Switching POV Within a Scene - Yea or Nay?

JamieMT · Jul 17, 2009

I never really even thought about this until last night, but is it acceptable to switch viewpoints within a scene? I'm not talking about every other paragraph, but last night I was writing a scene that starts in my heroine's perspective, but near the end I felt like it would be stronger to switch to the hero's perspective, rather than write from the heroine's then-very-limited view for the remainder of that particular scene.

And then today, while working on a flash fiction story, I found myself wanting to change the POV about half-way through a scene. The entire story takes place in three scenes, but the switch would be half through the second (switching back just at the very last paragraph).

As I said, I've never done this...I've always waited until a scene break at least to switch POV's, so even though it "feels right" here, it's not something I want to have to "unlearn" later if it's poor style.

Comments/opinions?

DeleyanLee · Jul 17, 2009

Sure it is. There are people to whom it's not their taste, but it's perfectly acceptable. As long as you don't confuse the reader, go for it.

JamieMT · Jul 17, 2009

Excellent - thank you!

Wark · Jul 17, 2009

I've been accused of confusing readers by switching POV. I wanted the reader to know what each person thought. I scrapped it and did POV on the character that was present for the whole chapter.

But, if it doesn't confuse, have at it.

YAwriter72 · Jul 17, 2009

Just be prepared to get called on it and make sure its smooth as possible.

maestrowork · Jul 17, 2009

Why not just tell the scene from the hero's perspective through and through?

To me, switching POVs mid-scene can work if there's a strong reason, but it would still jar the readers -- many writers can't do it smoothly. You may think it may make the scene stronger, but your readers may think otherwise.

Also, it always come across as a lack of discipline to me. Whose perspective do you want, really? Or is the writer wishy washy?

dgrintalis · Jul 17, 2009

Here's my take:

I'm rereading IT and in one scene, King makes a POV switch. Even though the way he does it (2 people are having an altercation and the first half of the scene is from one character's POV and then midway through he switches to the other character's and stays that way through the end of the scene) works well, it still gives me a slight pause every time I read it. I know why he did it, but when he makes the switch, it still takes me a second to catch up. I've read this book a dozen times so you would think I'd be expecting it by now.

If your book already has multiple POVs and you want to switch to another character's POV, put in a scene break and make it clear to the reader you've switched POV. If this is the only time in your book that character gets to tell the story from his POV, I say don't do it.

RJK · Jul 17, 2009

There are some critters who insist on being confused when they encounter head hopping. I read text that a second grade student could follow, understand and not stumble over, but the critter insists on being confused by a simple POV shift.

JanDarby · Jul 17, 2009

It's not so much "yea or nay" but "why."

Make sure there's a reason that will benefit the reader's experience more than the shift will harm the reader's experience. Ask yourself: What will I accomplish that's worth breaking the reader's bond with the initial pov character? If you don't have a good answer, don't switch. If you do, then switch, keeping in mind that you'll have to work extra hard to get the reader to bond with the new pov character.

JD

JamieMT · Jul 17, 2009

Insightful insights - again, thank you all.

I ended up deciding against the POV switch mid-scene for the flash. And it worked out more dramatically having only the very last scene (just a few sentences) be from the antagonist's point of view. I couldn't have wrapped it up decently without stepping into that view at some point, but it makes a good punch to wait to switch POVs until the last scene. The rest of the piece is from the protagonist view, and I'm happy with how it's coming out. So "nay" on the flash piece.

As for the novel draft, I'm keeping the mid-scene switch. It's a very intimate, emotional scene, and I shift between these two perspectives for the whole story (which is pretty common in the romance genre), so it's not unexpected, or the only time my hero will be "in perspective". It really does enrich the scene I think, though I did consider everything you all helpfully brought up.

The thing that really made up my mind though was the fact that when I sat down to lunch today, continuing on with a romance novel I'm reading, the author (Cara Summers, I think) did the *exact same thing* that I'm wanting to do, and it wasn't jarring or unwieldy at all. It flowed smoothly, and really ramped up the emotional aspects of an intimate scene. I love her books and her writing style, and she's published where I eventually want to be, so I'm less nervous about doing it myself now having seen it work well.

Maestrowork: The reason I like switching perspectives in my writing is to keep the flow as continuous as possible while showing more/telling less. One person can only see and experience so much - it's very limiting to me. When I switch perspectives between my main characters (just two, normally), I can do a lot more "showing" through two perspectives than one, and I feel like I'm telling a richer story. It's just the way I prefer to write, though I have stayed in one perspective for flash/short stories when it "seems right".

Thanks again - this was very helpful!

Dale Emery · Jul 17, 2009

Help the reader track POV

Wark said:
I've been accused of confusing readers by switching POV. I wanted the reader to know what each person thought.

Switching POV per se isn't the problem. The problem is switching POV in a way that readers can't easily follow.

