Aspiring TV WRITERS!

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

So I just joined. I figure I need to start communicating with like-minded people.

I am in college, Film Major. I learned all I know about Teleplay writing from books...from authors who haven't written anything in 10 years - so they publish a "how-to" in order to bring bacon home. My professors never sold anything beyond obscure in their life.

I'm from NY. I'm looking to build a fellowship of people I can meet, people who are particularly interested in Teleplay writing and know a thing or two (at least in concept) about how TV operates.

I want to co-write, co-create, I want to light a creative fire under someone's ass and have them do the same to me (kinky, lol), I want to get feedback on my stuff, give feedback. I want to re-invent some basic concepts of TV medium. I want like-minded people to be in my circle of friends. For now, there are none who care about the same thing as I do.

I've worked in Production before, for both scripted and talk show - but people of my age have no idea what they want. I'm pretty clear on my goals. I want to SELL MY SHOW. I want to meet someone who wants to SELL THEIR SHOW. I want someone with whom I can experience the same journey.

If you think you might want to meet in NY or even chat online - hit me up. I'm cool beans, promise.

icerose · May 1, 2009

Welcome to AW and good luck out there. I'm more in the feature territory myself but most of my credits are in an animated series, go figure.

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

icerose said:
Welcome to AW and good luck out there. I'm more in the feature territory myself but most of my credits are in an animated series, go figure.

Thanks for the wishes. Same to you.

I feel uneasy about writing a spec for someone else's show. Did you ever write a spec? If so, for what?

I know I almost have no choice, unless somethin' Wholly Holy descends from Heavens and buys my Pilot. Spec helps get an agent and maybe even a job. But I suppose, as a defiant youth, it's tempting to say: the bad part of TV writing is to have to emulate the writing style of a show, not write the way you want to.

With specs, not only does one have to work under parameters of a 4/5/6/7 Act structure for 1 hour drama, but also mind the tone and voice of the writing staff. But I should be so lucky to work for any TV show.

I wanted to do a spec for Dollhouse, but it might be getting canceled. You know why? Joss Whedon is running the show, but he isn't writing it. And I could tell immediately.

icerose · May 1, 2009

Purple_Coma said:
Thanks for the wishes. Same to you.

I feel uneasy about writing a spec for someone else's show. Did you ever write a spec? If so, for what?

I know I almost have no choice, unless somethin' Wholly Holy descends from Heavens and buys my Pilot. Spec helps get an agent and maybe even a job. But I suppose, as a defiant youth, it's tempting to say: the bad part of TV writing is to have to emulate the writing style of a show, not write the way you want to.

With specs, not only does one have to work under parameters of a 4/5/6/7 Act structure for 1 hour drama, but also mind the tone and voice of the writing staff. But I should be so lucky to work for any TV show.

I wanted to do a spec for Dollhouse, but it might be getting canceled. You know why? Joss Whedon is running the show, but he isn't writing it. And I could tell immediately.

See that's the thing, I've never aspired to be a tv writer. I wrote 13 features, and then a gig came up for an animated series. I had a couple shorts so I sent one in as a sample of my writing. I don't live in LA so I'll probably never really go anywhere script writing wise, but I still do it because I get gigs every now and then and because it has really helped hone my writing skills in general.

For the work I have done on the animated series, I have had to more or less change my voice to fit theirs. It's actually not as hard as it seems, my voice is apparently very flexible. I don't mind, the money is really nice. So I guess you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you.

I would imagine that since the tv shows tend to be very collaborative every writer on the team would have to bend some until all their voices matched so the shows would sound and feel consistent. If this is what you want to do, maybe you could get with a few writers and do exercises where someone writes in a particular voice and everyone copies that voice in their own pieces, and so on and so forth through the group.

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

icerose said:
See that's the thing, I've never aspired to be a tv writer. I wrote 13 features, and then a gig came up for an animated series. I had a couple shorts so I sent one in as a sample of my writing. I don't live in LA so I'll probably never really go anywhere script writing wise, but I still do it because I get gigs every now and then and because it has really helped hone my writing skills in general.

Do you think I have a better chance writing a spec for big general network rather than cable? I hear many good writers who have a choice about their work tend to flock to cable - all because of the more liberated nature of the medium.

That leaves many I Am Earls and Gossip Girls more open to new writers, regardless of how many freelancers they are obligated to hire within a given season. That's what I read.

I'm more into cable shows, however. I'd want to write for True Blood or Nip/Tuck. Heroes seems next to impossible, because their arcs are already 95% solid and decided upon.

I'm entering into the Comedy Script for TV contest by FOX (New York TV Festival), hoping to get noticed. I have a show that works. It would be like a rainbow, action-adventure. It's about dreaming way too much finally getting off your ass to do something (questionably) meaningful with your life - which I think many people will relate to.

