Should I Trunk It?

Stunted · Oct 5, 2009

What would you do if you were in my situation?

I've been working on it for roughly a year and a half, but there was a had a manuscript that you'd been working on solidly for about a year with a sad, inactive period of a few months in the middle. Even after all this work and love, the novel still isn't fun to read. The first few scenes are awful and conflictless. In fact, there's not much conflict going on at all. It's just one big, tan mess of "Oh...this guy's talking to me. I don't want to talk to him. I'm dissatisfied with my life in general. Oh, wait, I'm in love with that guy, but I'm uncomfortable with my feelings and don't know how to approach him." Then they have a big fight, which is pretty good, actually, but then there's just this totally inert ending and it's over.

There are scenes, here and there, that I like, and there's a stretch in the middle which may actually be good, but I'm just sick of this shit! I've been working so hard and I still have all this awful stuff around that I just don't know how to get rid of.

If you think it matters, I just started college, and my feelings about my WIP have a tendency to reflect my feelings about my life. So it may be that I'm stressed out and still adjusting and it's freaking me out novel-wise.

What should I do?

cptwentworth · Oct 5, 2009

Do you have any other ideas that you would like to start right now? Perhaps you could shelf this ms for a while until you have a little bit of detachment to it and then look at it more objectively. You might decide to scrap the main idea and save the piece in the middle you like for another story, or rewrite this one later once you've distanced yourself from it for a bit.

Juliette Wade · Oct 5, 2009

I think cpwentworth has a good suggestion. Leave it alone for a while and do something else, and that will give you a better view on the manuscript when you return to it. I'm sure you have plenty to do in college, anyway.

KTC · Oct 5, 2009

I third it. Shelf it. It's not going to crawl away. It'll be there when you're ready to return to it. Maybe next summer it'll look like something you'll be dying to tackle.

geardrops · Oct 5, 2009

What they said.

Cassiopeia · Oct 5, 2009

Start on something new. From your description I'd put it away and maybe in a couple years the answer to it will come to you.

JoNightshade · Oct 5, 2009

Stunted said:
I'm just sick of this shit!

Regardless of what you ultimately decide to do with this manuscript, when you feel like this it's time to back away. If you tackle it when you feel like it's utter crap, everything you do to "fix" it is also going to feel like crap. Trust me here.

Go clear your head with something else - another writing project, college essays, some crafts, whatever. You'll know better what you want to do when you've got some distance.

Stunted · Oct 5, 2009

Thanks everyone. I think you're all totally right. There's another novel that's been nagging at me. I'm going to focus on my schoolwork and social life and when the muse calls again, I'll get going on another novel. The trick will be to keep an eye on the old WIP and decide whether to trunk it for real or go back to it, but I'll manage.

I'm so glad I asked for your advice. I love this forum. Thanks everyone! Wish me luck!

Cassiopeia · Oct 5, 2009

Stunted said:
Thanks everyone. I think you're all totally right. There's another novel that's been nagging at me. I'm going to focus on my schoolwork and social life and when the muse calls again, I'll get going on another novel. The trick will be to keep an eye on the old WIP and decide whether to trunk it for real or go back to it, but I'll manage.

I'm so glad I asked for your advice. I love this forum. Thanks everyone! Wish me luck!

um...LOL...no, you don't keep an eye on it. You put it away. Out of sight, out of mind.

Raphee · Oct 5, 2009

Stunted said:
I'm going to focus on my schoolwork and social life and when the muse calls again, I'll get going on another novel.
Wish me luck!

Best of luck. I am sure all people on the forum have gone through what you are experiencing.

But don't wait for the muse.
Write something every day. Short stories, snippets, characters.
Don't worry much about this WIP, gears shall be working (or might be working in your head, and you might find a solution.)

Most important, try to learn what you did wrong, so that you avoid it in the future.

Phaeal · Oct 6, 2009

It sounds as if you've finished a draft of the novel. If so, you've accomplished a great deal, whatever the quality of the work.

Finishing what you start is the first big step toward being a serious writer.

"Practice" novels come with the territory, just like endless "practice" sessions come with being a musician. Sadly, there seems to be an idea floating around that if you can't turn out a publishable story or novel the first time out, you suck. Don't let that idea sting you.

