How Long Do You Let It Simmer

popmuze · Apr 24, 2009

I've just completed a solid first draft of a YA novel (61K in six weeks) with about as high a concept as I've ever come up with. I've re-read it twice without being able to make a single change.

The question is, do I let it sit around in my drawer for weeks or months so I can go back to it with fresh eyes, look around for betas who may take weeks or months to give me feedback, give it to my wife who really wants to see it but will probably take months or years to finish it. Or just send it to my agent hoping it's good enough to capitalize on the hot topic.

vrabinec · Apr 24, 2009

Unless you're in a big hurry, I'd put it down for a month or so, work on something else, maybe read a book in between to get your own voice out of your head, then come back to it and see how it sounds to you.

Charlie Horse · Apr 24, 2009

I'm not sure I'd skip the beta part. Give it out to whoever, write a short story or three in the meantime. I like to divert my attention completely after I finish a draft so when I go back I have no idea what I'm going to find.

scarletpeaches · Apr 24, 2009

However long it takes for me to write a draft of something else, then my head is full of that book so I can go back and read the first with fresh eyes.

Adam · Apr 24, 2009

As SP says (kinda), as long as it takes to get it out of your head.

A month or so works for me, or a week if it's a short story.

Clair Dickson · Apr 24, 2009

Send it to the betas. Then, work on something else.

I've only ever let things simmer a few days. Maybe this is why my novel isn't published? I dunno-- but my shorts are and I only let them simmer a day or so, before reviewing the final times. I think it depends on the person... and I couldn't sit on an 'unfinished' (aka not considered publishable) manuscript for more than a few days without dying to finish it.

But a few days and some extra eyes on it are useful. (Even if you're like me and you keep thinking about the story-- at least if it's off with Betas, you can't tweak it until you get their input back.)

motormind · Apr 24, 2009

Simmer? No way! Time is money!

Quossum · Apr 24, 2009

Send to betas. Write something else. Get it back or get back into it in a few months and start at the top with fresh eyes and hopefully a few reader comments in hand.

I, too, find it hard to see the slightest thing wrong when the piece is fresh. Give me a few months--even a year!--and certain hideous flaws glare and can be buffed into submission.

--Q

WendyNYC · Apr 24, 2009

You have an agent waiting for it? I'd send it to betas right away and let it simmer for 3 weeks or so.

cubed · Apr 24, 2009

I wait a week after it's finished and re-read it. After that, I wait as long as two months before picking back up to look at. Betas are for the second draft, not the first. You might look for Alpha readers (the firsts to look at the whole book and give you views on the overall plot and characters). Betas primarily focus on spelling and grammar. For my works, I've always had the policy of "It does me no good to correct the grammar of a section that I'm just going to throw away". Then again, I always send out the second draft to Alphas.

Matera the Mad · Apr 24, 2009

motormind said:
Simmer? No way! Time is money!

Only if you get paid for it. Sending out a raw manuscript is a great way to waste time.

I would grab some betas and simmer it at least a week or two with mind occupied elsewhere.

Craven · Apr 24, 2009

I'm going to agree with most, send it to betas and put it aside while you work on something else.

When you do get ready to review it, change the font on the whole thing. It will look new, the words will line up in different locations on the page, and you'll find mistakes a lot easier.

Good luck,

Stijn Hommes · Apr 24, 2009

Why would you wait for a few months to get feedback from your alpha or beta readers? Their first impression is just as important or even more so than their well-thought-out criticism. Try to get them to give feedback chapter by chapter. It gives you additional information and gives you something to do while they continue reading.

popmuze · Apr 24, 2009

Doesn't sound like anybody is in the why don't you just send it to your agent camp. Wouldn't his opinion be more valuable than a beta? The betas I've had in the past have always loved my books--but the last two are still circulating with this agent.

Let me just add, I wrote my first YA novel inside of six months and it got published and got good reviews. My latest non fiction book due out in September was basically written in four months. To me the hardest part is falling in love with an idea; the ideas usually percolate for years. This particular book is based on an idea I've had for many years, but just recently found the "hook" for. Then the thing poured out.

I've definitely got some other things to focus on (with a book coming out in September; blogs to write and contribute to, etc) but I'd hate to have the book just sitting there.

The only thing that might make me wait is if I thought my new book coming out would somehow help me sell this novel. Like, if the new book is reviewed everywhere and I'm on Oprah with a poster overlooking Times Square, publishers might not only be interested in my next novel, but willing to shell out more money.

Other than that happening, though, I feel like "Time's a wasting"--which is basically the theme of my book.

WendyNYC · Apr 24, 2009

Why don't you ask your agent what he prefers? If he feels that it's important to get this out quickly, he might be willing to read it while it's rough. Other agents might get annoyed at having to edit a first draft.

