How much love is too much?

maestrowork · Sep 30, 2009

Judg's thread prompted me think on my own WIP. I write love stories (as opposed to "romance" by the way) set against cultural issues. But it's not always easy to write love, because inherently love is universal but subjective, and we don't always know where the line is. What is "cute" to someone maybe "get a room" for someone else. Often I find myself cooling things off or backing off from the lovey-doveyness....

How do you know when you have crossed the line to "melodrama" or "icky, sugary" territory? How do you write passion without turning it into a soap opera?

I remember watching the movie The Notebook and thinking, "I can't stand this. What's with all the swans and rain?" But apparently, millions of people loved that book and movie. And I think about all the greatest love stories that range from cheesy (Love Story) to melodramatic (Gone With the Wind) and sublime (Casablanca). So what is too much? And what is too little?

Danthia · Sep 30, 2009

Trust your gut. If you feel you've crossed a line, back up. If you feel it's good, run with it. All you can do is write the book that works for you. You have no control over what other people will think, so it's a waste of energy worrying about it

Write the story you want to write and hope it finds its audience. That's all any of us can do.

firedrake · Sep 30, 2009

I write love stories too, rather than romance.

I try as hard as I can to 'keep it real'. I have an inbuilt mushy-meter which stops me from going too over the top. I'll write something and think, "No, people don't talk like that, even when they're crazy in love." I think it helps if the writer has been through the 'romantic mill' as it were and experienced the ups and downs of love, the first heady rush, the contentment, the agony of "does he? doesn't he?", the first raging argument, the stuck-in-the-rut phase and the crash and burn of a relationship that should've never happened in the first place.

I also agree that one reader's gooey icky lovey dovey stuff is another reader's "nah, where's the lurve?" It's down to personal taste. I'll happily read stuff right across the spectrum, depending on what mood I'm in.

I hope that makes sense.

mscelina · Sep 30, 2009

Every story has its own voice, and that includes love. Depending on when and where your story is set, that voice can hit over the top chewiness (bodice-rippers) or an almost clinical kind of reserve. It's the kind of thing only the writer can determine, really. Personally, I like that slightly out of place kind of romanticism, something beyond or that goes against the popular mindset of my book's setting, era, or genre. I want the romance in my books to be different, and my inner *ewwwwwww* meter is pretty trigger-happy.

barbilarry · Sep 30, 2009

I am having problems with this very thing right now. I have written in the past in the romance genre, which has a few limits as to what is acceptable. I want to go deeper into the feelings and actions of my MCs. I want it to be as close to erotic as I can get and still keep it in the mystery/suspense genre. I definitely don't want it to be cheesy. Nor do I want it to be too melodramatic. What I do want it to be is memorable and HOT! I just don't know where to draw the line. To me the subjective part is what throws me. As the author, what I think of as loving or hot or even believable is up for grabs. I know I didn't answer your question, but just wanted to let you know I am struggling with this right now too.
Jane

raburrell · Sep 30, 2009

How do you know when you have crossed the line to "melodrama" or "icky, sugary" territory? How do you write passion without turning it into a soap opera?

To me, what subtracts the melo- from melodrama is the level of characterization. For that reason, Gone With The Wind isn't melodrama to me, as both Rhett and Scarlett are vivid characters. (Toss in milksops like Ashley and that's when the melodrama comes in). Stated differently, melodrama is when character can't rise to the occasion.

The swans in The Notebook are cheesy, but by then, the reader (viewer) is so enamored of Noah and Allie that they're grateful for a rare moment of joy between them.

I'm running into something similar in my own edits at the moment - after a decade of going through hell to be together, with one last confrontation with the bad guy looming on the horizon, they're on a date at a rooftop restaurant. If I do it wrong, it's a kerklunk moment of fluff in an otherwise dark love story. If I do it right, they're desperately stealing a moment of normalcy back from fate.

So... back to it then.

Phaeal · Sep 30, 2009

What turns you off will turn your ideal readers off.

Here's the twist. If you're too cool for school, you'll get the too cool for school crowd, but not the vast melodrama and/or sugar crowd that keeps romance the leading fictional genre. Which is cool. The smaller crowds need reading material, too.

I find that melodrama works best in an agitated setting. Take Casablanca -- it's hard to go over the top in the middle of a world war. Same effect worked for Gone with the Wind -- the Civil War and its aftermath lend themselves to big story and big emotion. It also works with big characters on a small stage, a la Tennessee Williams.

