Non-consensual sex?

Misa Buckley · Oct 28, 2009

I've had an idea for my sci fi novel, but I'm not sure whether to go ahead and include it or not.

The scene involves my MCs. The guy has been in a regime where sex is just for physical relief and procreation. The girl is a bit of a flirt and constantly pushes his buttons... only one day she pushes too hard.

Some other stuff to bear in mind - the scene is not explicit or aimed at being arousing, and while she doesn't say yes she doesn't say no either (it's later discovered she could have stopped him but wanted to see if he would stop himself).

There is huge fallout from this. It's pretty much the turning point of the novel from the view of MCs' relationship. They end up seperated from that point until fairly close to the end of the novel.

They have to seperate for the plot to work, and it has to be on a personal level. I'm just not sure if the bone of contention is acceptable.

scarletpeaches · Oct 28, 2009

If it's not meant to arouse I'd say it was okay...when you say 'not explicit', how detailed are you?

I'd maybe focus on what's going on in her mind rather than her undercrackers.

Misa Buckley · Oct 28, 2009

Detailed enough that the reader knows what happens; it's certainly not a pleasant scene. When I say it's not explicit, I meant more that it's not erotic.

Whichever character takes POV, I'll be in their mind - it is more about the mental aspect than the physical one.

Maybe this isn't a question I can answer until the scene and the fallout is written.

veinglory · Oct 28, 2009

As a plot point I can see how it would work, but I would suggest making the woman's ultimate control of the situation clear to the readers from the outset.

mscelina · Oct 28, 2009

veinglory said:
As a plot point I can see how it would work, but I would suggest making the woman's ultimate control of the situation clear to the readers from the outset.

Bingo. Most publishers won't accept anything that even smells like a rape scene. I got away with one that was basically a rape BUT the female enjoyed it the whole time. (paranormal-psychic control-yada yada yada) There's a fine line between restraint fantasies and rape and you've got to learn how to walk it well.

That being said, I recently sent back an erotica to a writer who managed to make both her characters unlikable and their first intercourse scene into something that made BDSM look like child's play. So the first major step with you characters? It's to make the male sympathetic to the reader. That makes it a lot harder for someone to think of him as a rapist.

Misa Buckley · Oct 28, 2009

veinglory said:
As a plot point I can see how it would work, but I would suggest making the woman's ultimate control of the situation clear to the readers from the outset.

I agree. But would it matter that the reason she submits is kept back?

It wouldn't be for long, since there's a confrontation with others over what's happened, but the guy doesn't realise she made a choice until that scene.

veinglory · Oct 28, 2009

As a reader, the second I felt the 'hero' protag had committed rape I would stop reading.

You can clue in the reader even while maintaining the male POV throughout and showing that he is deceived and how he feels.

Misa Buckley · Oct 28, 2009

It's a difficult point. Not the least because I'm playing with a different morality system. The system will be well established before the scene in question, as will the guy's attitude towards sex.

My plan is to have an almost immediate shift of POV afterwards, because the character development will be with the guy. He does feel guilty, which is an alien concept, and he does question the validity of what he did.

That is why the scene is important - because the reader is seeing a further erosion of the very austere, very confined regime that's dominated his personality.

I could fade to black at the point where the fight becomes sexual, but I think that would make it seem like a rape and would make the reader hate the MC. They might anyway, but I want them to keep reading and understand his motivations.

It's a tricky situation. There are a lot of elements in play. Hopefully I can balance them out.

JS Emuakpor · Nov 4, 2009

Rape bad.

The reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of rape or near-rape scenes in SFF as a way to further the plot. Have you considered using some other foul act? Even if your female MC is the one with the power, rape sort of implies that men are a bunch of brainless assholes that go through life running after their dicks. It makes your male MC weak, which is utterly unlikable. And makes your female MC a bit of a jerk.

That is my humble opinion, but I could be wrong.

Ruth2 · Nov 5, 2009

Hmm, coming across this I have a question (of course I have a question): I have a rape scene in my WIP. Two men rape my female MC. One is a weak male that has been corrupted by my villain; the other is the villain himself and he is a nasty piece of goods. Nothing enjoyable about the sex at all. The rape does set up most of the last part of the book in one way or the other. If I change it or remove, the rest of the WIP will have to be vastly rewritten.

Should I just throw in the towel on this? It is a paranormal (vampire) erotic romance; all but the most peripheral characters are related in some form or fashion which also means most of the sex is incestuous, including twincest of consensual adults who must produce full blood offspring.

Glumly thinking things are bad...