Problem is: they want a Pilot with 25 - 35 pages for 30 minute script.

Tell me, if you don't mind, 15 events per 15 minutes - is that enough? It's about 1 event/minute. I spent 18 hours writing Act I.

I saw Fringe episode the other day, and 6 minutes passed before something happened. :Shrug:

Seriously? It boggles my mind.

My teaser is 1.5 paged long and is about 40 sec in length. And something happens on the fourth line after FADE IN. I wanted real funny shock value right from the start. Why don't people do that on TV anymore? I've noticed teasers turn into Act I with the longest sets ups. Audience in this country has very poor attention span as it is. If a script doesn't start with "Oh look it's an anorexic bear dancing ballet", how do are you supposed to retain the audience? I think that's why many shows fail nowadays.

The best Teasers come from Law & Order franchise. It takes them less than 1 minute to grab your interest.

icerose · May 1, 2009

That's way outside of my known territory. With mine then the story has to start pretty quickly and has to engage the audience throughout.

As for the shows, I have no idea. I don't even get tv reception here and I don't have cable so I don't even know most of the shows you are talking about.

I personally hate it when a story takes a while to get into things. I want it to shoot out of the gate, I tend to put my own characters hip deep in trouble or right before the trouble starts but it's already winding up when my stories begin.

Also since most of my work is features then I tend to have big events happen every 5 minutes. I don't count the little ones as they are many. I don't know how that works or the timing on television shows, I haven't honestly paid attention and it's been over 5 years since I watched any.

Hillgate · May 1, 2009

I have a friend who wrote an episode for a huge TV series starring young Mr Sutherland. You know the one. I don't know how he did this, but I suspect that at the episodic level it had more to do with who he knew than anything else, and it may have been that because of who he knew, the hook for the particular episode was exactly what was required. It was a one in a million shot from someone who already had an 'in'. And he only got to do one episode a few years ago. no more.

For the rest of us schmucks, myself included, it involves many years graft well away from the 'top' shows. Two other friends write regularly for British TV and have done for the last 15 years. They are very talented but still haven't made it. I haven't made it. I can earn some money, but normally the best results come from conceiving a show and having the balls and brains to run with it. First of all though you need to put in the graft, like Icerose, who I'm sure will have an IMDB listing longer than her arm in a few years because her work rate is good and her attitiude even better.

Learn!!!

odocoileus · May 1, 2009

Gervich's blog and book can get you up to speed on the business of TV writing:

http://blog.writersdigest.com/scriptnotes/

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307395316?tag=chadgervich-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0307395316&adid=0S2SEQ57BE7YRF8TAYM3&

The WGA guide is a good overview:

http://www.wga.org/content/default.aspx?id=156

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

icerose said:
Also since most of my work is features then I tend to have big events happen every 5 minutes. I don't count the little ones as they are many. I don't know how that works or the timing on television shows, I haven't honestly paid attention and it's been over 5 years since I watched any.

Thank for the advice you were able to give. I truly appreciate it.

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

odocoileus said:
Gervich's blog and book can get you up to speed on the business of TV writing:

http://blog.writersdigest.com/scriptnotes/

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307395316/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

The WGA guide is a good overview:

http://www.wga.org/content/default.aspx?id=156

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't have that grey book yet. I'm gettin' it!

Purple_Coma · May 1, 2009

Hillgate said:
For the rest of us schmucks, myself included, it involves many years graft well away from the 'top' shows. Two other friends write regularly for British TV and have done for the last 15 years. They are very talented but still haven't made it. I haven't made it. I can earn some money, but normally the best results come from conceiving a show and having the balls and brains to run with it. First of all though you need to put in the graft, like Icerose, who I'm sure will have an IMDB listing longer than his arm in a few years because his work rate is good and his attitiude even better

Schmucks? Lol, I'd had to think so. It's about the product and that first sacred pair of agent/producer eyes willing to take a look at your first five script pages. Anything beyond that depends on us. I actually have a great how-to book for features if you ever need a checklist:

"Your Screenplay Sucks: 100 Ways to Makes it Great" by William Akers. It's by no means perfect, but it definitely is a great way to capture the READER of your screenplay, not only the future viewer of your movie.

My screenwriting grades in school improved from B+ to A+ after this book...which I suppose means it's good to study from and refresh your skills.

Team 2012 · May 2, 2009

You're probably figuring out that anything anybody tells you about this on the internet is undated or just plain wrong.

That said, you DON'T write a spec for the show you want to write for. Any other show will do, hopefully one that plays to your strengths and you are very familiar with.

Sounds bassackwards (much of the truly bassackwards stuff in TV doesn't sound that way, but actually is) but there you have it. Reasons, if they matter, are compicated stuff of legal hassles and egos. They don't want to read something and realize it similar to what they're planning for nest month and are not vulnerable to harrassment from some outraged writer. Also, they have writers: are you trying to show them you're better?

