What education for a writer of historical fiction? History? Writing?

Barb D said:

The farther I get into this, the more I realize how woefully uneducated I am. I need more education in creative writing and literature. I absolutely need more education history and the methods of historical research. I need to learn French, and by the time I finish my current series, I'll probably need a bunch of other languages too.

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All right, I'm totally confused--why do you think you need formal education in any of these areas?

I write historical fiction, but my knowledge of it has been gleaned over decades of reading about my chosen eras and places out of love and interest. My knowledge is more than substantial to create a realistic world (my work has been praised by professors in the field in reviews) for the story and anything the story needs, I can research on my own, either in my personal collection of books, at the local university libraries or by connecting with people who already know. The focus of a historical novel is still on the story, after all.

If you want to do it for your own interests, more power to you. Do so and enjoy, however there's no requirement at all to have multiple degrees in any of these subjects or to learn languages to write historical fiction.

My main degree is in City Planning.

I did a few courses in Russian/Soviet History years and years and years ago.

But I'm with Deleyan on this one. I write historical fiction because I love it. Sound research is the main thing and a passion for what you're writing about.

Go pick up a good book on doing historical research for term papers and the like. That will help give you a good grounding in basic research techniques including locating and evaluating various sources. You don't need a degree, but you can use some of the tools out there to structure your own study.

If you're at a loss for a "how to research" book, take a look at the course catalog of a nearby university. Chances are there's an upper-level history course with a name something like "historiography" or "methods of history." Drop by the bookstore or look up an online course syllabus and see what books they're using. If any of the books look like they'll help you learn about researching historical topics, pick one up. No pain, and no class to take.

You don't need to be "educated" for writing historical fiction, but you must be willing to learn. Over years, you'll aquire enough knowledge to become an expert in your own rights.

Just be patient. Happy digging into the past!

I'm in total agreement with what everyone else has said.

I majored in history, and I can tell you from personal experience it matters jack-all when it comes to writing historical fiction. I've learned more reading on my own than I ever did in academia. Heck, the entire basis of my first book - the Second Punic War - got maybe one or two class periods of coverage and showed up as an essay question on a mid-term. Nowhere near the analysis of the history or the sources that I had to embark upon when it came to researching the story.

Now...I will give all the credit in the world to a handful of teachers and professors who taught me how to think and how to approach history...but you can't schedule a great professor. One of mine wasn't even supposed to be the professor...but Vanderbilt lost it's Medieval studies professor so they had to bring someone else in from MTSU.

My recommendation would be to read, read, read. If you're reading a primary text, be sure to read the modern introduction and research the author to get a sense of reliability. If you're reading something by a modern author, again read the intro, read the footnotes, anything you can to get a sense of the author's thinking, analysis and rationale. And by all means use bibliographies to identify and track down more works.

Barb D said:

The farther I get into this, the more I realize how woefully uneducated I am. I need more education in creative writing and literature. I absolutely need more education history and the methods of historical research. I need to learn French, and by the time I finish my current series, I'll probably need a bunch of other languages too.

I have two kids in college and another in elementary school. Going back to school full time is not going to happen, especially for 3 or 4 more degrees!

If I were to take a few classes, what would be the best subject on which to focus my energy?

FWIW, I'm currently writing about France in the 16th century.

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Are the majority of your sources only availabe in French?

Unless you believe that most of your sources will only be in French, you can either 1)work with English sources or 2)attempt to translate the few that are ONLY in French.

I'm working with 18th century France. I came across a useful book about the theatre but it was only in French. I picked out the pertinent parts and went to translating. WordResource.com can be a huge help here. What I did with my French source was type it into Word (easy to do accents, etc), pasted it into the Google translator to get a general idea, then looked up any tricky words on wordreference (because it often comes out of the translator as a garbled mess). This was a little time-consuming, but I couldn't wait to learn French on my own or by taking a class. Besides, you'll learn tons as you go along. I learned a lot of French theatre terms, for instance.

I know my five years of Spanish were an immense help in translating the French. But if you are busy, this is probably the quickest way to deal with the odd Frrench source.

ETA: re: education. You're your best teacher. I'm sure no class you'll ever take will go into the level of detail a novelist needs to write about a time and place. Learning is (at least for me) half the fun of what I do.

Regarding "how to research"...I actually used to head up secondary research and strategic insights for a major ad agency. The skills required were for all intents and purposes the exact same required for researching historical fiction.

