Things that will date your work?

First things that come to mind are specifics with electronics (processing speeds, types of videogames, types of video game consoles, types of TVs, DVD vs. BlueRay (eventually it'll all go digital download online or via on-demand), companies that are fads (i.e. Macys is not, but BeBe probably is)... things like that, I would imagine. Also, certain kinds of slang... that changes ALL the time.

Little things that I personally notice are teen speak (like bomb diggity, as my girlfriend is so intent on bringing back...as well as 'That's so rufus'), fashion styles, and celebs.

Sookie Stackhouse is a good example of fashion style. She puts on clothes that I can say, "My god that is so turn of the century, I remember wearing pants like those in high school."

Another thing I saw in the House of Night series was the mention of Orlando Bloom. I had to pause and go, "Huh...do girls still lust after him like they used to, or is this just an older ref?"

Everything.

But more seriously, I think what people are talking about are things that will trap your story in a time period, such that your work depreciates in social value in a detrimental way.

I don't see what's wrong with it, myself. Like I said before, eventually, everything's dated.

"Remember when humans existed?"

"Yeah. This stuff they wrote is so dated."

I was reading a novel last night that said something about Princess Diana being on television. I don't think it's a huge deal to use references if it's okay that your book will forever take place in the 90s or whenever.

But sometimes, unless you're actively writing about a specific time period, you want a reader in 2010 to pick up a novel from 1980 and still think it's happening in the present time. Or maybe it doesn't matter. Just decide what you need to work for your book. Obviously there will be things you can't forsee, like cell phones taking over telephone booths. (Oh, Clark Kent, where will you change clothes now?)

sydney said:

katiemac: Okay that's so creepy because #1, I mention Diana. Not in a "now" kind of way though. The characters are referencing her as a kind of modern superhero. #2 My MC is named Kent Clark hahaha

Click to expand...

.... I think this is a sign I need to take a break from AW, LOL.

The Lonely One said:

Everything.

Click to expand...

Heh. That's why contemporary fiction is so difficult. You have to stick to 'classic' clothes; classic other things, too. Name dropping (products or people) isn't generally a good idea, because of that dating thing, but i think it's also a form of worldbuilding cheating, really, so avoiding that kinda thing actually makes for better writing technique, imho.

There are pop culture things, too, that should perhaps be avoided, unless you want to show that someone's nerdy or older. Songs, toys, movies, actors (Orlando Bloom!), books, 'best vacation spots.' Anything touted in Entertainment weekly.

... some dated material is okay by me and gives a book a nostalgic feel. But if there's too much dated material in a work then it becomes a labor to read. I had to stop reading a short story from the 1940's just recently, for instance, because it centered on a baseball broadcast from the era and I wasn't familiar with any of the names except one.

This issue is the height of pettiness.

I don't worry about it and wish nobody else would either.

They say a book is supposed to take a person to some other time or place, but agents somehow think that you can't ever have someone talk about what's actually going on at that time and place.

It makes no sense.

...but agents somehow think that you can't ever have someone talk about what's actually going on at that time and place.

Click to expand...

There's a difference between having two characters talk about listening to Hoagy Carmichael and the narrator describing the main character as looking like Hoagy Carmichael.

sydney said:

I guess if I really were very worried, I could change everything that might get dated... except for one.
They go to see a movie that's in theaters right now (500 Days of Summer) and stuff happens at the theater. Do I have to take the scene out?

Click to expand...

I, personally, would not use this movie. Just say they go see an indie film. If stuff in the movie is important to what happens in your book, just describe it in vague terms and allude to the film, but don't say what it is. Something about this just seems way too specific when it really doesn't need to be.

I don't think there's inherently anything *wrong* with dating yourself, as long as that's a part of the story.

(i.e, if something is set in 2010, it's set in 2010, no point performing extreme acrobatics to make it maddeningly inspecific).

I think like a lot of other writing issues, the decisions come down to necessity for the story and risk.