So write a spec for a show. It's best for spec scripts (actually, under the circumstances, "sample" scripts) to be shows that are currently filming and showing. They won't look at a script for Barney Miller or M.A.S.H.

Copy the format of the show you're writing. That mostly means, if they have a teaser or tag, do the same. Note the length of the acts, which will probably diminish in length as you go along because that's how TV scripts work.

You probably should be talking to folks on a more TV oriented forum. AW is the mama gorilla of writing sites and you should be here because you can learn a lot about a lot of different stuff, but you'll find a higher caliber of discussion on this specific subject at tvwriter.com

PS... Forget reading books about how to do this. You've already tumbled to what's wrong with that. Online tutorials and discussion are better, more up to date, and more useful to you.

Good luck

Cyia · May 2, 2009

Also do the usual research of finding episode transcripts and show Bibles, etc. if you're wanting to take that 1 in a ka-gillion shot at a pilot one of these days.

Team 2012 · May 2, 2009

One of the advantages of the "only spec shooting shows" thing is that it allows you to be familiar with the show. The disadvantage is that if the show is cancelled, you have to write a new script to show around.

Getting "bibles" is extremely difficult. And nothing prepares you for writing a show better than familiarity with the show, seeing it and knowing the characters personally, so to speak.

Cyia · May 2, 2009

http://tvwriting.googlepages.com/

odocoileus · May 2, 2009

Couple of the better blogs by working TV writers, detailing the difficulties of breaking in and finding work.

http://www.samandjimgotohollywood.com/ (podcast goodness)

http://seriocity.blogspot.com/

Two of the best sitcom books:

http://shop.mwp.com/products/elephant-bucks

http://www.sandlerink.com/book.htm

Two of the best hour drama books:

http://www.televisionwriting.com/getthebook.html

http://shop.mwp.com/products/writing-the-tv-drama-series

Purple_Coma · May 3, 2009

Team 2012 said:
You're probably figuring out that anything anybody tells you about this on the internet is undated or just plain wrong.

That said, you DON'T write a spec for the show you want to write for. Any other show will do, hopefully one that plays to your strengths and you are very familiar with.

Sounds bassackwards (much of the truly bassackwards stuff in TV doesn't sound that way, but actually is) but there you have it. Reasons, if they matter, are compicated stuff of legal hassles and egos. They don't want to read something and realize it similar to what they're planning for nest month and are not vulnerable to harrassment from some outraged writer. Also, they have writers: are you trying to show them you're better?

So write a spec for a show. It's best for spec scripts (actually, under the circumstances, "sample" scripts) to be shows that are currently filming and showing. They won't look at a script for Barney Miller or M.A.S.H.

Copy the format of the show you're writing. That mostly means, if they have a teaser or tag, do the same. Note the length of the acts, which will probably diminish in length as you go along because that's how TV scripts work.

You probably should be talking to folks on a more TV oriented forum. AW is the mama gorilla of writing sites and you should be here because you can learn a lot about a lot of different stuff, but you'll find a higher caliber of discussion on this specific subject at tvwriter.com

PS... Forget reading books about how to do this. You've already tumbled to what's wrong with that. Online tutorials and discussion are better, more up to date, and more useful to you.

Good luck

Thanks for the words advice! It's really nice of you to give me your suggestions. I will definitely think about them. I know of Larry Brody (TVWriter.com), by the way. I read his book.

Well, obviously - if I were to write a spec, I'd want to show the staff writers that I can bring something to the table that they don't have right now. Whether I'm better or not is in the eye of the beholder (audience).

I am familiar with the idea of not writing for the show I love. I know that's runs the danger of writing a "fan fiction" story. But isn't writing all about caring for the characters? That's the dilemma of it. I don't care about the characters of, say, Gossip Girl. I'd rather take that risk of writing a self-contained standalone spec for Nip/Tuck (one of my favorite shows) and fail to catch the Showrunner's interest than write a spec about a show I know but don't care for.

Purple_Coma · May 3, 2009

odocoileus said:
Couple of the better blogs by working TV writers, detailing the difficulties of breaking in and finding work.

http://www.samandjimgotohollywood.com/ (podcast goodness)

http://seriocity.blogspot.com/

Two of the best sitcom books:

http://shop.mwp.com/products/elephant-bucks

http://www.sandlerink.com/book.htm

Two of the best hour drama books:

http://www.televisionwriting.com/getthebook.html

http://shop.mwp.com/products/writing-the-tv-drama-series

thank you so much!!

trucherrygirl · May 18, 2009

Hey! I'm another newbie here as well and I saw your post when I joined. I'm also interesting in writing for television and I'm a Film Studies major at college in California. Haven't taken any screenwriting courses yet, but I will be taking Beginning Screenwriting in the fall and maybe an online course in TV writing (if I can balance it with summer school) this summer.