Enjoy college and keep your fiction writing hand in with short stories or bits of the new novel.

The trunked novel can wait. I have one that waited for me for six years. It's just leapt out of the trunk, trailing fresh ideas and approaches like a baby phoenix trails fire, and we're in love again.

allenparker · Oct 6, 2009

broke parent

As a parent whose chosen to educate his son even if it takes everything I have, let me give you some advice.

The adjustment to college is a big one. New people. New ideas. New ways to do things. It will color your judgment. Put the manuscript under your pillow and sleep on it until Christmas. Let yourself adjust to the new world. Still write, but write something fun, like term papers and love letters to a stranger you see in a bar.

Over the holidays, read back through it with a fresh eye and a more objective decision making process.

Second, I have a piece of advice given to me by my grandfather, speaking to me about race car parts. "Never be afraid to throw something away. You may have spent hours working on making that cam the best on earth, but if it doesn't work, you don't need it. And, don't be afraid to build something that might not work. It just might."

Of course, when he died, there was a chicken barn full of camshafts that didn't work. That was his trunk.

john barnes on toast · Oct 6, 2009

Is it one of the first full length manuscripts you written?

The reason I ask is, it sounds like it's fallen into to the all too familiar first book trap. I think a huge number of us, encouraged by the old adage of 'write what you know', think we're re-inventing the wheel by writing about the world as viewed through the highly specific prism of our own lives. The reality is that, by and large, stories by younger or inexperienced writers, about their limited world experience are indulgent, meandering, unoriginal and insignificant.

You may have broken the cycle, it happens occasionally, but be mentally prepared to face the reality that you probably haven't.
Don't feel to bad about it. I think the first time you bin a major project is a significant step for a writer. It's liberating.

MsGneiss · Oct 6, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
Is it one of the first full length manuscripts you written?

The reason I ask is, it sounds like it's fallen into to the all too familiar first book trap. I think a huge number of us, encouraged by the old adage of 'write what you know', think we're re-inventing the wheel by writing about the world as viewed through the highly specific prism of our own lives. The reality is that, by and large, stories by younger or inexperienced writers, about their limited world experience are indulgent, meandering, unoriginal and insignificant.

You may have broken the cycle, it happens occasionally, but be mentally prepared to face the reality that you probably haven't.
Don't feel to bad about it. I think the first time you bin a major project is a significant step for a writer. It's liberating.

I don't think this is true. Age has nothing to do with how good your novel is. Neither is experience with previous novels. A first novel isn't necessarily bad. A tenth novel isn't necessarily good. Binning a work you put a lot of time into is far more depressing than it is liberating. Still, if you feel like the project is beyond salvage, I say, set it aside and pick up something new. You can always come back to it with fresh eyes and a fresh mind. Good luck to you.

offyatindy · Oct 6, 2009

First, congratulations on putting a lot of words on the page. Not many people can really stick to it.

Second, have a look around. Life and novels are usually about more than relationships or people talking. (They should be.) There are cars and trucks and buildings and mountains and weather and other people. Some of these things are dangerous or funny or fun and make good fodder for a novel.

Third, take a walk and a shower. Take several walks and several showers. I'm not implying you smell bad. I just find walks and showers are good for generating ideas.

Finally, have a look at what you have written. You must have started the project for a reason. (Even if the reason was to make a ton of money with a bestseller.) There is probably some good stuff you can salvage. Maybe a lot of good stuff.

allenparker · Oct 6, 2009

sleepsheep said:
I don't think this is true. Age has nothing to do with how good your novel is.

I disagree. The more you know about life, the more you can write about life. The better you know life, the better you will communicate about life. Novels improve when the author learns to convey their experiences in the written form.

sleepsheep said:
Neither is experience with previous novels. A first novel isn't necessarily bad. A tenth novel isn't necessarily good.

Unless the person is not learning anything from the previous work, the tenth novel will always be better than the first. The average person will get better with each novel.

sleepsheep said:
Binning a work you put a lot of time into is far more depressing than it is liberating.

I disagree. When you can look at your work objectively and say whether it is worth the investment or not is a freeing experience. You no longer have to depend on others for your approval. Knowing when to bin a novel is the key.

sleepsheep said:
Still, if you feel like the project is beyond salvage, I say, set it aside and pick up something new. You can always come back to it with fresh eyes and a fresh mind. Good luck to you.

