New to the forum

jazzman · Oct 21, 2009

Hello to all:
I'm new to this board and this is my first post. I'm in the middle of writing a "true-crime" book, which is also my first. I come here hoping to pick up some valuable writing tips from folks who've already been there, done that.

I know the cards are stacked against me. At 79 years old, I'm probably not as sharp and as alert as I should be or used to be. But with your help and with Grandma Moses as inspiration, and if I can just stay awake long enough, I figure I might be able to get through it.

Is there any advice out there on selecting and paying a good editor? What should I know about that dynamic? What are the pitfalls? How about an agent?

I'm looking forward to coming back from time to time to read all the comments on this forum. (Well - maybe not 'all')

StoryG27 · Oct 21, 2009

to AW!

jazzman said:
Hello to all:
I know the cards are stacked against me. At 79 years old, I'm probably not as sharp and as alert as I should be or used to be. But with your help and with Grandma Moses as inspiration, and if I can just stay awake long enough, I figure I might be able to get through it.

Hey, I'm thirty and have problems staying awake long enough to get some quality work done. So you're in good company.

Is there any advice out there on selecting and paying a good editor? What should I know about that dynamic? What are the pitfalls? How about an agent?

There is a lot of information on editors and agents in the Bewares and Backgrounds Check threads and probably the FAQ threads too. One hint, an acquisitions editor should never charge you to read your work.

I'm looking forward to coming back from time to time to read all the comments on this forum. (Well - maybe not 'all')

Have fun. Poke around the different threads and make yourself at home!

underthecity · Oct 23, 2009

jazzman said:
I know the cards are stacked against me. At 79 years old, I'm probably not as sharp and as alert as I should be or used to be. But with your help and with Grandma Moses as inspiration, and if I can just stay awake long enough, I figure I might be able to get through it.

First off, welcome to AW! There are more fiction writers here than nonfiction, but writing is writing, so I would encourage you visit as many different forums at AW and meet some people and get acquainted with all the different aspects of writing.

Also, good writing knows no age, so don't let your "advanced years" be any kind of detriment. In fact, you know more about life than many of us, so use that to your advantage. And when you do need encouragement, post your troubles in the appropriate forum and other writers will help guide you through it.

Is there any advice out there on selecting and paying a good editor? What should I know about that dynamic? What are the pitfalls? How about an agent?

Since you said you're in the middle of writing your book, you don't need to worry right now about editors or agents.

Stepping ahead, though regarding editors, it's always considered best to edit your own material. Assume you pay an outside editor, say, $1,000 (ballpark figure) to edit your book. Now, right off you are that much in the red. Can you trust that person to do a good job for that kind of money? Secondly, what if your book never sells? Now you are minus a thousand bucks and are holding an unsold manuscript.

One of the best books on editing is Self Editing For Fiction Writers, available on amazon used or new. Even though the title says "fiction," it's relevant for nonfiction as well. I would recommend you get this book (also available at your library) and read it and use its methods.

Now, I'm sure you've already done this, but I would also recommend studying the style of other true-crime books to see that yours follows the same basic format.

Regarding agents, since it's a nonfiction true-crime book, you could start reading up on what agents are looking for in that regard. Start at agentquery and search for agents that accept true crime. Read their submission requirements on their website. I've never queried true crime before, but since it falls under the category of nonfiction, you might be able to query with a proposal first before completing the book. Read this page for a little more info regarding true crime and proposals.

ETA: And from this page, Miss Snark (a literary agent) says this, regarding true crime:

Bottom line: you'll need a proposal AND a full manuscript, proposal first.

Hope this helps, and good luck on your project.

Thrillride · Oct 23, 2009

jazzman said:
Hello to all:
I'm new to this board and this is my first post. I'm in the middle of writing a "true-crime" book, which is also my first. I come here hoping to pick up some valuable writing tips from folks who've already been there, done that.

I know the cards are stacked against me. At 79 years old, I'm probably not as sharp and as alert as I should be or used to be. But with your help and with Grandma Moses as inspiration, and if I can just stay awake long enough, I figure I might be able to get through it.

Is there any advice out there on selecting and paying a good editor? What should I know about that dynamic? What are the pitfalls? How about an agent?