How to find the perfect tone for a love story? Study the love stories that work for you. For me, it's Jane Austen's novels, where it's all in the rich nuances of the everyday and the aftermath of explosions generally detonated well offstage. No sugar, low melodrama, high emotional impact.

CEtchison · Sep 30, 2009

maestrowork said:
How do you know when you have crossed the line to "melodrama" or "icky, sugary" territory? How do you write passion without turning it into a soap opera?

As an avid soap watcher, I can tell you even the best love stories on soap operas are the less melodramatic ones.

Unless you have your pairing going against their family's wishes, falling into comas after being kidnapped while running from a serial killer, and decide to marry despite the fact your female lead is pregnant with her ex's/rapist's baby, only to have them make it to the altar and learn they are actually brother and sister..... well, I doubt you really need to worry about going into soap opera territory.

ideagirl · Sep 30, 2009

raburrell said:
To me, what subtracts the melo- from melodrama is the level of characterization. For that reason, Gone With The Wind isn't melodrama to me, as both Rhett and Scarlett are vivid characters. (Toss in milksops like Ashley and that's when the melodrama comes in). Stated differently, melodrama is when character can't rise to the occasion.

That's a really great way of looking at it. Thanks.

CaroGirl · Sep 30, 2009

Make sure your characters are real, flawed human beings. The sickly sweetness comes from two perfect people, who are perfect for each other, in love, love, love. Ick.

Dicentra P · Sep 30, 2009

Is the melodrama appropriate for the character, in the circumstances that he/she is in? My grandparents bickered through 40 years of marriage but she fell apart when he died. Even if I was writing the story of their youth and early years together it wouldn't be lovey-dovey but they did love each other. A character who has a teddy bear collection at 40 has a different level style of expression of love.

ishtar'sgate · Sep 30, 2009

maestrowork said:
And I think about all the greatest love stories that range from cheesy (Love Story) to melodramatic (Gone With the Wind) and sublime (Casablanca). So what is too much? And what is too little?

I think you have your answer right here. People don't all enjoy the same thing. Like the old saying - You can please some of the people all of the time, all the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.
If you write it the way you feel it, I'm sure you will find an audience.

maestrowork · Sep 30, 2009

SummerSpring said:
A
Unless you have your pairing going against their family's wishes, falling into comas after being kidnapped while running from a serial killer, and decide to marry despite the fact your female lead is pregnant with her ex's/rapist's baby, only to have them make it to the altar and learn they are actually brother and sister..... well, I doubt you really need to worry about going into soap opera territory.

Damn! * scrambling to rewrite *

Kitty Pryde · Sep 30, 2009

For me, two people in a novel who have the time to lay about cooing and snuggling and calling each other shmoopy, or whatever, isn't a good love story. It's a reenactment of the goofiest parts of high school.

For me what makes a great love story is the lengths to which two people will go for one another--be it sacrifice, something hard, something scary, something that is challenging for them in particular, something they loathe, something that takes a really long time, anything. So instead of a gooey declaration of love, the love is channeled into doing stuff, and that rarely enters melodramatic territory. I think.

Renee Collins · Sep 30, 2009

There's an audience for everything, because people are so varied in what they believe love should feel like. For example, you called Gone with the Wind melodramatic, but I have an older sister who thinks that it is the best love story ever written.

So really, go with what you feel works, and there will be people who love it.

JoNightshade · Sep 30, 2009

I was going to say it's all about your audience, but having read everyone else's replies I'd amend that to - think about what you like to write and read in terms of romance. That's your audience.

I'm more of the anti-romantic type. I adore love stories where the lovers are cold and distant... I will wait for that ONE LINE conveying emotion and I will read it over and over again. I'm probably a very small audience, though.

Lady Ice · Sep 30, 2009

Renee Collins said:
or example, you called Gone with the Wind melodramatic, but I have an older sister who thinks that it is the best love story ever written.

There's nothing wrong with melodrama! It's just a style of theatre/film/book. It is intentionally extreme. Nowadays we shy away from showing any extremes because it might be 'melodramatic'.

What you want to beware is the anti-climax. They get together...and then what? You can end up having to have them go at each other every time the story gets boring.
If the story is purely about x loving y, it will just be trashy romance. I had this problem in one book I was writing. A love scene was getting too mushy/smutty so I explored one of the themes, which was the culture clash between an inexperienced older English woman and a younger experienced American man. It made the love story more poignant and upped the stakes (he loves her; she may only feel lust for him).

