Tips on making dialogue Movie quality?

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 20, 2005

I have a really good script I think after only revision 3. It was horrible before, too much racism, too much repetitiveness and no emotional attachment to the protaonist. Now it is much better. Only problem is the dialogue needs some work. Am I basically going to have to read it out loud and try to act the scenes to perfect it? Or will my dialogue eventually come to me after maybe revision 6(I plan on doing 6 revisions total so I won't be done till december, i take a month off between revisions).

Also I said my script was good but one thingabout it is a lot of the scenes take place in a persons apatment, people entering or leaving. Is this necessarily a bad thing? I don't want to be overrepetitve but it IS a comedy and I noticed certainblack comedies will have it take place at a persons house like Friday etc.

sspunisher · Jul 20, 2005

I'm not anywhere near as experienced as anyone else on here, but my personal thoughts on dialogue:

I think the shorter the better. Because it's how people really talk. Humans use certain mannerisms, raise and lower their voices, use hand gestures, make certain facial expressions that eliminate a lot of words that tend to sneak up on us in scripts.

What I do is write the script as it should be. Every character says what needs to be said, even if it's 5 lines long. When I get stuck in the story, and when I still feel like writing, I go back and reread my script. That's when I start cutting out words and rewording lines, making everything more compact and realistic, and then give trust that the actor will be competent enough to say his lines correctly.

I think a common trap most people fall into is spelling everything out to the viewer/reader in the dialogue. Here's an example, based on Jane's reaction.

JOHN DOE
Guess what Jane? I got the job!

JANE DOE
Oh my god, are you serious!?

(as opposed to)

JOHN DOE
Guess what Jane? I got the job!

JANE DOE
Yea!?

It's a crappy example, but you know what I mean. Both convey the same thing, disbelief and excitement. But you reduced it by five words, simply by putting faith into the actress. Maybe she'll tilt her head, widen her eyes, and show an expression of shock. Obviously that's what action brackets are for, but I personally wouldn't use them for that unless I was really trying to emphasize the excitement, or needed to break a series of dialogue lines up.

Don't think of dialogue in terms of a movie. Think of it as if it really happened to you. Say it out loud, or imagine your girlfriend saying it out loud, or your best friend or parents. Sometimes it looks good on paper, but doesn't sound right spoken.

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 20, 2005

sspunisher said:
I'm not anywhere near as experienced as anyone else on here, but my personal thoughts on dialogue:

I think the shorter the better. Because it's how people really talk. Humans use certain mannerisms, raise and lower their voices, use hand gestures, make certain facial expressions that eliminate a lot of words that tend to sneak up on us in scripts.

What I do is write the script as it should be. Every character says what needs to be said, even if it's 5 lines long. When I get stuck in the story, and when I still feel like writing, I go back and reread my script. That's when I start cutting out words and rewording lines, making everything more compact and realistic, and then give trust that the actor will be competent enough to say his lines correctly.

I think a common trap most people fall into is spelling everything out to the viewer/reader in the dialogue. Here's an example, based on Jane's reaction.

JOHN DOE
Guess what Jane? I got the job!

JANE DOE
Oh my god, are you serious!?

(as opposed to)

JOHN DOE
Guess what Jane? I got the job!

JANE DOE
Yea!?

It's a crappy example, but you know what I mean. Both convey the same thing, disbelief and excitement. But you reduced it by five words, simply by putting faith into the actress. Maybe she'll tilt her head, widen her eyes, and show an expression of shock. Obviously that's what action brackets are for, but I personally wouldn't use them for that unless I was really trying to emphasize the excitement, or needed to break a series of dialogue lines up.

Don't think of dialogue in terms of a movie. Think of it as if it really happened to you. Say it out loud, or imagine your girlfriend saying it out loud, or your best friend or parents. Sometimes it looks good on paper, but doesn't sound right spoken.

Hey I totally agree. After reading a book on screenplay writing and experiecing rewrites I too realize you start out with a lot and you eventually cut the fat wherever you can. I have been trying to do that. And you're right about saying it out loud, thats why I mentioned it. It seems like thats the only way I'll probably get it right in the long run.

