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How much should you listen to beta readers?

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AllieKat

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I love getting beta reader feedback on stories. Sometimes, I don't agree with some of the comments. Such as for instance when a beta tells me to use fewer fragments. I consider using fragments to be part of my style.

Sometimes betas give suggestions and corrections that are more personal preference than gospel truth. (I know, because I've done it, and I'm always very careful to add that this is my opinion, and you should do what you want.)

I feel honor bound to listen to my betas (after all, they took the time and energy to read, comment, and suggest). But sometimes I feel like it changes my style.

Is there a better way to handle this? Should I ignore them sometimes? Especially if the beta reader will see my story when it's done, I don't feel free to do this without alienating them. Which I don't want to do. Even if I have to cut out fragments. :e2writer:
 

Libbie

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Only feel honor-bound to listen to them in as far as you appreciate their feedback. You don't have to make the changes they suggest. Like you said, one man's sentence fragment is another's voice. It's not going to strike every reader the same way.

It's always good to hear different perspectives on one's writing, but you shouldn't feel like you have to accept all their criticisms. :)
 

backslashbaby

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Really consider what they say, but so many things are subjective you're bound to not use some advice. Don't worry at all about them seeing that you didn't use their advice! Unless it's a group project or something ;)
 

Misa Buckley

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AllieKat, this should be something you raise with your beta reader.

Usually beta readers will say that the changes they made are only their opinion. I know I do. Then again, I've usually found out what level critique is required first - whether it's just a read-through or a detailed pick-apart.
 

jjacobs

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You don't have to take all of the advice a beta reader gives you, but you should at least consider it all... more than once. Beta readers are a set of fresh eyes. They don't know your story, which gives them the advantage of pointing out confusing parts, plot holes, and various other mistakes. If you disagree with their advice the first time you read it, then sleep on it and read it again. A lot of times they're probably right and you're too stubborn to change what you've written (I suffer from this problem).

With that said, there are times when you've read it three or four times over the period of several days and you still disagree. That's the beauty of writing. It's subjective. Don't take their advice in that instance. If you're still stuck, then get a third opinion on the disagreement you and your beta reader are having.
 

Cyia

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You should also remember that in terms of voice there are always people who yammer away in the most annoying tone imaginable, but are oblivious to it. Yes, it's the way they speak, but that doesn't mean people want to hear it.

If the fragments are jarring, or stall the flow of the story so much that the reader realizes they're fragments, there's an execution problem. Read it out loud and see how it sounds in your ears.
 

ishtar'sgate

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I'm sure you've heard the expression 'too many cooks spoil the soup'. Too many opinions can do the same thing. Choose a beta who has given you sound advice in the past and stick with them. Novel writing is not by group consensus. It's YOUR work. A good beta will not say "you should write it like this". A good beta will simply tell you where your writing isn't clear and where things don't flow or seem to work well. It's up to you to rectify the problem.
 

AllieKat

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You should also remember that in terms of voice there are always people who yammer away in the most annoying tone imaginable, but are oblivious to it. Yes, it's the way they speak, but that doesn't mean people want to hear it.

If the fragments are jarring, or stall the flow of the story so much that the reader realizes they're fragments, there's an execution problem. Read it out loud and see how it sounds in your ears.

And that's another possibility! Just in case that's true, I'll probably take the beta's advice--this time, at least. :)

Er, I mean...that question was purely hypothetical. Okay, maybe not. :eek:

Thank you all for your thoughts & advice!!! :D
 

Shadow_Ferret

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I'm sure you've heard the expression 'too many cooks spoil the soup'. Too many opinions can do the same thing.

I agree. I was involved in a few writing workshops where you'd give a copy to everyone then get it back and see that they all had a different opinion on the story. On the same scene you could have a "loved it!" a "this doesn't work for me," a "this is unclear," a "a little work and this is gold" and so on.

I'm a believer that writing is a solitary act, but a second set of eyes that shares your vision (meaning they write in a similar genre) is helpful. Sometimes we do miss things that seem glaring mistakes to others. Find a beta that gives good advice and if they're a good editor, so much the better.
 

alleycat

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And not all the betas know what they're talking about! Like the one who told me I needed to remove all my dialogue ...
That actually made me chuckle out loud. Really? If AllieKat doesn't mind, would you explain further. Surely they didn't really mean that . . . did they?
 

Linda Adams

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Yes, one of the betas really did tell me that. He was a friend of my then co-writer--I probably wouldn't have asked the guy to beta because he preferred non-fiction and didn't read a lot of fiction. He said that the narrative told the story, not the dialogue and that we needed to get rid of the dialogue.
 

backslashbaby

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That's pretty good, lol :D

My favorite beta is awesome except she has an odd habit of wanting things repeated:

...and they left for the church.