One thing I've seen help is to demonstrate right away that you will be switching POVs within scenes. After a few opening paragraphs in a single POV, the reader comes to expect a single-POV scene. If you switch POVs early, the reader learns sooner to expect POV switches.

Other things that help:

Switch only when you have a good reason. As a reader, I prefer when the switch is toward a POV rather than away from one. That is, I prefer that the reason for switching is that the new POV is more interesting in some way. I don't like when an author switches away from an interesting POV in order to hide that character's thoughts from me.

Give clues that you are switching. I haven't read enough multi-POV scenes to know how to do this both well and subtly. I suspect you can lean on some of the same techniques you use to help reader's track who is speaking. Switching paragraphs, naming the character before the dialogue/thoughts rather than after (when there are more than two characters speaking/POVing), interspersing thoughts/dialogue with actions.

You already likely do both of these things when you switch POVs from one scene to another. I wonder to what extent the techniques for switching from scene to scene apply when switching within a scene. Clearly you can't use a scene break within a scene, but what other ways do you signal a POV switch?

Can someone point to an excellent multi-POV scene online? Perhaps we could analyze that to learn how the author helps the reader track POVs.

Dale

Dale Emery · Jul 17, 2009

JamieMT said:
One person can only see and experience so much - it's very limiting to me.

It turns out that switching POVs is limiting, too. When you switch POVs, you lose an opportunity to understand any given POV deeply. Staying with a single character allows you to show the character through the character's perspective and intentions and internal reactions.

Using multiple POVs affords breadth of perspective and sacrifices depth. Using a single POV affords depth of perspective and sacrifices breadth.

Each POV style has limitations and capabilities. The trick is to know the effects of each choice, and to know which effects best serve your story.

Dale

JamieMT · Jul 17, 2009

Each POV style has limitations and capabilities. The trick is to know the effects of each choice, and to know which effects best serve your story.

I agree - and I was just thinking of how POV switching is perhaps more useful in some genres in others. For instance, when I'm reading a thriller or suspense, I expect that it will be all one POV or skewed towards just one, at least. I expect to stay with the main character throughout, because it's his/her story.

When I'm reading a romance, I expect to get POV's from both the hero and heroine, so I can "experience" the motivations and internal struggles of each. In a sense, a romance is "their" story, and it doesn't work nearly as well when only one POV is used.

All just my opinions of course - reading & writing are always so subjective...

I'd be interested in an example of multi-POV's within a scene. Not sure I've seen many online or off though (or I didn't notice them as such, anyway), hence my original question.

scarletpeaches · Jul 17, 2009

I hate, hate, hate headjumping with a passion and I'd happily burn books in which an author commits such a sin.

It's all very well saying one wants to experience more than one character's emotions but any author worth their salt would be able to express these using body language and the impressions given to the viewpoint character.

Hell, if you (in general, not you specifically) need to switch POV, at least have a scene or chapter break.

It's got nothing to do with 'not understanding' although some authors headhop at a rate of knots, leaving me dizzy. It's a matter of keeping the writing tight.

Dale Emery · Jul 17, 2009

JamieMT said:
For instance, when I'm reading a thriller or suspense, I expect that it will be all one POV or skewed towards just one, at least. I expect to stay with the main character throughout, because it's his/her story.

Many thrillers switch POVs--in particular, the switch to the bad guy's POV to show the bad guy's plans. This gives the reader information that the MC doesn't know. That sort of dramatic irony, done well, can ratchet up the thrills. Oh noes! Biff is walking into a trap!

In particular, I've noticed that numerous thrillers start with a prologue in the bad guys' POV. We might learn about the bad guys' intentions, their capabilities, their progress, or their character. Though for some of those novels, that's the last we see of the bad guys' POV.

Dale

Dale Emery · Jul 17, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
I hate, hate, hate headjumping with a passion

I know that people mean different things by headjumping (or headhopping), so I want to check what you mean...

Have you ever seen a mid-scene POV switch that you don't think of as headjumping? Or do you see any such switch as headjumping?

Dale

scarletpeaches · Jul 17, 2009

Switching heads within a scene is always headhopping/headjumping to me.

I know not every reader is as violently anti as I, but it just reads as baggy writing when I see it. There's never any paragraph (at least that I've read) which couldn't be tightened by sticking to one POV and switching in the next scene or chapter if need be.

In my view, of course.

JamieMT · Jul 17, 2009

ScarletPeaches - so is all POV switching "headhopping", or just when it's overdone? Just curious - I've heard the term, but thought it referred to switching constantly, rather than by chapter or every few chapters (I normally do a 2:1 or 3:1 MC to 2nd MC ratio). Just curious...doesn't matter, I guess, since this mid-scene switch I'm doing is outside that realm (and probably an abnormal occurrence). --> Just read Dale's Q. and your answer...didn't hit enter fast enough. Thanks for the clarification!

