to all our professional writers here

I've been living for the past five years entirely on my earnings as a writer: advances and royalties. I sent two children to private schools and was able to get a mortgage on my own home, plus live fairly comfortably, with at least one holiday a year.

The problem is always never knowing exactly when money is going to come; royalties are paid half yearly, but that means nothing. Royalties due on 31st December often don't come through till June for vasrious reasons, and I've often had to borrow money to tide me over till they come, so that when they DO come there's little left! On the other hand, occasionally there have been nice surprises which came out of the blue.
But on the whole it has been very precarious and I'm getting tired of it. I need a big breakthrough or a nine to five job.

Living off Advances, as opposed to royalties is the more predictable way route. For example if you have established a series...eg: crime genre....then it's usually nicely mapped out, 1 book each year, advances paid out on Harcover, paperback release dates etc etc. Then...if you do earn out on the advances, the additional royalty payments come as out-of-the-blue surprises. Which is nice.

So the trick is to establish a series. Standalone books seem to be an increasing rarity these days anyway.

I'm not supporting myself on my writing now because I haven't sold a novel for several years. I'll tell you how the money played out for me with the three novels I did have published in the 90s.

April 1995 - got an offer for the first novel for $10K. They asked for a synopsis for a second book and a week later offered me $10K for that one, too. But only half was payable immediately, the other half would come when the book was done and accepted.

July 1995 - Received $15K minus my agent's 15%, so it was just over $12K. Set aside half of it for taxes.

December 1995 - finished the second book. Edits started and the book was finally "accepted" in February.

April 1996 - I received $5K minus my agent's 15%, so about $4,250. Again I set aside half for taxes (and needed most of it!)

April 1996 - started discussing and writing a synopsis for book #3. Contract signed in June for a $30K advance, 1/2 "now" and 1/2 upon completion.

July 1996 - received another check for $12K+.

August 1996 - first book came out.

December 1996 - finished 3rd book, submitted it on 12/31, and began the dreaded editing rounds.

March 1997 - first royalty check - $23K after my agent's cut! Have to admit, it was pretty exciting. But then I set aside 1/2 for taxes (which I paid quarterly).

May 1997 - finally finished edits on book #3 and had it "accepted."

July 1997 - received another check for $12K+. (and the tax thing again.)

August 1997 - second book came out.

September 1997 - second royalty check. This was for around $6K. Spent a good month trying to decipher the royalty statements. Never succeeded.

October 1997 - After months of back and forth discussions and stalling measures on the part of the publisher, I basically got dumped. My third book was now an orphan but still due to be released in the summer of 1998.

March 1998 - Third royalty check and the first check to include sales of the second book. Another big one...$21K. Half went for...well...you know.

September1998 - Third book comes out. Received a royalty check for around $5K.

Over the next three years I received dribs and drabs of royalties. The biggest check was somewhere around $8K. All told I made between $40K and $45K off of each book. (They were paperback originals.) That sounds okay until you realize that I had no idea how much money any of the checks would be for except the advance checks, and each book's money was spread out over a period of about 3 years. And, of course, the tax thing.

1995 pretax income: approx $12,000
1996 pretax income: approx $16,250
1997 pretax income: approx $41,000 (the best year by far!)
1998 pretax income: approx $26,000
1999 pretax income: approx $12,000
2000 pretax income: approx $8,000

Ater that, the amounts were pretty minor: a couple thousand here and there. Factor in the fact that almost half of this money went to pay taxes and you end up with an income that has you living around or below the poverty level.

From 1998 to 2001 I fell into some great freelancing opportunities and made a very nice income. I was working on another novel during that time but then my agent announced she was retiring in 2000 and I was suddenly agentless. And I found that all the nonfiction writing kept pushing my fiction onto a back burner. Plus, when I did try to write fiction, it felt like work instead of fun.

So I quit all the freelancing in 2001, got myself a day job (well, actually it's a night job but it's an occupation I truly enjoy) and didn't write a thing for nearly a year. Now I write only fiction (and it's fun again) and I'm back at square one, trying to find an agent and sell a few books. We shall see.

Beth

Well my head is spinning.... You didn't mention, were your books a series?

And geesh!!!! The IRS sure was paying their help quite well getting half your $$$.

I write fiction. All the time. So far it seems mostly because I like it, but I have hopes. Waiting now on feed back for 2 going on 3 manuscripts.
Dreaming of those 0000000's

gp101 said:

I admire any of you who have published even one measly short story, which is no measly task in itself. But how many of you on this board make your living solely from writing fiction?

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I don't make a living from writing, and never have. In part, this is because I'm a slow writer: a mid-five-figure advance for a duology doesn't work out to much if it takes you five years to write the books. In part it's because I'm not a well-known writer, and can't command the kind of advances more famous/successful people do. Nor do my books remain in print for more than a few years apiece, which means I don't have a reliable stream of income from royalties.

I supplement my book writing income with freelance writing, a bit of editing, and some website design. Mostly, though, I have an extremely supportive husband who's willing to shoulder the lion's share of our living expenses.