Watch 'Brief Encounter'.

Karen Junker · Sep 30, 2009

As long as Heather Locklear isn't cast as the female lead in the movie, you're good to go.

panda · Sep 30, 2009

It's like asking how much chocolate is too much? lol, there can never be enough.

Love is liquid nitrogen, it must be handled with kid gloves, it is a dangerous material you are working with. It has the effect of making a story into a classic or turning a masterpiece into a dimestore novel. Love is twofold.

Your story doesn't have to be loud, sometimes the best loves are the quiet ones, the ones that don't move mountains, but simply stay.

I tend to have this problem too. You don't want to sound too flowery or go overboard with literary imagery either. I guess put yourself in the story, is the speech something you would say to a girl, or does it not ring true. I think the love should be sprinkled throughout, love comes softly, which is a title of a book, but true of how love works.

It builds like a song, it has staccato jarring moments, and it has crescendo moments, that make all the conflict worth it. It's an envious state to be in, if you envy your character's love, I'd say it was pretty strongly written because it resonates.

BTW, As much as I love Ryan Gosling, I did not like the notebook either, but I loved Lars and the Real Girl.

JulieHowe · Sep 30, 2009

For me, the tension is what makes a great love story, throwing obstacles in the path of the couple. That's what made the original An Affair to Remember such a great movie.

Pepper · Sep 30, 2009

maestrowork said:
I write love stories (as opposed to "romance" by the way)...

How do you know when you have crossed the line to "melodrama" or "icky, sugary" territory? How do you write passion without turning it into a soap opera?

CaroGirl said:
The sickly sweetness comes from two perfect people, who are perfect for each other, in love, love, love. Ick.

I tend to think about the movies. Even most action movies have some sort of love story at the middle of it (albeit some are seriously lacking).

The difference between a love story and the icky gag-up-your-breakfast-sickly-sweet-romance is like CaroGirl said. If your two characters are perfect for each other and do nothing but focus on how completely, madly in love they are with each other and how they "couldn't live not one moment apart", then you may have a problem. People can be in love without spouting poetry and fluttering eyelashes until they threaten to fall off.

If a female character enters the scene and your reader can instantly tell that THAT is going to be the love interest, you've probably already made it too mushy. I think that both characters in a love story should be strong lead characters in their own right. If the only reason you've got two characters instead of one is so that they can fall in love, you might need to revise. If you've got two characters in place simply to have the love story, you've probably crossed the line.

This is coming from a girl who isn't particularly mushy in real life though (I'm the person who wrinkles her nose at the teenagers 'making out' in the mall, wishing they'd 'get a room'), so take with a grain of salt.

ellisnation · Sep 30, 2009

I think it's important to decide what kind of lovers your characters are. If melodrama fits your characters, it will fit the story, and the reader will probably be okay with it. My first BF was a sap. He'd leave roses at my window, cards for no reason, send flowers to my work. But it suited him. My husband, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. He actually brought me a gift from the drugstore once...a pair of socks. No kidding. Socks. But it was sweet because he thought of me and my cold tootsies.

Teenage lovers can be all "Omg, I can't live without you" because young love is so desperate and intense. Or forbidden love can be overtly and explicitly sexy because hey-- taboo is hot!

Sparks brought the swans into the notebook because it was being told from the pov of an old man. Old people really like birds. So it worked.

Chasing the Horizon · Sep 30, 2009

For me, my characters dictate how mushy lovey-dovey a story is. I have relationships in different projects which run the gamut from completely over the top to very subtle. IMO, the subtle loves are much easier to write than the dramatic ones. It's easier to draw attention to subtle actions and thoughts than to keep my drama king and his queen from making a serious scene so melodramatic it becomes funny.

As a reader I have no real preference, as long as it's done well. A LOT of books don't get it right, though. So much of writing convincing romance is dependent on emphasis and word choice.

How's that for not helpful?

panda · Sep 30, 2009

My first BF was a sap. He'd leave roses at my window, cards for no reason, send flowers to my work.

Is he single, lol?

So much of writing convincing romance is dependent on emphasis and word choice.

Also I'd scale back. Less is more with romance.

Telstar · Oct 1, 2009

panda said:
Is he single, lol?

Same question

How much love is too much?

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