3rd act troubles

*i'm not a pro by any means

I try thinking of the third act as a logical necessity; either the protagonist/main character overcomes his internal flaw and fails (but possibly learns from failure and "grows") or realizes what he truly needs and restores balance to his world of the story.

Once you have an initial setup, the number of outcomes is usually limited because the character either realizes the above mentioned need or doesn't. Or, rather, if your mc becomes stronger in his convictions instead of transforming, it's a matter of him or her achieving his goal(s). while there may be an infinite number of types of events/decisions that can occur to change your character (again, these are limited by the setup), they will either lead your character to succeed or fail.

Based on your post, it sounds like you might be trying to accomplish too much. How many subplots do you have?

Have you thought about setting it to the side and letting it rest while you write a second one? I mean if you've been at it for years and 13 drafts, that's a heck of a lot of work for something that still isn't working. I'd also suggest getting it to a beta who can perhaps help you strip some of your unimportant clutter and distill it down to a more managable story. It could be you're trying to tackle far too many things for a single script to handle.

icerose said:

Have you thought about setting it to the side and letting it rest while you write a second one? I mean if you've been at it for years and 13 drafts, that's a heck of a lot of work for something that still isn't working. I'd also suggest getting it to a beta who can perhaps help you strip some of your unimportant clutter and distill it down to a more managable story. It could be you're trying to tackle far too many things for a single script to handle.

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What she said!

I find that third acts write themselves, at least in first drafts. They're often the fun bit, the payback for the first act set-up and the second act conflicts: If it's not working I suggest you may have a deeper problem which may need you to revisit acts one and two.

I've not read ore than this thread's opening sentence.

It seems to me (but I could be wrong) that you've become infatuated with a SINGLE screenplay.
You ought to let it lie and move on to working on other projects. Once you've gotten a few done you'll either come back ot it as an improved writer who can be more objective or you'll simply lay it to rest.

Best of luck.

clonedbeef said:

I am on the 3rd act of the 13th draft of my 1st screenplay...

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It's already been said, but thats the problem right there. No one wants to walk away from a script, let alone one they have spent THAT much time on but I promise you- its for the best. Sounds like your issue is the concept, but like I said- no one wants to walk away from an unfinished script but sometimes we have to.

Get a new concept, start #2. You will find its probably liberating to get away from the old characters and concept and you will also probably find its a LOT easier to finish this second script.

The best piece of advice I ever got when I started writing 13 years ago, (granted it was a lot easier for me at the time, I was 12).

"If it's your FIRST screenplay, chances are it's probably not that good anyway."

"First" being the important word here.

Now, I don't know your script personally this is a completely un-baised opinion. If you have spent this much time on it, I would hope that it's pretty good. I personally can't say anything, the longest time I've ever spent on One script was a little over three years. It's also the first script that I actually consider good, in line it was probably my 6th full script. Over that period, I did learn a lot not only about my story but my method of storytelling.

My advice to you would be this, Set it aside for a while. Not too long, but More than a day or a few hours. I would suggest as long as you feel it takes. Your starting to get stressed over the story and when that happens you become frustrated. Therefore you can't write.

Also, you mentioned you're on your 13th draft. By this point, if the ending isn't obvious it never will be. I spoke earlier of method, I start at the end and then work forward. Look at how you create a story and then use that to your advantage. Either way, it seems like it's time to set it aside for a while and move onto something else.

Dont get me wrong, i wish you the best and hope that you don't take any of this personally. Hope you get it figured out.

Have you tried NOT writing it as a screenplay? Take the scene that's giving you trouble and make it a narrative with full action and lines of dialogue like a book rather than a script. See if that change of focus doesn't help you. If you're able to write the internal monologues that won't be seen on screen, maybe you'll find the characters' purpose for the third act.

If you really don't think you can drop it, you really need to at least move on to a 2nd script, finish that- then come back to this if you must.

If you need a set of eyes on it, I will look at it for you.

It won't happen

You are trying to square the circle or perform some other impossible task.

The story cannot exist as you think you see it. Something is missing or is wrong. Even a crummy writer can write a story if there is a story there. You are stuck in the bog and will never get out of it by yourself.

Do two things:

1. Write a short synopsis (50-150 words). Do it in a list of five items that correspond to the five suggestions below. You can say a few things about each of the five. Do you see a beginning, a middle, and an end of some kind at least?
2. Ask someone to look at it and see if there is, in all honesty, a story there. If that person thinks so, then ask that person to tell you what the story is. Ask that person to tell you what he knows or believes might be true about the characters. Ask that person to tell you how he would prefer to see the story end. Talk it back and forth. Now write the story that the person tells you is there. It does not have to be the story that you thought was there. It may, in fact, be very different. Really different. Just try writing it anyway.

You are a little vague. Do you have a third act that you are trying to fix or do you have no third act at all? If you have no third act then figure out how you want it to end and write to that point. I never start a screen play unless I know where I am going to start and how I am going to end. Then it is generally a matter of taking the trip in between. If you have a third act that you are trying to fix then I agree with some of the others - put it away for a while and then go back with clearer eyes and edit it then. Either way you are going to have to edit it.

Try pitching your story on this thread:

First post a logline that includes your protag, the protag's goal, the main throughline of your story (what happens during the second act), and your antagonist.

Then post a very short synopsis of the first and second acts.

Then post how you think you want to wrap up the story.

More often than not, problems in the third act are due to something that you did or didn't do in the other two acts (most likely the first).

Your plot, central conflict and characters should be designed and built so that they lead to your climax. No matter how good you find the first 80 pages, if they are not leading you to your climax there is probably something wrong with the way you've developed one or more of these elements.

Personally I think that 13 drafts for a first script (or second or third) is a reasonable number (or even a bit low) of rewrites, so i wouldn't move onto another script, just because you're on your 13th draft.

I think DevelopmentExec said it very well. I have never written a screen play without many rewrites. Then put the play away for a while and then do another rewrite. then have someone read it who has never seen it and have them edit it for spelling and for forgotten words. I always read words as there that aren't. It is just human nature. Writing is editing.

Jim McLain said:

I think DevelopmentExec said it very well. I have never written a screen play without many rewrites. Then put the play away for a while and then do another rewrite. then have someone read it who has never seen it and have them edit it for spelling and for forgotten words. I always read words as there that aren't. It is just human nature. Writing is editing.

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It's not the number of rewrites that worries me though, it's the fact that after years of working on it and 13 rewrites he's yet to come up with a third act. That to me speaks of much deeper troubles, ones that might be nipping at his subconscious but that he's unable to unearth on his own. My call is, it's time for outside help.

I agree that third act problems are symptoms of either:

1) 1st or 2nd act shortcomings or
2) creative block.

I had one script that was such a BIG idea, any third act I came up with fell flat. Turned out the antagonist was never big enough to challenge the concept.

Another problem I had with it was I couldn't get over the feel that any and every outcome had been done ad infinitum. Like a cheesy action adventure, two steps into the third act you can put your brain in neutral and watch the chase/fireworks/fights/mayhem etc.

No matter what you write you know that if it gets made the second unit director is going to do what he wants with it anyway.

Agree with icerose, definitely don't worry about the re-writes ~ as long as it's getting progressively better. If you're stuck and you're serious, a professional consultant can do you wonders.