"At the church..."

^^^ I usually just go on without the second line, assuming you'll know it's a church because I'm descibing a church. But then, maybe I'm just kooky that way ;)
 

CACTUSWENDY

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This is why I don't like to do many beta readings.....

'These are only my opinion and not worth much' is my disclaimer. Some things that others like I don't find clear or like at all.

When I have my work beta read....I listen to each of their points and weigh them accordingly. So far I have been blessed with some real good insight from them.

I agree that fresh eyes are a big help. As a writer I get too close to the page sometimes....lol

If I could ....I would send flowers to each of them......but we don't have don't have a smiley for that...so they only get a .....:Trophy:
 

Red-Green

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I generally pay very close attention to beta remarks on how they reacted to the story, how they felt at different points, their degree of satisfaction with character development. On the other hand, I almost completely ignore any stylistic suggestions. Not that I consider those suggestions to be invalid, just that they tend to alter the voice of a piece, and usually by the time I get to beta readers, I have the voice solidified.
 
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It's difficult to describe the dynamic with me and tt42. She'll often make suggestions and I'll initially say, "Oh no, I couldn't, because..." and if I can't find a reason not to follow her suggestion, my thought process goes, "Well let's say I did write it that way...hmm...actually that's not bad."

At one point she even said, "Make your MC male, not female." And straight away I said, "Oh, don't be so stu- actually, wait..."

Not everyone would get away with that, though. I usually hate people telling me how to write my books. But if someone understands your vision, then fine. Betas should help you find your voice, not tell you to write the book in theirs.
 

thethinker42

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My rule of thumb with betas is this:

If one person makes a suggestion, I'll consider it.
If two people make the same suggestion, I'll REALLY consider it.
If three people make the same suggestion, change it, no question.

This doesn't apply to scarletpeaches...she reads as I write, practically reading over my shoulder, and 9 times out of 10, if she makes a suggestion, it applies. Not because I automatically do whatever she tells me to do but because she is almost always spot-on with her suggestions.
 

maestrowork

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I listen and consider my betas' comments seriously. I respect them that much, especially when they've taken the time to help me.

That doesn't mean I scramble and follow their suggestions or complaints or what not without questioning if they're right, at least for the book. I have to remember that these are opinions. I do read them all and consider them. I just don't jump when they tell me to.

Same with editors, by the way.
 
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I listen and consider my betas' comments seriously. I respect them that much, especially when they've taken the time to help me.

That doesn't mean I scramble and follow their suggestions or complaints or what not without questioning if they're right, at least for the book. I have to remember that these are opinions. I do read them all and consider them. I just don't jump when they tell me to.

Same with editors, by the way.
I think too there's a lot of translation work involved in taking a beta's comments on board.

Authors often find there's a disconnect between what's in their head and what's on the page and a beta is there to bring that to your attention. Sometimes there's a disconnect between what they're trying to tell you and what you hear.

For example, they could say "I don't like Character X." Well maybe they're trying to tell you, "His actions in chapter five are incongruous with what you reveal about his background in chapter two." And it's your job as an author to give that some thought.
 

thethinker42

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I think too there's a lot of translation work involved in taking a beta's comments on board.

Authors often find there's a disconnect between what's in their head and what's on the page and a beta is there to bring that to your attention. Sometimes there's a disconnect between what they're trying to tell you and what you hear.

For example, they could say "I don't like Character X." Well maybe they're trying to tell you, "His actions in chapter five are incongruous with what you reveal about his background in chapter two." And it's your job as an author to give that some thought.

Good point.

I've had some beta comments that didn't make sense at all. i.e., asking why a character did something in a certain paragraph, when the following paragraph spells it out in neon lights. When something like that comes up, I'll pause and ask myself if the subsequent paragraph really DOES spell it out like I think it does, then I'll show it to another beta and see what they say. Sometimes it turns out the first beta (the alpha beta?) was right and I didn't spell things out as clearly as I thought. Other times, the secondary beta (beta beta?) confirms that the way it was written was perfectly clear, and in that case, I disregard the comment.
 

maestrowork

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Certainly, and that's why we must seriously consider every comment the beta reader has. Still, they are opinions. If one person tells you something, it could just be the person didn't pay attention or understand. But if five readers tell you the same thing, then you should probably pay special notice -- perhaps something is lost in translation.

Also, sometimes betas can tell you exactly what you want to hear, even though they think "something is wrong." For example, my betas all said they found my MC rather unlikable in the beginning and that the relationship he had was strained. That gave them discomfort and they wondered if my MC should be likable, lovable. But that was exactly the effect I wanted, and I knew I did it right if they felt that way.

But when the readers (especially more than a few) have the opposite reactions than I hoped for, then I know something is wrong.
 
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