Most of the writers I know have a day job or a tolerant spouse. Most of those who do support themselves with their writing have to work incredibly hard and do a lot of scrambling to make ends meet. Making a living from writing books is a typical writer's dream, but it's not the typical writer's situation.

- Victoria

<raises hand>

I've only been doing the "writing for a living" for about three years now, so the jury is still out because as the others have said, it's a long road before you actually see the results. But the potential is encouraging.

In 2003, I made about $2,000 from selling short stories and freelance magazine articles and signed my first book contract.

In 2004, the check finally arrived and I was able to add about $10K to the household from book advances.

This year, 2005, my co-author and I will probably each see $15K from advances for books to be pubbed in 2006.

However, the 2004 book sold out the first edition of 70K, so we're hopeful that we'll pay back that advance and maybe see a little more from the royalties. At the very least, all sales of the 2005 book (also from the 2004 contract) will be free and clear, but paid in 2006. Fortunately, we're working on another deal with the same publisher, so maybe we'll get a bit more from that contract, but likely, that payment will show up in 2006 too.

So far, so good. It's a nice paying hobby that I happen to do full time. But it has potential to do all the things you mentioned. And I'm still willing to wait and see.

victoriastrauss said:

Nor do my books remain in print for more than a few years apiece, which means I don't have a reliable stream of income from royalties.

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If you have the rights, why not make them available through Lulu or something like that? They might not generate a steady stream of income, but at least they'd be available.

living

I make a living from writing, and have for about fifteen years now, but while I earn a full-time living from writing, fiction is only part of the process. It's the biggest part by far, but still only a part. Like many who earn a living by writing, I write anything and everythng that will turn a buck. I never found it particularly difficult to earn a living as a writer, but if you aren't high on the bestseller lists, you have to be fast and you have to be versatile.

I have, however, now found the big drawback to writing for a living. I just spent about a year and a half being too sick to earn much money as a writer. When you have a family, and kids going through college, plus medical bills, life can eat savings in a minute. As a writer, I have no worker's comp, no unemployment, no paid sick days, etc. Believe me, I have now learned why so many writers, even ones who are earning a good bit from writing, keep a day job that has benefits, or make sure their spouse has such a job.

Writers who are earning millions probably don't have these problems, but for those of us who are simply earning a decent living, getting sick can shine a very bright light on the issue of financial security. I 've never had the tax problems cwfgal mentions. The IRS seems pretty fair, to me. The only big tax I pay is the SS tax. I keep around 75% of my after agent income. Can't complain about that. But life can get extremely expensive overnight.

Writing for a living is a great life. It sure as heck beats working nine to five for a boss you don't like. One of the nicest things about writing for a living is that you can take working vacations. It's as easy to put five hours a day in a good hotel room as it is at home. Maybe easier.

But unless you hit the bigtime, you'll need a lot of self-discipline. Just because you're self-employed doesn't mean you get to take four days a week off work. It doesnt mean you get to go sit and watch TV on days when the words won't flow, and you feel like chucking it all. Too much of that and you'll be looking through the help wanted ads.

Stuffedtoy said:

Well my head is spinning.... You didn't mention, were your books a series?

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No, they were stand alones. I have since written a book that is intended as the first in a series (a humorous forensic mystery -- yeah, you read it right) and as an experiment I self-published it and used the experience as a focus for articles in my newsletter. I made back my initial investment in sales, but I've sunk it all back into marketing. To date I've sold about 130 copies. Woo hoo.

The fourth book I was trying to wheel and deal with Harper when they dumped me did get written. I'm currently giving it away in serial form, one chapter at a time, with each issue of my newsletter (which, by the way, is free if anyone is interested).

And I'm now seeking an agent for a fifth novel that is in the same basic genre as the first three (or four, if you count the one I'm giving away). My first three are all out of print now and I have the rights back, but I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm hoping my agent will tell me, assuming I find one.

This writing stuff is a wicked business.

Beth

cwfgal said:

This writing stuff is a wicked business.

Beth

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Do you mean wicked as in good, or wicked as in bad?

victoriastrauss said:

I don't make a living from writing, and never have. ....

....Snipped....

Most of the writers I know have a day job or a tolerant spouse. Most of those who do support themselves with their writing have to work incredibly hard and do a lot of scrambling to make ends meet. Making a living from writing books is a typical writer's dream, but it's not the typical writer's situation.

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That amazes me, Victoria. I didn't realize my own dream of living off my writing was a professional writer's dream as well as a newbie writer's dream. I should have known this stuff already, but for the life of me, I still imagine a writer's life being like the old Stephen J. Cannell Productions' clip at the end of the gentleman's famous shows: A man with a pipe in his mouth busy at the IBM Selectric typewriter, surrounded by very comfortable living quarters and obviously wealthy. I guess that's a myth for most writers.

Oh, well. I chose to be a writer because I wanted to tell stories, not because I wanted to get rich. It's interesting to see so many professionals who don't make a living at it, or have been for only a short period of time. The mythology surrounding the writer's life is indeed strong in most writers' psyches. I think having read it from professional writers' own words helps rid me of that mythology and makes the life I'm most likely to lead as a writer, more real within my mind and heart.