JS Emuakpor · Nov 5, 2009

Ruth: rape is my pet peeve for many reasons. If it is needed to move your story along, then keep it. My real qualm is that if it really doesn't have to be rape, it shouldn't be. No matter how vastly different your novel's society is, the people reading it will still associate rape with what it is--a vile act.

If your MC performs the act, he/she could be very much hated by the readers afterward.

Ruth2 · Nov 5, 2009

My MC definitely does not perform the act. He exacts an appropo revenge before killing the perpetrator by anally impaling him, much in the same way as the villain raped my female MC. The other male is also killed, albeit in a less dramatic way.

Polenth · Nov 5, 2009

A constant complaint of SFF slush readers is stories where the male character rapes the female character, but it's okay and he's still a nice man because...

1) She flirted (or some other action), so she deserved it.
2) She wanted to be raped - she could have stopped him.
3) He was being mind-controlled.
4) She was being mind-controlled.
5) It was for her own good. The curse couldn't be broken any other way.
6) Various other excuses.

The issue isn't having a rape scene, but the way it's set up. You're making is so she could have stopped him (she wanted to be raped) and she annoyed him (she deserved it). Trying to 'soften' rape in those ways is likely to get you rejected in SFF. Judging from how often slush readers complain about it, they get a lot of stories like that.

JS Emuakpor · Nov 6, 2009

Polenth said:
Judging from how often slush readers complain about it, they get a lot of stories like that.

What she said.

RobinGBrown · Nov 11, 2009

Personally I think that rape is a bad thing to put in any fiction. It's ugly and unpleasant to say the least. Every work of fiction I've seen with a rape scene could have been done differently.

Please find a different way to do it, there's a million other reasons for two people to fall out.

scarletpeaches · Nov 11, 2009

Please DON'T find a different way to do it. Yes, rape is unpleasant but if we sanitised our books we'd never have swearing, rape, drunkenness, lawbreaking, rudeness, cruelty to children or people being a wee bit nasty to each other.

If you want your fiction to be realistic, it has to reflect what goes on in the real world.

That's not to say you should feature rape just for the sake of it - by neither should you remove it from the story if that's what works best.

I for one have read many books featuring rape and think if they'd been written differently they would have been far different books. Better books? No.

Personally I think headjumping, info dumps and 'as you know, Bob' dialogue are far worse things to put in a novel.

JS Emuakpor · Nov 12, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
If you want your fiction to be realistic, it has to reflect what goes on in the real world.

That's not to say you should feature rape just for the sake of it - by neither should you remove it from the story if that's what works best.

This is true, if realistic is what you are looking for. I'm not sure how realistic it is for a woman to let a man rape her when she can stop it--unless she's into that sort of thing. But then the sex becomes consensual, doesn't it (even if he doesn't know it is)? But it still makes the woman a bit of a jerk and the man a mindless dick-slinger.

I agree that it should be left in if it is what works best, but one should really think hard about putting a rape scene into a novel--especially if you want the readers to be sympathetic towards the perpetrator.

veinglory · Nov 12, 2009

Also, this is the erotica section, so keeping it real is oftne less important than keeping it sexy. A lot of your potential readers, myself included, don't put rape or apparent rape in that categpory. Some people do, but you are limiting your audience.

scarletpeaches · Nov 12, 2009

veinglory said:
Also, this is the erotica section, so keeping it real is oftne less important than keeping it sexy. A lot of your potential readers, myself included, don't put rape or apparent rape in that categpory. Some people do, but you are limiting your audience.

That's very true and a point I often forget, although I still go for some degree of realism to make it believable.

A few days ago I asked Lori if she ever found herself abbreviating the sex scenes to get to the orgasm quicker, to avoid having pages and pages of description and she said, "Oh god yeah."

So I'm not the only one - and it's true that sexy >>> strictly according to real life, although I'm all for showing the (ahem) ins and outs.

Non-consensual sex?

Misa Buckley

Extraordinary Romance

scarletpeaches

Misa Buckley

Extraordinary Romance

veinglory

volitare nequeo

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

Misa Buckley

Extraordinary Romance

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Misa Buckley

Extraordinary Romance

JS Emuakpor

I lurk. Therefore, I am.

Ruth2

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

JS Emuakpor

I lurk. Therefore, I am.

Ruth2

Tam, na Koncu Drevoreda

Polenth

Mushroom

JS Emuakpor

I lurk. Therefore, I am.

RobinGBrown

New kid, be gentle!

scarletpeaches

JS Emuakpor

I lurk. Therefore, I am.

veinglory

volitare nequeo

scarletpeaches