A few pointers I used to pass along to new hires:

Learn how to search. Over time you'll develop a sense of where to go to find a certain fact or answer a certain question. Until you do, Google is your friend. Think about what you're looking for and start playing with keyword combinations. Refine your search as you go. You'd be amazed what can turn up.

Follow the breadcrumbs. If one source mentions another, run it down. In the advertising world this usually meant finding another study, or another organization, that had the data you were looking for. In history, this means paying close attention to footnotes and bibliographies. One or two good resources can literally lead you to hundreds more, or to that specific one addressing that specific issue you're trying to learn about.

Evaluate your sources. Don't take anything at face value. Read reviews, discussions, articles, blogs. Get a sense of how accurate or well-regarded a source is. Learn its weakness and biases. The Nat'l Cable Television & Internet Association - the research and policy arm of the U.S. cable providers - is going to put its own spin on its findings. Likewise history texts often have their own interests or axes to grind (even the modern ones). Once you learn what those are, it's that much easier to work within or around them.

Corroborate. If you can, track down two or more sources that say basically the same thing (but be sure one's not just taking from the other). In history you WILL come across areas where scholars disagree. Fortunately, since you're writing historical fiction, you can pick and choose what you believe is the likeliest interpretation, or offer your own (so long as it's plausible).

Remember, research is an art, not a science. Research is a skill in the same way writing or painting are skills. You can learn the technique. You can learn brush strokes and grammar. But that will only get you so far. It can lead you to a source, but not to insight.

We used to have a quote from the movie Zero Effect posted in our area that I think encapsulated this quite well:

Research is an art, not a science, because anyone who knows what they're doing can find the crumbs, the wheres, whats, and whos. The art is in the whys: the ability to read between the crumbs, not to mix metaphors. For every event, there is a cause and effect. For every crime, a motive. And for every motive, a passion. The art of research is the ability to look at the details, and see the passion.

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I'm another history major and just one course shy of a second major in Spanish. But, in my time between college and now I've dabbled more in the sciences and engineering than in historical research, that is, until I got started in genealogical research about fifteen years ago.

Research techniques and methods are pretty much the same regardless of where you learn them (and I learned a lot of mine in the sciences). The main thing you need to know is you're always looking for the W's - the who, what, why, when, where, and how. And, as long as you feel you need to know more (to write an understandable and authentic story), you haven't come to the end of your research.

French history - read non-fiction and fiction books (in English) written about your period. You're working on a small piece of French history - a course would probably frustrate you because you want to learn about your time period and location and the prof would want to teach about something else.

As far as languages go - if you've had any Romance language in school, you have a leg up on reading any of the other Romance languages. But, in my opinion, Latin is the best of all for the basis. In my genealogical wanderings I needed to read items in French and was able to come up with a fairly decent understanding with my Spanish/Latin background and a French-English dictionary. I also had to read German and luckily I'd also had two semesters of German in college - but that was a long time back. I think you'll find you can do fairly well with a translating program and a dictionary. If you really feel iffy about what you're seeing from that method, try asking a French teacher (high school or college) to take a look at it. I've found there are many people around who are willing to help if asked.

And, as far as how to write - I think if you post in SYW here and are open to comments, suggestions, and criticisms, you'll probably learn more faster than you would in a course.

In other words - I think you can go it alone without spending additional time and money on college classes. Puma

Hmm, I am going to buck the trend in this thread and advise you to take a few history classes if you can find some that are recommended. If they do what they should for you, they will give you a sense of self-assurance when doing real historical research, and confidence about how to use the evidence you have and how to break away and come up with your own conclusions and fictional takes on history. The point it not to learn historical information --- it is to learn a set of methodologies and ways to use historical tools. Of course, as a history professor, I'm biased in favour of what my profession can offer!

I have to laugh when I see authors (I thinking of published ones here, not the people writing in this thread) who say they've done tons of historical research for their novels when what they mean is they have read the ten popular trade non-fiction books in their subject, eight of which copy everything from the other two.

lkp said:

Hmm, I am going to buck the trend in this thread and advise you to take a few history classes if you can find some that are recommended. If they do what they should for you, they will give you a sense of self-assurance when doing real historical research, and confidence about how to use the evidence you have and how to break away and come up with your own conclusions and fictional takes on history. The point it not to learn historical information --- it is to learn a set of methodologies and ways to use historical tools. Of course, as a history professor, I'm biased in favour of what my profession can offer!