And I tell my betas not to tell me anything nice--only what needs to improve. Maybe I'm weird. I don't need the atta girls.

caitysdad · Apr 24, 2009

if I'm working a specfic piece, I always let it simmer overnight. The first time I was "done," I let it sit for a month. Closed it up, put it away, didn't want to see it. Then I started thinking about this and that, making notes, having ideas. It was a month later before I took it back out and realized I was no where near done.

Ken Schneider · Apr 25, 2009

How ever long it takes for you to forget alot about what you wrote.

You want to look at it with fresh eyes, and as you read you'll say to yourself, I wrote that?

You'll find the changes that need made at that time.

Don't get in a big hurry with your writing. Publishers sure won't, so let it rest a good while.

For me, I wait as long as 6 months.

Ken Schneider · Apr 25, 2009

WendyNYC said:
Why don't you ask your agent what he prefers? If he feels that it's important to get this out quickly, he might be willing to read it while it's rough. Other agents might get annoyed at having to edit a first draft.

And I tell my betas not to tell me anything nice--only what needs to improve. Maybe I'm weird. I don't need the atta girls.

I think that's the problem with new/newer writers. They tend to get in a hurry to see if their dream will come true. Their, (baby) so to speak is very close to their heart and most only want to hear others say good things about it. In realtiy they should be wanting what you discribed.

The cold hard truth which will only improve the chances of that dream coming true.

As an old football coach once said. Anything that's easy ain't worth a damn.

Wingedman · Apr 25, 2009

Simmer and Season to Taste.

As a former reader for a literary agent I ran across a lot of half-baked manuscripts. If the writer had just taken a little longer to go back through their work for consistency and for goodness sake, punctuation, they might have made it past my desk to the agent. I've read in various places that you should write three novels, minimum, before attempting to submit any of them. I would set this first one aside. If you have someone you can have read it that is not biased, do so. In the meantime complete another manuscript. When you are done, do the re-write. Then re-write the second manuscript. Read the first one more time just to make sure you are still happy with it and then send it to your agent.

Of course, throw all of this out the window if you agent is also your editor. If that is the case send it right now and get the ball rolling.

ChaosTitan · Apr 25, 2009

popmuze said:
Doesn't sound like anybody is in the why don't you just send it to your agent camp.

As I was reading through the replies, I was thinking this. I was going to ask about your relationship with your agent, and how comfortable you are in sending the manuscript to him/her without having anyone else look over it first. It also may depend on your consistency with first drafts. Have you written a solid, well-put-together story that has no glaring holes or flaws? Some authors are really good at it and can skip the beta/crit partner stage. Others still need that extra set of eyes before their agent gets it.

popmuze · Apr 25, 2009

Ken Schneider said:
I think that's the problem with new/newer writers. They tend to get in a hurry to see if their dream will come true.

I agree with this premise, as far as it applies to new/newer writers. However, I've had 14 books published, including three novels.

popmuze · Apr 25, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
As I was reading through the replies, I was thinking this. I was going to ask about your relationship with your agent, and how comfortable you are in sending the manuscript to him/her without having anyone else look over it first. It also may depend on your consistency with first drafts. Have you written a solid, well-put-together story that has no glaring holes or flaws? Some authors are really good at it and can skip the beta/crit partner stage. Others still need that extra set of eyes before their agent gets it.

I go both ways. I've used betas to see how they react to the characters, which is impossible for the author to know. Occasionally I've gotten a really good plot suggestion. But in the interests of time (and money) I'm leaning toward going the straight to the agent route on this one.

witchunter88 · Apr 25, 2009

Personally I would put it down for a week. I would be concerned if I still hadn't found anything that I could at least tweak before sending it to an agent. I find myself tweaking or completely revising my writing when I boot it up. After doing that I say send it.

Ken Schneider · Apr 25, 2009

popmuze said:
I agree with this premise, as far as it applies to new/newer writers. However, I've had 14 books published, including three novels.

That's great, but leaves me confused. I would think you'd already know the answer to your own question. Surely you've found yourself in this scenario before 14 times before?

Ken

popmuze · Apr 25, 2009

Ken Schneider said:
That's great, but leaves me confused. I would think you'd already know the answer to your own question. Surely you've found yourself in this scenario before 14 times before?

Ken

1) Non-fiction (interview collection): Got the deal based on proposal and a few sample chapters. Kept submitting new interviews as I finished them.
2) (Novel) Got the deal based on a sample chapter (!). Editor was waiting to read it as soon as I finished.
3 & 4: Novels with same company: These were a lot harder to write and went through many edits with a series of overworked editors.
5 - 14 (Non fiction)--based on proposals and sample chapters.

I'm a lot more confident in my non-fiction (especially these days). The novels were published in the 70s-80s.

Lately I've finished three novels (including this one) and the first two were extensively vetted by betas, with varying results. An agent finally took them on (but was much more interested in my non-fiction) and gave some suggestions too. The first two haven't sold as yet, which may be a combination of the premise and the market. I'm hoping if the new one sells it'll help lift the other two. Or if my latest non-fiction breaks out, it'll life my profile in general.

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