Here, we agree.

just my thoughts...

Strange Days · Oct 6, 2009

allenparker said:
I disagree. The more you know about life, the more you can write about life. The better you know life, the better you will communicate about life. Novels improve when the author learns to convey their experiences in the written form.

Unless the person is not learning anything from the previous work, the tenth novel will always be better than the first. The average person will get better with each novel.

I disagree with your first point and agree with second. My objections to the first are: who said that life is the only inspiration for art? I cannot stand novels which are too close to life (and I'm NOT a big Fanstasy/Sci-Fi reader either!) - they bore me. Good art (writing included) may have nothing to do with life at all. Actually, Tarantino (not my favourite, but a good example here) will ALLWAYS be by far superior to Soap Operas. Real routine life rarely has a good plot... It's more important to know how to mythologize life, than to know life itself...
As for your second point- so true! your plot ideas might not get better from one Novel to the consequent- but the creativity of your writing inevitably does...

Cassiopeia · Oct 6, 2009

I've taken two months off from the rewrite of my very first novel. I went back to look at the first two chapters yesterday and I can see a blaring problem in chapter two. I didn't fix it, but made a note that it must be fixed. I hadn't realized it was that way. But I was more able to see it because I literally put it away and didn't think about it at all for those two months.

So, put this away. Put it out of your mind and get on with other things. Surely, you have more than one story in you.

Perhaps consider what I have been doing with my WIP. It was third person POV and I'm rewriting it into first person POV. The book is working out to be a much better story this way. Who knows, I may end up going back and rewriting it BACK into third person but I can promise you, it's been a heck of a wake up call to change from third to first.

So if you can't leave it alone? Try a total rewrite this way. I hadn't touched this novel in years. I dreaded the editing process. This has made it much easier.

Good luck and please remember, if you want a break from it, make it a REAL break.

MsGneiss · Oct 6, 2009

Strange Days said:
I disagree with your first point and agree with second. My objections to the first are: who said that life is the only inspiration for art? I cannot stand novels which are too close to life (and I'm NOT a big Fanstasy/Sci-Fi reader either!) - they bore me. Good art (writing included) may have nothing to do with life at all. Actually, Tarantino (not my favourite, but a good example here) will ALLWAYS be by far superior to Soap Operas. Real routine life rarely has a good plot... It's more important to know how to mythologize life, than to know life itself...

I agree, but would also like to add that life experience, or "knowing about life" as the previous response suggested, have all that much to do. It's an unfair assumption that a 60 year old will know more about life than a 20 year old, simply since they've been around longer. There are many exceptions.

Strange Days said:
As for your second point- so true! your plot ideas might not get better from one Novel to the consequent- but the creativity of your writing inevitably does...

Some people learn and grow, others don't. Some writers even deteriorate, or become lazy. Don't discount the possibility of a brilliant first novel from a young author. That's just not fair.

Cassiopeia · Oct 6, 2009

sleepsheep said:
It's an unfair assumption that a 60 year old will know more about life than a 20 year old, simply since they've been around longer. There are many exceptions.

It's not an assumption that a 60 year old will know more about life than a 20 year old. That's just the way it is. To ignore that we gather more life experience and the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with it, would be arrogant.

On the other hand, a 20 year old might experience something that a 60 year old hasn't because of their environment.

Some people learn and grow, others don't. Some writers even deteriorate, or become lazy. Don't discount the possibility of a brilliant first novel from a young author. That's just not fair.

Be careful not to confuse personality with experience. Everyone grows on some level, it just isn't always evident because of their personality.

As to the possibility of a brilliant first novel? It 's possible, albeit, not that common place. Does this mean we shouldn't aim for it? Of course not.

I balk a little at your usage of, "young author" here, because no matter what one's age, "young author" also mean "new author".

Strange Days · Oct 6, 2009

Cassiopeia said:
It's not an assumption that a 60 year old will know more about life than a 20 year old. That's just the way it is.

But then- how knowing life is anyhow relevant to knowing and understanding art and its history? Alcoholic neighbor will allways be less fascinating than Orlando Furioso. Not to mention- worse inspiration for your writing...

