Swearing in a YA novel?

Honey Nut Loop · Jun 20, 2005

This post is exactly what it says in the title. To what extent do you think swearing is acceptable in YA novels? I know i've read books with swear words in them for YA's but i wanted other people's opinions. Lease could you tell me what sort of words you would accept,if any, if that is possible? It would be much appreciated.

thank you very much

Writer2011 · Jun 20, 2005

I have read a few YA novels and to my knowledge I didn't see much if any at all!!! But it all depends on your story and what you are trying to get across.

~Bill~

Duncan J Macdonald · Jun 20, 2005

YA Swearing

Go on down to the local teen/pre-teen hangout(s) and, as you walk by, listen in to some of their conversations.
What to some of us would be swearing (or worse) is to them a normal mode of communication.
Don't know if that would fly in a YA book, but it would lend a certain authenticity.

PattiTheWicked · Jun 20, 2005

Honey Nut Loop said:
This post is exactly what it says in the title. To what extent do you think swearing is acceptable in YA novels? I know i've read books with swear words in them for YA's but i wanted other people's opinions. Lease could you tell me what sort of words you would accept,if any, if that is possible? It would be much appreciated.

thank you very much

I think it depends on your story. If you're writing a story about kids who swear, then they would probably swear. But not all kids do.

I just finished a YA novel geared towards 10 - 14 year olds. There's no swearing in it. It's not because I'm a prude or a goody-two-shoes, but because the kids in it are kids who just don't happen to swear (although one of them refers to things as being "craptastic" on occasion).

For me, the bottom line is, what's your target market? Kids who buy their own books, or kids whose moms buy the books for them?

katiemac · Jun 20, 2005

Go for it. I just finished reading the YA novel about fifteen year olds, so they're in high school level. In all honesty, it doesn't make sense for high school kids NOT to swear. Even the "good kids" swear nowadays, with of the proper exceptions, of course. You hear it all the time from your friends, your classmates - heck, even some teachers. And kids appreciate that - the teachers who realize their students are mature enough so they don't have to censor themselves. I think being the author of the novel they're reading works that way, too. If it "feels" like your characters should swear, please don't hold back. (I wouldn't use it often, though, only when necessary, and even then the worst I'd use was "sh*t.") There's nothing more unrealistic to a kid's ear than to hear, "Gosh darn it, Maggie, we missed the bus!"

maestrowork · Jun 20, 2005

There's the realistic part of it: yeah, YA swear.

Then there's the marketability part of it: would publisher buy a ms. with swear words?

Christine N. · Jun 20, 2005

Sometimes I take the cheater's way out. I write "So-and so cursed under her breath." Lots of writers for the younger YA audience do. Older books I think you can get away with more.

Aconite · Jun 20, 2005

maestrowork said:
Then there's the marketability part of it: would publisher buy a ms. with swear words?

I think much depends on which words we're talking about. "Damn" is barely recognized as a swear word these days. "Motherf*cker," on the other hand, still gets attention.

katiemac · Jun 20, 2005

Then there's the marketability part of it: would publisher buy a ms. with swear words?

Yes. To an extent, like Aconite said. I doubt any children's press would print "mother****er." But like I said, the book I just finished reading was YA and published by Delacorte Press (subdivision of Random House). Not only did the girls swear ("sh*t" approximately 4 or 5 times), one of them lost her virginity, too - at 15, to a 19-year-old boy. So... take with that what you will.

The book's a New York Times bestseller, has two or three sequels out or in the works, and is a highly critically-acclaimed movie this summer. (Can you guess what book it is yet?)

Anyway, I don't think there's any publisher who's going to throw you out for a couple of swears. Like I said before, the teens reading these novels appreciate the exploration of real-life themes. Plus, they're smart. If you try to sugar-coat something, they'll pick up on it fast.

maestrowork · Jun 20, 2005

katiemac said:
The book's a New York Times bestseller, has two or three sequels out or in the works, and is a highly critically-acclaimed movie this summer. (Can you guess what book it is yet?)

Oh no, don't tell me it's that Ya Ya Sisterhood of the Traveling Panties!

RoseWrites · Jun 20, 2005

I agree, I think if the swear words are "damn" or "crap" along those lines, I would find that acceptable, realistic. However, coming from a mom's point of view (and I know this might be a bit unrealistic because kids do swear) but I might not be willing to get a book from my son/daughter if there are tons of swear words or even the harsher sounding swear words. You may be able to get your point across without having to use that, or at least using it excessively.

Aconite · Jun 20, 2005

maestrowork said:
Oh no, don't tell me it's that Ya Ya Sisterhood of the Traveling Panties!

*sigh* You are so not with it. It's obviously Pat the Bunny.

PattiTheWicked · Jun 20, 2005

Aconite said:
*sigh* You are so not with it. It's obviously Pat the Bunny.

Heh. From the trailers, it looks like the bunny's getting more than just a pat

Honey Nut Loop · Jun 20, 2005

Hi everyone and thanks for your contributions. The story is written from the first person perspective of a 15 or so year old girl. There isn't huge amounts of swearing but just occasionaly (and Freya(the character) doesn't give me much say in the matter) a swear word crops up though i try to keep it minimal. Crap has come up a couple of times but i don't see that as severe. What i'm more worried about is Freya referrring to a fellow student as bitchy. Is that too serious? I can try to edit it out but i think you all know where i'm comin gfrom when i say it was Freya, not me, who dug the hole.