I'm looking forward to coming back from time to time to read all the comments on this forum. (Well - maybe not 'all')

Welcome! Storygirl and underthecity had great advice for you - I'd like to address your age. Right there is the beauty of writing. The odds are NOT stacked against you at 79. If you stay the course and keep writing, you'll learn more than you ever thought could be learned in a decent amount of time. My personal opinion is that I needed to get older before I could truly pull this stuff off in a serious way (not that young people don't get there, too - just sayin').

I think being older actually has it's advantages. For one, you tend to know how to learn. I know when I was younger, I didn't understand all the roadblocks I threw up in front of myself while trying to learn (pride, insecurity, fear, etc). I know exactly how to learn now - and I'm good at it!

Also, at 79, you should be brilliant by now.

Write. Enjoy.

Gatita · Oct 28, 2009

Just want to add my welcome! You're getting good advice here.

I'm also writing a true crime book, so I hope we can share tips and cheer each other on...

TrixieBelden · Nov 11, 2009

Im a true crime writer as well. Welcome and enjoy!

michellek · Nov 12, 2009

jazzman said:
Hello to all:
I'm new to this board and this is my first post. I'm in the middle of writing a "true-crime" book, which is also my first. I come here hoping to pick up some valuable writing tips from folks who've already been there, done that.

I know the cards are stacked against me. At 79 years old, I'm probably not as sharp and as alert as I should be or used to be. But with your help and with Grandma Moses as inspiration, and if I can just stay awake long enough, I figure I might be able to get through it.

Is there any advice out there on selecting and paying a good editor? What should I know about that dynamic? What are the pitfalls? How about an agent?

I'm looking forward to coming back from time to time to read all the comments on this forum. (Well - maybe not 'all')

Welcome!

This forum is awsome!

Wayne K · Nov 12, 2009

to AW. My life was a true crime.

Autodidact · Nov 12, 2009

Welcome. I love True Crime--consider it my literary vice. I don't think age is an issue or problem, as long as you're still open to learning. May I ask what case you're focusing on? (Don't answer if you're worried about us stealing from you, although that doesn't happen here.) Have you read anything about book proposals, etc.? The reason I ask is that you don't have to write the book before trying to find a publisher.

I've been reading up on the Scott Lee Kimball case here in Colorado and idly musing about it as a True Crime book.

One thing about True Crime is that a lot of the writing isn't that good and it gets published anyway. That's me trying to be encouraging. Seriously, go for it.

erinbee · Nov 12, 2009

Welcome, Jazzman! Always good to meet a fellow nonfiction writer

AgentJade · Nov 13, 2009

Welcome and all the best of luck on your project!

nitaworm · Nov 13, 2009

Welcome. You are never too old to live your dream.

TrixieBelden · Nov 14, 2009

Autodidact said:
One thing about True Crime is that a lot of the writing isn't that good and it gets published anyway. That's me trying to be encouraging. Seriously, go for it.

ROFLMAO! Truer words were never spoken!

The day the killing started...

Autodidact · Nov 14, 2009

I've read hundreds of tripe-alicious True Crime paperbacks. Any other fans here? Do you agree: it must have the pictures in the middle? No pictures in the middle, no read the book.

Autodidact · Nov 14, 2009

Whoa, Trixie, just clicked on your link. NOT bad writing. Rough stuff. Are you working on a book?

TrixieBelden · Nov 15, 2009

Awww, thanks Auto. Yes I am but its slow going as I write for a living too. Tons of web content, tech manuals and other boring sh*t that takes up valuable time but pays the bills. Thank you very, very much for the compliment.
BTW- I am of the same mind- no pictures- no read!
Im currently reading "In His Garden" about the Anthone Costa murders. Its old but pretty good and lots of pics!

underthecity · Nov 15, 2009

TrixieBelden said:
Yes I am but its slow going as I write for a living too. Tons of web content, tech manuals and other boring sh*t that takes up valuable time but pays the bills.

Must be nice.

ETA: It's been about a month; I don't think jazzman's coming back.

Autodidact · Nov 16, 2009

Hey Trixie, I've been looking into this Scott Lee Kimball case. Are you up on it? It just screams True Crime to me. I bet someone's interviewing those dads even as I type. What do you think?

TrixieBelden · Nov 16, 2009

Oh yes, Auto. I have heard and read about it since his arrest. Interesting stuff. I'd buy your book!

jazzman · May 14, 2010

Thanks and a cry for help

Autodidact said:
Welcome. I love True Crime--consider it my literary vice. I don't think age is an issue or problem, as long as you're still open to learning. May I ask what case you're focusing on? (Don't answer if you're worried about us stealing from you, although that doesn't happen here.) Have you read anything about book proposals, etc.? The reason I ask is that you don't have to write the book before trying to find a publisher.

