people are 3D. You determine which elements of their personality to write into the story to further it along and which to leave out.
Take a scene out of your own life in which 2-3 characters are involved in something - you don't see all aspects of who they are yet you know there must be more to them, right?
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:23 AM   #16
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Dwayne,

I'm going to give you some honest, down-to-earth, possibly brutal advice here. Instead of wasting your time and energy worrying about how you're supposed to write your characters/plot arc/descriptions/story, just sit down and write it. Stop obsessing about the details. Stop second guessing yourself. The reality? There is no 'right' way to do all of these things. Only the reality of writing matters, the actual placement of words upon paper in such a manner as to relate a story. Once you've got your story on paper, go through and clean up the technical stuff--the typos, the grammar, the spelling. Put it in a desk drawer (or a document file) for a few weeks. Leave it alone. Then, sit down and read it all the way through--just to see if it entertains you, engages you, makes you care about the characters. Once you've determined that, you have two options--either get to work revising and refining the story you have or chuck it into the trash can and rewrite it from scratch. Either way, your characters/plot/conflict/story/descriptions aren't going to be perfect on that first go around or probably many of the subsequent drafts. Creating a full-fleshed, 3-D character in a well-told, thought-provoking, entertaining story is a long process. Every draft you write layers more credibility and emotional depth to your characters and enhances the details of the story.

No one here can give you a blueprint for how to do these things. You have to learn how to do it for yourself, in the style and manner you are most comfortable with. This isn't something that can be taught, per se; it's something that develops just as you develop scope and style as a writer. Sure, we can sit here and tell you to give your character quirks, to give them a realistic history that results in their loves/fears/likes/dislike/challenges or whatever, but until you put your fingers on the keyboard and start writing, it's nothing but a bunch of inexplicable advice.

Do yourself a favor, dear: just sit down and WRITE. Have confidence in what you're doing. Tell your story. THEN, after the first draft is over, have the courage to sit down and honestly analyze what you've written. If you can manage to do that, you will discover that you don't need all of these instructions.

Just tell the story. The rest will take care of itself when you're ready to revise. Instead of strangling yourself with these nebulous rights and wrongs, toss those doubts aside and get down to the business of actually writing. You'll be glad you did.

Trust me.

Best of luck!
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:48 AM   #17
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I agree 100% with mscelina (not that she needs my support :~)

There's a story I heard once about some famous author called in to give a writing lecture. He walked up to the dais and said, "If you want to be writers. Write." And then walked back off again.

No shortcuts, I'm afraid.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:56 AM   #18
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I would follow everyone's advice, if I even understood it.

Sorry, I'm a very slow learner.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:03 AM   #19
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Being a slow learner has nothing to do with it, dear. JUST WRITE. If you like to read a good story, you know how to tell one. Trust yourself and just do it.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:33 AM   #20
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I've been reading lots of books at home and during free-time at the library, but I have still have no idea how to write one
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:01 AM   #21
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I've been reading lots of books at home and during free-time at the library, but I have still have no idea how to write one
SIT the HECK down and just WRITE!

it doesn't have to be perfect.

it doesn't have to be magnificent.

it doesn't have to be your epic tome of all time.

just WRITE!

you will NOT learn how to write by asking question after question after question. At some point you need to sit DOWN and just DO IT.

Go. Write.

'nuff said.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:29 AM   #22
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some time ago I started a thread on this forum that asked the question, "Can not everyone create interesting characters?" Lot's of people who responded said, "nope".

I think I'm one of those people who can't create interesting characters (or characters at all).
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:03 AM   #23
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You know my biggest problem with writing is i generally think everything I am writing, when I am writing it, is great. It is only when I read it back a few weeks later that I realise my ego put one over on me again. What i mean is that it's not as good as i thought it was, which is where the work starts.

I think you may have the opposite problem. You think everything you do is rubbish before you've even given yourself a chance.

Just write, mate. This is a craft, you don't pick up a chisel and start whacking away at a piece of wood in the hope of making a door. You have to learn and you learn by doing.

Beyond that, I don't really know what more can be said.
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #24
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Dwayne, you're not trying to learn how to write. You're creating excuses as to why you CAN'T. You're defeated before you even begin, convincing yourself that you're "one of those people." If you honestly believe you are "one of those people," then stop torturing yourself and find another hobby. But, if you believe you've got a story in you that needs to be told, then stop shooting yourself in the foot, get off your butt and go write it. You'll accomplish a hell of a lot more by at least TRYING to write than by setting yourself up for failure to the point where you won't even try.

We cannot give you reassurance about your writing if you can't even bring yourself to give it a whirl. You're asking us to convince you that you can write. Well, we can't.

YOU need to convince YOU that you can write. Until you do that, this is nothing more than an exercise in futility. Sorry if that sounds harsh or mean--it's not meant to. It's meant to help you. So log off the website, open a brand spanking new clean document, put your fingers on the keys labelled 'A' 'S' 'D' 'F' 'J' 'K' 'L' and ':' and get cracking.

It's the only way to do it. Stop talking about it; just do it.

GO WRITE.
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:13 AM   #25
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I am trying! I've been trying for years! So don't go accusing me of not making an effort!
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