Strange Days · Oct 6, 2009

sleepsheep said:
Some people learn and grow, others don't. Some writers even deteriorate, or become lazy. Don't discount the possibility of a brilliant first novel from a young author. That's just not fair.

Not sure here. Yes, undoubtedly there are writers/artists, who write something brilliant and then- detiriorate (like Kesey). But then- the majority works the other way round. Even King's writing was getting better and better from book to book. Even Depeche Mode wrote better songs in 90-ies than in 80-ies.

Darzian · Oct 6, 2009

Stunted said:
What would you do if you were in my situation?

I've been working on it for roughly a year and a half, but there was a had a manuscript that you'd been working on solidly for about a year with a sad, inactive period of a few months in the middle. Even after all this work and love, the novel still isn't fun to read. The first few scenes are awful and conflictless. In fact, there's not much conflict going on at all. It's just one big, tan mess of "Oh...this guy's talking to me. I don't want to talk to him. I'm dissatisfied with my life in general. Oh, wait, I'm in love with that guy, but I'm uncomfortable with my feelings and don't know how to approach him." Then they have a big fight, which is pretty good, actually, but then there's just this totally inert ending and it's over.

There are scenes, here and there, that I like, and there's a stretch in the middle which may actually be good, but I'm just sick of this shit! I've been working so hard and I still have all this awful stuff around that I just don't know how to get rid of.

If you think it matters, I just started college, and my feelings about my WIP have a tendency to reflect my feelings about my life. So it may be that I'm stressed out and still adjusting and it's freaking me out novel-wise.

What should I do?

You're paying for college. I'd give priority to that. Don't let this WIP mess up your education. I'm in college too and I have virtually no time for writing. I'm in college right now as I write actually.

I write while on the bus and in the 10 minute breaks in between lectures. I can't put too much time into writing because I need near perfect grades for the career I'm aiming for.

So, my advice: Settle well into college. Take a break from this novel. Write other stuff in the time you have and once you're well adjusted, you might want to come back to this with a fresh eye.

Good luck.

allenparker · Oct 6, 2009

sleepsheep said:
I agree, but would also like to add that life experience, or "knowing about life" as the previous response suggested, have all that much to do. It's an unfair assumption that a 60 year old will know more about life than a 20 year old, simply since they've been around longer. There are many exceptions.

There are exceptions. There are not many exceptions. Exceptions are so rare that when they happen, you hear about them. Ask yourself this question. Do you want an editor who has one year of experience or 30?

It is a fair assumption that a 60 year old will know mountains more than a 20 year old. The real problem is that the only way you know this for sure is to live to be 60 and look back.

I haven't reached that point, but in my 50 years, I can say that I know a lot more about life, love, family, friends, work, sports, patriotism, and the eternal hope of life everlasting at 50 than I did at 20.

At 20, I thought I knew it all. I also thought my Dad was an idiot. Today, I know I don't know everything, but those things I don't know about, I can as my Dad about. He'll probably know.

sleepsheep said:
Some people learn and grow, others don't. Some writers even deteriorate, or become lazy. Don't discount the possibility of a brilliant first novel from a young author. That's just not fair.

There are people on here who have their first novel published. There are people on here who have their fiftieth novel published. Everyone grows in life. If you don't you die. The ones that don't realize this are the ones who haven't lived that life.

Lastly, please name one brilliant first novel from a teenager.

john barnes on toast · Oct 6, 2009

sleepsheep said:
I don't think this is true. Age has nothing to do with how good your novel is. Neither is experience with previous novels. A first novel isn't necessarily bad. A tenth novel isn't necessarily good. Binning a work you put a lot of time into is far more depressing than it is liberating.

I probably should have been clearer with my point about younger/less experienced writers producing indulgent crap, in that it related specifically to those attempting to write that archetypal first book (the one where they have a rubbish job, and no girlfriend because they're out of step withe the times.)

And even though I'd concede that age and experience are no absolute baromiter of quality (and that some book's brilliance can be defined by their sheer youthful vigour) I would say that I find it hard to believe that any writer truly fulfills their potential in their first completed manuscript (emphasis on completed rather than published).

Regarding the liberating value of junking a once-precious project, I really will have to stand firm on that point. I honestly think it's one of the best things a young writer can do.

Should I Trunk It?

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