Anything - movies, music, technology, slang, etc... can date the work. And often it isn't a big deal.

A kid reading a book today that was written 20 years ago, or even 10-12 years ago, might wonder why the teen stranded with a flat tire doesn't just use her cell phone to call for help. But then the teen will figure it out. No big deal.

Same with mentions of music, movies, etc. Usually, not a big deal.

The issue really does effect longevity of the work when there is an essential character or plot element that is more than dated - maybe the thing you mention has changed over time, and it is so essential to the plot/character that it does interfere with the reader's ability to connect.

For example, say a book written at a time when Britney Spears was the height of cool. or Jessica Simpson. Or Michael Jackson. Menudo.

Now, reading a book now where Menudo was the MC's obsession and crush wouldn't maybe effect a contemporary teen from connecting - mainly because they don't know who Menudo is.

But what if the 16 yo girl MC has a major crush on Michael Jackson - would modern girl or boy readers relate to that?

What if the MC thinks Britnesy Spears or Jessica Simpson are the height of cool - a modern teen picking up that book might be immediately turned off, if they think Britney or Jessica are a joke.

The danger gets even more present if the thing you focus on or include is just becoming uncool. What if your characters love the Jonas Brothers. And the Jonas Brothers are cool now. But one month after the book comes out there is some big scandal and the Jonas Brothers are no longer cool at all - will a teen who picks the book up think you don't know what's what, or think your characters are lame or unreal, because of this immediately dated aspect.

Now, you could drive yourself crazy with this. I just think that is silly. Write a good enough book and it shouldn't matter. But it can, so it is necessary to ask why you are including something and if it is essential.

So...ask yourself whether the movie/music/technology are needed for the story. If they are, then you go with them and hope for longevity despite any datedness.

But if you are just sprinkling them for flavor, then don't - be stingy on adding anything that isn't needed for meaning/character/plot that could cause a reader to be turned off from the book.

~suki

Twitter.

Now, reading a book now where Menudo was the MC's obsession and crush wouldn't maybe effect a contemporary teen from connecting - mainly because they don't know who Menudo is. - BY SUKI

have a crush on soup for hang overs?
or am I dating myself?

STKlingaman said:

Now, reading a book now where Menudo was the MC's obsession and crush wouldn't maybe effect a contemporary teen from connecting - mainly because they don't know who Menudo is. - BY SUKI

have a crush on soup for hang overs?
or am I dating myself?

Click to expand...

ROTF - No, not the soup, the Boy Band. Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menudo_(band)

But thank you for (sort of) making the point that really dated stuff is less an issue (once confusion corrected) than recently dated...

~suki

katiemac said:

sydney said:

I guess if I really were very worried, I could change everything that might get dated... except for one.
They go to see a movie that's in theaters right now (500 Days of Summer) and stuff happens at the theater. Do I have to take the scene out?

Click to expand...

I, personally, would not use this movie. Just say they go see an indie film. If stuff in the movie is important to what happens in your book, just describe it in vague terms and allude to the film, but don't say what it is. Something about this just seems way too specific when it really doesn't need to be.

Click to expand...

Also keep in mind that by the time someone's reading your book, that movie will be long gone from theaters. If you don't mind the book explicitly taking place in late 2009, that's fine, but it had better be a conscious decision rather than an accident.

I just know that by the time my MS is up to scratch and ready to be published, suddenly we'll have teleporters and alchemy or something, which will really screw me over.

Of course, I could include teleporters and alchemy in the book, but then they wouldn't be invented by the time my book is in stores.

The future is a vicious cycle...

Any contemporary references are going to become dated -- it's just a matter of time. But why would you care? If you're fortunate enough that your books are still being read 20 years from now, then more power to you. Otherwise, who cares anyway?

Don't sweat it. I think it's better to have a book about 2010 and become "dated" in 2025 than having a book about 2035 and read completely "hokey" in the REAL 2035. I still chuckle at the Pan Am spaceship and references in 2001: Space Odyssey.