TheRuleofThirds · Jul 20, 2005

The best scripts I've seen lately were written by the same guys who directed them. Those movies were Sneakers by Phil Alden Robinson and Batman Begins by Chris Nolan. Both had very lean dialogue, to the point, but spoke volumes in a few short words.

Don't think of dialogue in terms of a movie. Think of it as if it really happened to you. Say it out loud, or imagine your girlfriend saying it out loud, or your best friend or parents. Sometimes it looks good on paper, but doesn't sound right spoken.

I'd disagree with ya. Good movie dialogue is what real life dialogue wishes it could be. It always cuts to the chase, it's snappy, and it's not boring.

One thing that always causes for exciting dialogue is creating a conflict in every scene. I've been taught that every scene should go from good to bad or from bad to good. Also, never put only two people in a room at the same time who agree with each other. They've got to disagree or else you get the Land of the Happy People and it's incredibly boring.

Actions should be pretty short and to-the-point too. Not to mention exciting!

Boo_Radley · Jul 20, 2005

I write loads and loads of dialogue in my first draft. At that point, I just want to get what's in my head down on paper. Once the rewrites start, I chisel away at the dialogue, succintness being the main goal.

How often I've achieved that goal, however, is something else entirely. To borrow a line from Steve Martin, "I'm a ramblin' guy."

sspunisher · Jul 20, 2005

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 20, 2005

sspunisher said:
RuleofThirds,
I was referring to the believability of the lines, not the excitement of them. But I agree with you.

There's obviously a fine line somewhere between believability and excitement, and having great dialogue means knowing when, where, and in which direction to cross that line.

If I can only find the super secret, magical formula now...

That is so true. For example my best script is based on real life events so I have a conceived notion of how its said. Sometimes the reality of how it is said is outrageous so I had to tone it down. Certain lines ive just said srew it and try to make it as realistic as possible to the character.

StephieM · Jul 20, 2005

GonnaBeFamous said:
I have a really good script I think after only revision 3. It was horrible before, too much racism, too much repetitiveness and no emotional attachment to the protaonist. Now it is much better. Only problem is the dialogue needs some work. Am I basically going to have to read it out loud and try to act the scenes to perfect it? Or will my dialogue eventually come to me after maybe revision 6(I plan on doing 6 revisions total so I won't be done till december, i take a month off between revisions).

Also I said my script was good but one thingabout it is a lot of the scenes take place in a persons apatment, people entering or leaving. Is this necessarily a bad thing? I don't want to be overrepetitve but it IS a comedy and I noticed certainblack comedies will have it take place at a persons house like Friday etc.

The main thing to look at when going over your dialogue is to make sure each character stands out in his or her own voice. You should be able to cover up the names and determine who is saying what. If they all sound the same, then you have a big problem. Also like some of the others said, dialogue should be as short as possible, moving the story forward.

As for your scenes taking place mostly in someone's apartment and the people leaving and entering, it really depends on how good or bad your script is. I'd have to read the script in order to give you an honest opinion.

As good as you say it is, I am really curious to read it. We could probally help you out a lot more if you posted it.

Steph

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 20, 2005

Stephanie76 said:
The main thing to look at when going over your dialogue is to make sure each character stands out in his or her own voice. You should be able to cover up the names and determine who is saying what. If they all sound the same, then you have a big problem. Also like some of the others said, dialogue should be as short as possible, moving the story forward.

As for your scenes taking place mostly in someone's apartment and the people leaving and entering, it really depends on how good or bad your script is. I'd have to read the script in order to give you an honest opinion.

As good as you say it is, I am really curious to read it. We could probally help you out a lot more if you posted it.

Steph

Its a good script because the characters are in their true format(inspired by real life) and they are unique. It's quite a bit of shock value, but a lot of it is in undertones of comedy since its a comedy. The antagonist was being too nice in scene 2 with protagonist shortly after meeting and after a few revisions now I have the antagonist being very blunt. I realized i struggled before because I thought it was being too blunt, but now I realize this is good even though its a bit shocking because it setsup the tone for the restof the comeday and it actually is kind of funny too the way she says it. It's got serious moments too but probably not enough to be labled a comedy-drama. Ever seen the movie spun? It's sorta wild like that. Definitely geared for the 15 to 25 audience (What hollwood is lookingfor

) I dont know if Spun was made by hollwood though. Mine isnt any more shocking then that movie, but if spun didn't get stuido production I think mine would be suitable for independant market.