I freely admit to being weak on description - I'm a sparse writer. Maybe that's why I like switching POV's. Dialogue is more my "thing". Gotta work on my descriptive skills.

Yeah Dale, that's why I added the "skewed toward" one. Many of them seem to have more chapters in the MC's POV, with just a few sprinkled in from the antagonist's view.

I just read a prologue like that last night in Deaver's "The Broken Window". Oddly though, it was from the POV of the victim, introducing an antagonist (though whether or not it's the main villain is yet to be determined).

Fascinating stuff, this...

bettielee · Jul 17, 2009

Melanie Rawn does this twenty times a chapter and it drives me nuts.

King does it well.

I don't mind it, if there is a reason. Sometimes, esp. in epic fantasy, you got a lot of plots going on and who knows what when comes into play...

I only have one situation where I want to switch pov in a scene... I am trying to work it out so I DON'T because I keep it to one head per scene everywhere else.

Mr Flibble · Jul 17, 2009

I had much the same issue in my first book. I needed to show just why two people thought so very differently about a third. I originally had this scene as headhopping, but decided it would be stronger to follow each POV as it was important to do so. As they were both POV characters ( main had about 70% of the book, secondary about 25%) I split the scene into three. So as an example

Main POV's feelings about third party. Third party is her friend and is being an arse to secondary POV. She can't understand why

*** <--- break ( or just a line break as it's the same scene)

Secondary POV and his reaction to arsery. POV decides he'd quite like to strangle third party

***

Back to main - and the hushed convo she has with third party that reveals why he's being an arse.

End of scene

If you make it clear that you are switching ( with the line break) I can't see a problem, especially if you are switching POVs during chap breaks or what not. If you are segueing from one to another witout a clear break, unless done very well, it can confuse readers *remembers book she read where POV shifted twice in one sentence and left her with a headache as she re-read and tried to work out WTF was going on*

If they are both POV characters that you swap between in the rest of the book, showing one scene from first one and then another's POV can work very well to show different facets of character.

ETA: I'm rambling today. Oopsie.

JoNightshade · Jul 17, 2009

I'm with SP on this one. Fine if you want to write your novel from a couple of different POV's and switch regularly, using scene breaks. Also fine if you want to write old-style omniscient and have the "know-all narrator" be a kind of character.

Switching from one person to another within a scene? Not okay. I think it's tolerated, generally, but to me it just signals lazy writing and a lack of creative thinking. Most of the time it comes off as a crutch to help the writer convey something he/she couldn't figure out how to do any other way. I would rather restructure my plot a bit or just leave the information out than resort to this.

ETA: Also, what Idiots said.

Juliette Wade · Jul 17, 2009

Interesting discussion. I think what I'd add is that a switch of POV is a deliberate act by the author, and as such, is noticeable by the reader - so it shouldn't be done lightly. Sometimes there may be a critical moment in the story that would be a good place to switch points of view - I've actually done that, but put a chapter break there at the same time even though the main event isn't finished. There are other types of text where point of view comes across less obviously, and one way to slide across points of view more smoothly is to use such text as a bridge. That's what Frank Herbert does in Dune. Many have accused him of head-hopping, but I never found it hard to follow. I wrote up an analysis of his head-hopping, here, if you're curious to see one successful author's technique.

IceCreamEmpress · Jul 17, 2009

A lot of readers don't like within-scene POV switches.

Other readers like it just fine, and it's certainly something that one sees in published work by authors who have gained praise for their technical gifts.

Let's say that it's a risk, and if the payoff seems worth it for you, take the risk.

scarletpeaches · Jul 17, 2009

JamieMT said:
ScarletPeaches - so is all POV switching "headhopping", or just when it's overdone? Just curious - I've heard the term, but thought it referred to switching constantly, rather than by chapter or every few chapters (I normally do a 2:1 or 3:1 MC to 2nd MC ratio). Just curious...doesn't matter, I guess, since this mid-scene switch I'm doing is outside that realm (and probably an abnormal occurrence).

Bear in mind I'm just giving my (vehement

) opinion.

It's headhopping when there's no visible 'break' between points-of-view, as with a scene break marked this way:

#

Or, rather than a centred hash mark, breaking for another chapter.

If you switch POV in each chapter, that's fine. You can't get any clearer than a blaring header signifying a new section of the book!

Dale Emery · Jul 17, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
I know not every reader is as violently anti as I, but it just reads as baggy writing when I see it.

When I'm reviewing, when I see mid-scene POV switches, I almost always see other major flaws in the writing. Because of that, I've conditioned myself to expect other flaws when I see POV switching. So when I see a mid-scene POV switch, I respond with alarm.

I think that my conditioning is unfortunate. The challenge for me is to remember that though POV switching often comes with other major flaws, that doesn't mean POV switching is a flaw in and of itself. I've seen POV switching done well. Rarely.

And still, I initially respond with alarm.

Dale

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