I've also learned everything I know about TV writing from books so far! Here are some suggestions that I have, which are on my bookshelf. They are excellent "how-to" guides in addition to the ones posted above.

For the TV industry in general from a writer's perspective:
Small Screen, Big Picture by Chad Gervich

Sitcom book:
Writing Television Sitcoms by Evan S. Smith

Other TV writing books (both comedy & drama):
Crafty TV Writing by Alex Epstein
*Note: This guy also has a blog for screen & TV writing called Complications Ensue.
How to Write for Television by Madeline Dimaggio
Successful Television Writing by Lee Goldberg & William Rabkin

And one I don't have, but looks good:
Television and Screen Writing: From Concept to Contract (4th Edition) by Richard A. Blum

Since you seem like a Buffy/Angel/Dollhouse fan, have you checked out Jane Espenson's blog? She doesn't update anymore, but if you look in the archives there are plenty of tips she gives on writing for television. Pretty cool stuff.

I would LOVE to spec Dollhouse and I'm hoping to at some point, but we'll see. It IS being picked up for a second season, so hopefully I can get some of my creative juices flowing into a spec like that. I know it isn't a good idea to spec a "freshman" show, but I'd be willing to give it a shot!

Also, in the book Writing the TV Drama Series by Pamela Douglas (link posted in above post), the author spends a whole chapter on spec pilots and interviews a USC professor who teaches the writing the spec pilot class. Nowadays it IS possible for a spec TV pilot to be sold, but I'd still think having a few spec scripts of other shows in our portfolios (in addition to one or two features) wouldn't hurt either.

Hope this helps!

small axe · May 20, 2009

Others here obviously can offer you more insider or up-to-date info.

When I was reading about it more, the idea of writing a spec was indeed not so much to sell THAT specific script, but to give evidence of your skillz AND understanding of the series/characters ... or the genre. So ANY Dick Wolfe series spec would work in lining up that sort of show etc.

But like I said, others are already giving you killer advice there.

Someone was telling me that Sci-Fi network (soon to be "SyFy" -- how unsightly is that? but it's a Trademark they want, not a date to the prom) was open to ideas, which might be more "pilot"-centric if that's what you want.

Also, Cartoon Network must go through a ton of ideas, and shorts etc ... again, maybe a more available and open entry into the Biz?

AND you live in NYC? Write something for the army of low-budget DV filmmakers that live near you. To be a PRODUCED writer is a calling card -- and if you're wanting to sell someone on your "pilot" it'd be great to let them SEE your ideas, as a low-budget episode, rather than compete against a huge slush pile of scripts.

You might look at look budget stuff and think "How amateurish was this no $$$ production?" But the guyz with the $$$ know they can throw their $$$ at anything ... what the WRITER needs to do is grab them with YOUR ideas and skillz. THEY can ramp up the production quality with one "greenlight" etc

Anyway ... just thinking out loud. Good Luck. No retreat no surrender.

curious1980 · May 26, 2009

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm just as new as you are, if not newer. I hope that we both learn from the people here and vise versa. Best of luck to you.

Smiling Ted · Aug 14, 2009

Welcome to AW.

To meet fellow writers in NYC *in person* - go to this forum.

To break into TV, you usually need two spec scripts, not one.
Ideally, one of the specs should be for a show similar to the one you're approaching...that's why the best idea is to write specs for two dissimilar series.

Show runners are now also looking for a sample that isn't a pre-existing show at all, one that presumably showcases your originality.

There are usually only five or six series in any one year that are really "spec-able." There are also some shows that are so disliked by showrunners that a sample script from that show won't be read. ("NCIS" and "Ghost Whisperer" had that rep.)

As for breaking the rules and bringing originality to TV, you're better off trying to do that with one-off projects you control, either as film, theatre, or WebTV. Those projects then become samples you can bring to the room when you're pitching TV.

Good luck.

Brennen · Sep 17, 2009

Thanks for all the great info above. I'm also looking to get my foot in the door for television writing. I have a couple spec scripts done and am in the process of putting together query letters. I have a few names of agents I know work with television writers, but most of the lists I've seen online seem to mainly for agencies who focus on feature films. Would any of you be able to point me to a website where I might find the names of agents with a television focus?

Aspiring TV WRITERS!

Purple_Coma

icerose

Lost in School Work

Purple_Coma

icerose

Lost in School Work

Purple_Coma

icerose

Lost in School Work

Hillgate

On location

odocoileus

Purple_Coma

Purple_Coma

Purple_Coma

Team 2012

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Team 2012

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

odocoileus

Purple_Coma

Purple_Coma

trucherrygirl

small axe

memento mori

curious1980

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

Brennen