I would love to give the logline and my script but until i get it registered and revised it to perfection(in my eyes a few more times) I'm not showing anything.

dpaterso · Jul 21, 2005

I'm just sayin'

If you ask me, not that anyone ever does, it's the character reaction that counts, not just the words -- and it's what comes next, the promise of the dialogue going somewhere and/or telling us something about the people.

Alt. scenario #1:

JOHN DOE
I got the job! Kneel before your master!

JANE DOE
So you'll be working with Miss Slinky Hips?

Alt. scenario #2:

JOHN DOE
Me and a bunch of guys got laid off.

JANE DOE
I'm pregnant.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity.

scripter1 · Jul 21, 2005

I have one word for you.

SUBTEXT.

dpaterso · Jul 21, 2005

I have 3 words for you

Show, don't tell.

You're limited to 2 characters and 2 lines of dialogue, as in above examples.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity.

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 21, 2005

I've been showing alot in this movie, where they move if the smoke a cigarette, what they do when they ignore or laugh at the person. I need to slim up the narrative a bit in a few places cause it's gotten heavy.

NikeeGoddess · Jul 21, 2005

character's dialogue

dp's example is a good one

non-verbal communication is just as, if not more effective than words.

most people don't speak in perfect sentences.

most people speak differently when they're in front of their girlfriend than they do in front of their mother or their boss.

to reduce the redundancy - start your scenes late in the conversation. if a topic was discussed earlier and someone is relaying the same information then start that 2nd scene after the information has been given. does that make sense?

you also need to focus on character and his/her personal speaking style. think of the difference in the voices of Jack Black's character and Hank's character in Orange County. think of the diff character voices in The Usual Suspects.... one guy spoke so poorly that he could have used subtitles. there's nothing wrong with exaggerating them; esp in a comedy.

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 21, 2005

NikeeGoddess said:
dp's example is a good one

non-verbal communication is just as, if not more effective than words.

most people don't speak in perfect sentences.

most people speak differently when they're in front of their girlfriend than they do in front of their mother or their boss.

to reduce the redundancy - start your scenes late in the conversation. if a topic was discussed earlier and someone is relaying the same information then start that 2nd scene after the information has been given. does that make sense?

you also need to focus on character and his/her personal speaking style. think of the difference in the voices of Jack Black's character and Hank's character in Orange County. think of the diff character voices in The Usual Suspects.... one guy spoke so poorly that he could have used subtitles. there's nothing wrong with exaggerating them; esp in a comedy.

Yeah it's a comedy, both of the main characters have a definite unique style to them and it sounds exaggerated, but a lot of it is similiar to how they would have said it(since it's inspired by real life they just it more snappier and slightly more PC).

NikeeGoddess · Jul 21, 2005

well, i say...

phuck PC
give us the real goods which can be reader candy

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 21, 2005

NikeeGoddess said:
phuck PC
give us the real goods which can be reader candy

My script is very un PC, the problem was you have to have a protagonist and by having my character too violent and too angry too and especially racist it gave the vibe as being more of being on the fence. So I kept themslightly violent, slightly perverted, but left out racismand some of the violence and perversion for the sake of making them appear more as a victim. You'd have to read the script to undertand more, but oh well.

StephieM · Jul 21, 2005

"I would love to give the logline and my script but until i get it registered and revised it to perfection(in my eyes a few more times) I'm not showing anything."

I really hope you're not worried about someone stealing your script or even the concept of your script. First of all, all you need is to post a few pages, preferably the first ten, not the whole thing. I doubt anyone here is looking to steal anyone's script, we're all in the same boat and we all have our own ideas. If you think a certain scene is a little off kilter, post it, and we'll tell you what we think. The worst that could happen is that you might realize you need more work than you thought, or depending how you look at it, it may be the best thing that could happen.

Steph

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 21, 2005

Stephanie76 said:
"I would love to give the logline and my script but until i get it registered and revised it to perfection(in my eyes a few more times) I'm not showing anything."