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I see where you're coming from, but I still really think it has a lot to do with the professor. I've had some great classes that helped establish what you describe above, but far more that were, in my opinion, worse than useless. One class I took on Ancient Egypt was so bad (100% lecture-based, and boring lectures at that, plus poor organization, only limited sources permitted - including the professor's book, go figure) that it managed to destroy any interest I had in the period and culture.

As an aside, I've been hearing some really great things about iTunes U, which lets you audit college courses online through iTunes. Haven't looked at it too closely, but it could be a really great place to start.

I wouldn't bother with formal classes, at this point.

I would follow the advice in this thread. I would take advantage of the many top flight schools with class Web sites who post the syllabus and reading list and supplementary bibliographies online.

Use them. Read widely. And sure, go ahead and start learning French--though sixteenth century French is different from Modern French, it's not at all impossible.

My "secret" for learning to read modern langauges?

Dubbed movies and TV shows--I usually go with Star Trek. I turn on captions, and listen to the other language dialog. I know the stories, so it's easy to follow.

Also genre fiction that's easy or that I know the English version really really well--Harlequins were super for learning modern French and German idioms. Also Dororthy Sayers in French, and Star Trek novels that I had the English versions of.

While taking history classes would be helpful, you don't need them. I have a friend who never had them but you'd never know it because he did all his research through his own efforts.

Depending on what time period you're interested in, try looking up re-enactment groups in addition to the other great advise others have already mentioned. If you're interested in the Middle Ages, the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) is a great place to start. A lot of people in this group have done a lot of research and love teaching others. (It's part of the SCA mandate, really.)

Also, if you can go to historical sites, do so. Look up their websites as well. The internet is your friend in this matter. They usually have an email address as well. If they don't have the answer, you can ask them to point you in the right direction.

If...

you can find a History class covering your area of interest, taught by a prof who is full of enthusiasm and loves hir subject, then take it. Look not only at university but at adult eduction classes - community college you call them? That enthusiastic professor will inspire you and share hir knowledge, you won't be able to stop hir talking about her beloved France.

Lois McMaster Bujold took a Spanish History class with such a professor and her Challion series was the result!

What you lack is confidence, and you know this, so make it a powerful research tool. The cocky historical writer who knows all about Scotland after a two week holiday there will make horrible errors. You know that you don't know. So you will double and triple check and mark your manuscript as you write with ???? and **** to remind yourself about extra research.

Read, look at paintings of your period, visit museums, look at architecture, gardening and natural history books until you can see and smell the world you want to create and you can see your MC in that world. Then you can write and, because you are not a cocky, over confident knowitall, you will create something believable.

Barb D said:

Thanks, everyone!

Has anyone had any success picking the brains of college professors without taking classes? Are they usually willing to share their knowledge with someone who is not paying for a class, or are they too busy dealing with everything already on their plates?

I've heard that archivists are just waiting for someone who wants the knowledge they've been studying and storing all these years.

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I was very lucky. When I lived in Cambridge (UK) and was hammering out the first draft of the Russian WIP (currently being revived), I was put in touch with a Soviet History Professor at King's College (I think) and he gave me an hour of his time. When I revived the book, I contacted my former Soviet History professor at Pitt to find out the name of his book (brilliant book about life in Moscow during the 1920s) and not only did he e-mail me back, but he's said that, if I have any questions that I can't find the answers to, he'd be happy to help.

A couple agents ask writers to explain in queries their qualifications for writing the novel. I understand the need to know for nonfiction-but for fiction it's a murky question. Would I have to be a teacher to write about one? Or do I just need to make the classroom scenes come alive? Like you, I'd like more education in certain topics, but I feel good research fills in most gaps.

Have you considered auditing a class or two in areas you're interested in? It takes the test stress out and lowers costs.

Re: profs and interest in helping out - the head of one of the departments at Ohio State University read one of my novels as a technical beta and was tickled pink to be asked. Profs are people too (I know, my Dad was one). Puma

BAY said:

Have you considered auditing a class or two in areas you're interested in? It takes the test stress out and lowers costs.

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The disadvantage to doing this, and the disadvantage to listening to recorded lectures no matter how fabulous the lecturer, is that for the purposes of writing HF, you are going to learn the most by doing the work of being a historian yourself --- doing the readings and coming up with questions and observations about them; writing research papers using primary and secondary sources and getting graded on them.

There is zero reason you need a PhD to write HF (though, man, it makes it easier!), or a BA, or even a single formal history course. But I think that the point at which you start to get a nagging sense that something is missing in your preparation, is the point at which you might really profit from the right class taught by the right person.