SeanDSchaffer said:

I still imagine a writer's life being like the old Stephen J. Cannell Productions' clip at the end of the gentleman's famous shows: A man with a pipe in his mouth busy at the IBM Selectric typewriter, surrounded by very comfortable living quarters and obviously wealthy.

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Just like everyone thinks all actors live like Brad Pitt, surrounded by adoring fans and luxury and fame and... (reality is most actors, if they're working at all, don't earn enough to feed their fish)

Sure, there are writers who live very comfortably as full-timers. There are also someone like JK Rowling who are rich beyond anyone's wildest dream. But the majority of writers probably fall in the category of "I could afford a nicer place to live if I drive buses for a living..."

maestrowork said:

But the majority of writers probably fall in the category of "I could afford a nicer place to live if I drive buses for a living..."

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I have a friend who's a writer, and he once joked about giving up writing and getting a job working at at a local McDonald's, but finally decided against it because he was afraid all that extra money would corrupt him.

I think many of us dream of making millions, but really, how much money does any of us need? I'd far rather make 100K at year at writing than five million a year working a nine to five job I hate.

And it's not like most nine to five jobs pay all that well, anyway. The average income in this country is only 33K, plus another 15K in benefits. That's not exactly a Rowling, King, Clancy, Roberts income, either.

Let's put things in perspective. Take Rowling for instance. When the first HP book came out in England, it was a small print run. She got a, I believe, £1500 advance; that was all. Her agent told her that she shouldn't expect too much since it was a children's book. She said she was just so happy to hold the hardback in her hand! Talk about humble. Eventually she got a grant for £8000 to write her second book -- she was still living in poverty, even after the first book came out! Then came the Scholastic deal and the rest is history.

Stephen King's first advance (Carrie) was $2500.

The moral of the story: write a good book, and the rest will happen.

John Grisham, I believe, also started out with a small advance for A Time to Kill.

aruna said:

John Grisham, I believe, also started out with a small advance for A Time to Kill.

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And a small publisher -- he sold a lot of books out of the trunk of his car, and eventually sold over 5000 copies.

Nicholas Spark was barely making it after The Notebook came out. It wasn't until Message in the Bottle that he struck literal gold.

Then there are many stories in which the author didn't strike gold at all...

I got $2,500 for my first novel in 1982, and $5,000 for my second novel a couple of years later. New writers are still getting those kinds of advances. How many businesses can anyone think of where the starting salary now is the same as it was 20 years ago? I'd say that's a pretty good nutshell comment on the financial consequences of being a writer.

- Victoria

Though I wouldn't put him in the same league as Rowling, King, and Grisham, let's not forget about Christopher Paolini. He wrote Eragon when he was fifteen, then handsold it for almost four years to get it to take off. And it did. He was a millionaire before he was even old enough to celebrate with champagne.

alaskamatt17 said:

handsold it for almost four years to get it to take off...

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Now, that's dedication and confidence.

The problem with a lot of new writers is that they see part of a success story like Rowling's or Sparks', and they think, "Oh, that doesn't seem that hard." And it seems like every day someone is striking a six-figure deal somewhere. How hard can it be? They don't realize it's not the norm, and it takes years and some luck and lots of hard work to become an overnight success (Rowling started the HP book in 1990 -- it wasn't published until 1997... that's almost 8 years).

Obviously, we're not here to discourage writers. Writing is a wonderful career if you truly enjoy what you do. We need to keep the dream alive, but plant our feet firmly on the ground. We have to realize for some people they may find fame and fortune right off the bat, but for the rest of us, it takes years, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all. And if we're getting into this writing with stars in our eyes, we may very well be sorely disappointed.

alaskamatt17 said:

Though I wouldn't put him in the same league as Rowling, King, and Grisham, let's not forget about Christopher Paolini. He wrote Eragon when he was fifteen, then handsold it for almost four years to get it to take off. And it did. He was a millionaire before he was even old enough to celebrate with champagne.

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Where on earth did you hear the kid was a millionaire?

Consider, however, when you say that the book "took off," that his parents were both in publishing and had more than a little to do with its eventual commercial publication.

You're right, Victoria. My advances in 1988 and 1990 will probably be slightly less than what I pull for my next book. And that is a crying shame because I'm a known quantity ghost--in other words, I disapeared for too many years to remain in the public eye, so I'm at the starting line again prepped to run against a larger and more eagar field.

Tri

I don't remember the magazine, but I read an article about him that said he was a millionaire by the time he was 19. Eragon has over 1,000,000 copies in print, according to www.alagaesia.com, and he's sold the movie rights to Fox 2000 (Production starts August 1st), so if he isn't a millionaire, somebody's ripping him off.

Advances

I guess advances haven't come all that far in the last thirty years or so, but advances are based on how many copies a pubisher thinks will sell, and with so many novels now being released each year, it sometimes surprises me that advances are offered to first time novelists at all.

But I've never wanted large advances. I'd much rather earn my money from royalties. When a book doesn't earn out its advance, publishers can get worried fast. Royalties, on the other hand, come from money the publisher has already earned.

aruna said:

Do you mean wicked as in good, or wicked as in bad?

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Yes.



Beth