I really hope you're not worried about someone stealing your script or even the concept of your script. First of all, all you need is to post a few pages, preferably the first ten, not the whole thing. I doubt anyone here is looking to steal anyone's script, we're all in the same boat and we all have our own ideas. If you think a certain scene is a little off kilter, post it, and we'll tell you what we think. The worst that could happen is that you might realize you need more work than you thought, or depending how you look at it, it may be the best thing that could happen.

Steph

I'm not worried about YOu or even most of the writers here so much, I'm worried about the "guests" that lurk on the boards. My concept is pretty original and specific I think, so I'd only feel comfortable if I registered it first. I will eventually post my scripts it's just going to be a few months after they are copyrighted and registered. Sure it might be paranoid, but this one is the one I want to be my future show script so I don't want it floating around till I'm protected EVEN IF i find out from others criticism it still needs work. So I will show it, just not yet.

BTW, Does anyone post their full scripts here after they register? I see a lot of 10 pagers.

zagoraz · Jul 22, 2005

I doubt anyone here would take the time to critique an entire script, unless you knew them personally and e-mailed it to them (which does happen occasionally here).

If you're that worried about someone stealing your work, you'd probably be better off posting it here. Once you have it on the net, you've got instant proof that it's yours, because anyone can look and see when you posted it. Kinda like mailing a copy of your script to yourself and never opening it. Doesn't protect you in the true legal sense, but it starts a paper trail anyway. And seriously, if someone has to resort to stealing screenplay ideas from a message board then the chances of them ever turning it into a decent script are probably slim to none.

Live a little, my friend. Throw caution to the wind. Let's see what you got.

Joe Calabrese · Jul 22, 2005

Definately Don't Post an Entire Script here.

As you all know, we've been crashing lately and it is in part to the bytes stored.

The forum is strained as it is and I think it would be best to limit the pages submited to 5-8 for the time being, until Jenna get's the hosting situation fixed.

Afterwards 10 pages is the limit, unless you send a request for readers to email (as I did a last week). Also, you may want to delete your old posts with samples. If you can't, I can do it for you.

GonnaBeFamous · Jul 22, 2005

zagoraz said:
I doubt anyone here would take the time to critique an entire script, unless you knew them personally and e-mailed it to them (which does happen occasionally here).

If you're that worried about someone stealing your work, you'd probably be better off posting it here. Once you have it on the net, you've got instant proof that it's yours, because anyone can look and see when you posted it. Kinda like mailing a copy of your script to yourself and never opening it. Doesn't protect you in the true legal sense, but it starts a paper trail anyway. And seriously, if someone has to resort to stealing screenplay ideas from a message board then the chances of them ever turning it into a decent script are probably slim to none.

Live a little, my friend. Throw caution to the wind. Let's see what you got.

I didn't mention this earlier, but I read from a novelist that never to get a critique about it until its been done completely and ready to send to the publisher. He said that if they say something critical you won't want to listen and if they say anything good then it won't help you any. I think he's right when you think about it. What do you think?

NikeeGoddess · Jul 22, 2005

so...

show it, or don't show it. it's up to you. but, you must be able to expose yourself eventually. many people show their crap way too soon and get discouraged by the comments. but, some learn from it and realize how much they don't know and work hard to improve. you have to know yourself and how you work. forget about the process of another writer....that's not you.

tis true that you shouldn't show your work too soon. register it/copyright it first. but it's more important who you show your work to too soon. never show your work too soon to anyone who has the ability to buy, market or greenlight in some way (producers, managers, agents) your project. you won't find many on the messageboards. and most people will agree that you shouldn't spend hundreds of dollars on a consultant until you've screened it partially by we freebies.

Tips on making dialogue Movie quality?

GonnaBeFamous

sspunisher

GonnaBeFamous

TheRuleofThirds

practical experience, FTW

Boo_Radley

100% Death Proof

sspunisher

GonnaBeFamous

StephieM

back in action!

GonnaBeFamous

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

scripter1

Article Queen

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

GonnaBeFamous

NikeeGoddess

GonnaBeFamous

NikeeGoddess

GonnaBeFamous

StephieM

back in action!

GonnaBeFamous

zagoraz

Joe Calabrese

GonnaBeFamous

NikeeGoddess