I've been reading up on the Scott Lee Kimball case here in Colorado and idly musing about it as a True Crime book.

One thing about True Crime is that a lot of the writing isn't that good and it gets published anyway. That's me trying to be encouraging. Seriously, go for it.

I appreciate all the kind words and encouragement -- from everybody. To answer your question, I'm writing about the brutal massacre in 1952 of Guard Young and three of his children, which for some strange reason, has haunted me since the day it happened.The book has several interesting angles including an Oscar winning movie, a foreword written by the only survivor, black and white photos of the murder scene, all the victims, the perpetrators and their trials, plus 3 gas chamber executions and a ton of death row drama.

And I could use some help. Here's the scenario: Three children, 31/2, 6 and 7 are being herded into a circle where the killer intends to bludgeon them to death. They are fully aware of what's going to happen to them and of course they are more than terrified. How would you describe their facial expressions? In fact, how would you describe the whole scene?

Truman Capote once said in an interview after writing "In Cold Blood" that in writing this book, the most difficult thing for him was having to write about the murder scene because of its high emotional demands. That's the problem I've been having. Would you like to take a shot?

Any help you can offer, believe me, will be greatly appreciated.

jazzman · May 14, 2010

More thanks

underthecity said:
First off, welcome to AW! There are more fiction writers here than nonfiction, but writing is writing, so I would encourage you visit as many different forums at AW and meet some people and get acquainted with all the different aspects of writing.

Also, good writing knows no age, so don't let your "advanced years" be any kind of detriment. In fact, you know more about life than many of us, so use that to your advantage. And when you do need encouragement, post your troubles in the appropriate forum and other writers will help guide you through it.

Since you said you're in the middle of writing your book, you don't need to worry right now about editors or agents.

Stepping ahead, though regarding editors, it's always considered best to edit your own material. Assume you pay an outside editor, say, $1,000 (ballpark figure) to edit your book. Now, right off you are that much in the red. Can you trust that person to do a good job for that kind of money? Secondly, what if your book never sells? Now you are minus a thousand bucks and are holding an unsold manuscript.

One of the best books on editing is Self Editing For Fiction Writers, available on amazon used or new. Even though the title says "fiction," it's relevant for nonfiction as well. I would recommend you get this book (also available at your library) and read it and use its methods.

Now, I'm sure you've already done this, but I would also recommend studying the style of other true-crime books to see that yours follows the same basic format.

Regarding agents, since it's a nonfiction true-crime book, you could start reading up on what agents are looking for in that regard. Start at agentquery and search for agents that accept true crime. Read their submission requirements on their website. I've never queried true crime before, but since it falls under the category of nonfiction, you might be able to query with a proposal first before completing the book. Read this page for a little more info regarding true crime and proposals.

ETA: And from this page, Miss Snark (a literary agent) says this, regarding true crime:

Bottom line: you'll need a proposal AND a full manuscript, proposal first.

Hope this helps, and good luck on your project.

Sorry it's been so long since my last post here. I just couldn't find my way back. On your advice I have ordered the Self Editing for Fiction Writers book from Amazon. I notice that it had received many great reviews, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it relates to my project.

Now that I know how to find this site (I have it bookmarked now) I'll be visiting a lot more often.

Thanks again.

Thrillride · May 15, 2010

jazzman said:
Sorry it's been so long since my last post here. I just couldn't find my way back. On your advice I have ordered the Self Editing for Fiction Writers book from Amazon. I notice that it had received many great reviews, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it relates to my project.

Now that I know how to find this site (I have it bookmarked now) I'll be visiting a lot more often.

Thanks again.

This is an excellent book!

New to the forum

jazzman

StoryG27

Miss Behave

underthecity

Finestkind

Thrillride

A Suburban Farmer

Gatita

Girl reporter

TrixieBelden

michellek

Wayne K

Autodidact

...in my Maidenform Bra.

erinbee

slanted and enchanted

AgentJade

nitaworm

AW Addict

TrixieBelden

Autodidact

...in my Maidenform Bra.

Autodidact

...in my Maidenform Bra.

TrixieBelden

underthecity

Finestkind

Autodidact

...in my Maidenform Bra.

TrixieBelden

jazzman

jazzman

Thrillride

A Suburban Farmer