Coming in late. Majored in and taught history, but in the end you have to go for the primary and secondary sources and learn where they are. It's being educated in research skills that matter, not the courses one takes. Bibiliographies in the major tomes help locate some of them as well as footnotes. Tenacious research can lead to discovering unpublished material that may alter the direction of your story and add insights about your MC as happened in my case.

Writing HF and avoiding info dumping is for another thread.

I don't think a formal education is necessary, but it can give you a broad grounding in your subject, as well as a reference point and the confidence to research. Have you thought about distance learning? I did a Humanities (Classical Studies) Diploma with the Open University. You can take a single course if you prefer or you can keep taking courses, as and when, till the Dip becomes a degree. I found the teaching and materials excellent, much better than traditional university. I didn't attend any of the offered classes, and that forced me to work so much harder than I did in the classroom environment.

Barb D said:

Thanks, everyone!

Has anyone had any success picking the brains of college professors without taking classes? Are they usually willing to share their knowledge with someone who is not paying for a class, or are they too busy dealing with everything already on their plates?

I've heard that archivists are just waiting for someone who wants the knowledge they've been studying and storing all these years.

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Lord yes. I get questions all the time, and the ones who are looking for resource material are worth the time. What you need to do is quietly lurk on academic list serves and communities for your subject/area. And I do mean quietly lurk for a few weeks.

You'll get a feel for the community--and who's helpful and who isn't, and who knows their stuff and who doesn't. Asking for resource help--books, articles, archives to visit--is typically well received.

Also coming in late, Barb - my apologies.

I'd second the opinion of most here that no formal classes are necessary. What is, however, almost essential, is the guidance of a genuine historian. You're right to suggest most won't have the time to do your research for you (nor would you want it) but if you go to them with specific questions, eg 'which out of the following books are the best on this one particular small issue?' or 'I've heard/read this anecdote, is that something worth following up?' they will usually be absolutely delighted to help - and thrilled at your interest. The crucial thing is to do a lot of research on your own first, so you can prove to them you're serious about what you're doing.

I'm doing mid 17th century France. What I did was pick the books I found most helpful in the early stages, check out the author biogs, find their e-mail addresses on their respective university websites - then just write and ask to meet them. Everyone so far has responded brilliantly, and I don't know what I'd have done without their help.

Something else you should ask them to do for you is get you on the H-France list. This is the e-mail forum for members of the Society for French Historical Studies, and I have found it invaluable. There are other fiction writers who occasionally ask a question there, and though it's frowned on for anyone to ask too many questions, the reviews will keep you up to date with research in your field and there are any number of helpful links constantly being posted for other members to see. It will also help you identify other victims you might want to write to off-list to help with specific questions. To join H-France you will need sponsorship by an academic member - which is where again you need that all-important first historian mentor. One also leads to another - when you write to someone else, it's a great help if you can say 'I was recommended to you by Professor X at Y'.

In terms of French - yes, there's no doubt it's a great help, as many of the good sources are only in French. It can be done, though - I've just plodded though the whole of the Mercure Francois 'History of Our Times' for 1641 (mercifully digitized online, God bless Leicester University) armed with only a pocket dictionary, and it's surprising how quickly you get the hang of it.

Have you found EuroDocs yet, by the way? There are a few good sources there, and some are translated.

Yours is a great period. If you ever want to indulge in mutual brain-picking, do give me a shout.

Best of luck,

Louise

Barb D said:

Where do I find these? (I'm currently doing 1526-1527 France, and will probably be moving on to 16th century Scotland in my next book.)

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I'd first take a look at h-net; they have lots of lists, and are generally fabulous:

http://www.h-net.org/

The lists are here:

http://www.h-net.org/lists/

A friend and fellow medievalists (We are everywhere! Our name is Legion )keeps a list of medieval listserves:

http://pages.towson.edu/duncan/acalists.html

This is the closest "list of list" I know of:

http://tile.net/lists/

Now, these are very much communities. Some are really active--100 emails a day--some not so much--say five or six a month. All have their own community, so for heaven's sake, lurk first and don't subscribe to a bunch at once.

Here's my list of Celtic lists:

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/urls/lists.html

And here's some super advice about academic listservs or discussion groups in general. Please read it:

http://littleprofessor.typepad.com/the_little_professor/2007/10/how-to-ask-ques.html

And I've got to put in a plug for one of my favorite authors; Dorothy Dunnett. She wrote about the middle ages, and renaissance, and yes, sixteenth century France and Scotland.

I adore her books; I partially blame her for for my decision to engage in graduate studies:

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/bibs/dunnett.html