I know this is how teenagers can talk as well as i've only just left school wher ei was exposed to them 6 days a week.

RoseWrites · Jun 20, 2005

I don't think stating someone is "bitchy" is not as bad as outright calling someone a "*****."

Saanen · Jun 20, 2005

I think *****/bitchy is quite mild, and I read a lot of YA. Damn, hell, ***, and bastard (this list is fun to write!) are also not too bad. Anything harsher--well, you might want to substitute a milder word until you sell it, and then find out if the publisher has a policy on swear words in YA.

I've seen some rather cunning substitutes for bad words in YA novels ("earhole" comes to mind), but I find them kind of awkward and unrealistic.

Edit: Apparently the forums don't agree with me that a*s and b*tch are mild.

CaptMorgan · Jun 20, 2005

In my YA novel, there is a moderate amount of swearing. I cut the list of words off right before it reaches the grand finale of cuss words, but I certainly think cursing adds a certain validity to my work. My main character is an eighteen-year-old college student, and personally, being a twenty-year-old college student, I have yet to find one peer that doesn't curse occasionally. I tried writing without my characters cussing, but it just doesn't ring true. If one of my characters is angry, how silly would it sound to have him say, "I'm really, really mad!" I find this is particularly the case with male characters.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 20, 2005

Swearing

Check with the publisher. Swearing is still not tolerated by many publishers, and even when it is, there's still a tight rope to walk. You really have to tread carefully until you know the ropes.

Whether or not kids really swear has almost nothing to do with the reality of marketing. Or with school libraries, or parentalal rection to such books.

Best advice is this: If you want to write YA, then read a bunch of them, else you won't have a clue what to put in or leave out. Or even how they should be written otherwise. And make sure they are YA. Not all books with teen characters are YA.

Mistook · Jun 21, 2005

My suspicion is that most YA novels are acually read by the 9-11 year old crowd. Most books aimed at adults from 20 to 40 are read by 13 to 19 year olds, etc etc.

So there's probably a good reason not to involve too much swearing in a YA novel.

KimJo · Jun 21, 2005

When I wrote the first draft of my YA novel, the MC/narrator swore several times. When I revised, all of the actual words disappeared and were replaced by phrases like "I swore" or "He muttered something under his breath." I was more comfortable with it and the character seemed happier too.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 21, 2005

Read several current books from the publishers you're interested in. How is swearing handled in their other novels?

Saanen · Jun 21, 2005

Mistook said:
My suspicion is that most YA novels are acually read by the 9-11 year old crowd. Most books aimed at adults from 20 to 40 are read by 13 to 19 year olds, etc etc.

So there's probably a good reason not to involve too much swearing in a YA novel.

Actually, you're exactly right. Kids like to read books with characters a few years older than they are. And you're also right that it's a very good reason to go easy on the swearing. Kids read books with older characters in part because they want to know how older kids act; the last thing we need to do is to encourage twelve-year-olds to cuss more.

So a book with a fifteen-year-old main character will be read MAINLY by under-fifteens; a book with an eighteen-year-old character will be read by fifteen/sixteen-year-olds. Even those books aimed at high school kids mostly show characters who actually act much older than their purported ages--and for the most part, I'd say high school books are read by middle school kids, because high schoolers are reading adult thrillers.

No, I don't really have authority to back my statements up, but I have seen my students consistently reading books featuring older kids and I remember doing the same when I was a kid.

Garpy · Jun 21, 2005

I'm writing a scifi YA series. Luckily the future slang used by the characters allows for some near miss words. So one particularly foul-mouthed character will occasionally say 'I'm fregging angry', or 'oh fregg that.' Obviously doesn't take a genius to work out what 'freg' replaces, but its a way of avoiding the F word.

You might want to take a look at the Wikipedia for youth slang and curses. Them kids can be very imaginative with the abuse they hurl at each other.

Christine N. · Jun 21, 2005

I was thinking that this has to do with genre too. Like Garpy said, if the book is not set in modern America, the characters would talk differently.
My fav. YA author, Tamora Pierce, writes for older kids, and I don't remember ever reading a swear word in any of her books. Again, they take place in fictional places. Maybe a Damn or too, but it obviously didn't jump out at me or I would have remembered it.

Roger J Carlson · Jun 21, 2005

The question is: Is it necessary?

Look at movies. In the theatre version of Beverly Hills Cop, Eddie Murphy cusses a blue streak. In the network version, the language is toned down considerably without detracting from the story. On the other hand, the network version of Blazing Saddles eviscerates the film. They even cut out the "N" word, which is the whole point of the film!

In Blazing Saddles, the cussing is necessary. In Beverly Hills Cop it is not (at least to the extent that the theatre version had).

I am personally uncomfortable with cussing. One of the reasons I chose YA fiction is because it gives me permission NOT to cuss. While it is more acceptable today to have cussing in YA fiction, it is also permissible not to. I don't cuss myself, and I find that my characters have little reason to either.

Swearing in a YA novel?

Honey Nut Loop

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Duncan J Macdonald

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RoseWrites

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