POV - your thoughts

SarahMacManus · Apr 20, 2009

How do you feel about alternating 1st person with 3rd person limited in one work? Do you think it works?

I can't think of any novels off the top of my head that use that - and I can't find it discussed by searching.

Your thoughts?

Delhomeboy · Apr 20, 2009

Hell, I'm doing it. So...I do hope it's not a problem.

Matera the Mad · Apr 20, 2009

There was some discussion of it somewhere recently, I think. But picking the search words can be treeeeky.

I don't see it as a problem per se, just a matter of right timing and doing the characters well.

BravoYankee · Apr 20, 2009

My prologue is from a 3rd person perspective, but then the rest stays in the 1st.

DeadlyAccurate · Apr 20, 2009

I've read books that do that. IIRC (I let my sister borrow the book, so I can't check), Kelley Armstrong's first Nadia Stafford book, Exit Strategy, switches between the heroine's 1st POV and the serial killer's 3rd POV.

I don't really care, so long as it's done right.

Claudia Gray · Apr 20, 2009

I've seen it done well, but most of the time, I admit, I find it jarring.

SarahMacManus · Apr 20, 2009

Yeah, it feels odd to me - although I'm a much faster and more prolific writer when I can really get inside the character's head.

Just wondering if anyone can think of a novel that is done that way.

And I've tried a multitude of searches in the forum, it's VERY tricky.

Fade · Apr 20, 2009

I wouldn't mind it done well. I've seen it done mediocre.

Judg · Apr 20, 2009

Widdershins by Charles de Lint. And probably a lot of his stuff, but that's all I've read.

ChaosTitan · Apr 20, 2009

Loved it: Red, by Jordan Summers

Couldn't get past the first 100 pages: Maximum Ride, by James Patterson

So far, those are the only two books I've read that mixed first and third. My opinion is fifty-fifty.

Fade · Apr 20, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
Couldn't get past the first 100 pages: Maximum Ride, by James Patterson

That's the mediocre example I was thinking of. And When the Wind Blows (which I liked better).

maestrowork · Apr 20, 2009

SarahMacManus said:
How do you feel about alternating 1st person with 3rd person limited in one work? Do you think it works?

Question, is the 3rd limited from a different character's POV or the same as the 1st person?

I've seen it done from a different POV character and that works fine, I think -- if it's written well.

If it's the same character, then I find it jarring, and would question why you need two different narrative styles for the same character.

SarahMacManus · Apr 20, 2009

maestrowork said:
Question, is the 3rd limited from a different character's POV or the same as the 1st person?
I've seen it done from a different POV character and that works fine, I think -- if it's written well.
If it's the same character, then I find it jarring, and would question why you need two different narrative styles for the same character.

I was going to use short bits of 1st person for reaction/contemplation/backstory and 3rd person limited for all action for the same character and two others.
All action would be in 3rd person limited; follow up reaction would be in first person.
I'm not sure it's going to work, just thought I'd play with it a little.

maestrowork · Apr 20, 2009

SarahMacManus said:
I was going to use short bits of 1st person for reaction/contemplation/backstory and 3rd person limited for all action for the same character and two others.
All action would be in 3rd person limited; follow up reaction would be in first person.
I'm not sure it's going to work, just thought I'd play with it a little.

Same character? Then I think you'd be better served sticking to one POV. Or, whenever you're following the same character/MC, use 1st person -- don't switch between 1st and 3rd for him -- that's like a POV whiplash. It's disorienting for the readers and, IMO, unnecessary. You don't need 3rd person to write action, and you don't need first person to do thoughts and feelings.

In my first book, I used to have the flashbacks told in 3rd person while the main story was told in 1st. But my editor suggested that I keep it all to first person because switching to 3rd person was a) unnecessary, and b) confusing, even though eventually she realized it was the same character. Basically, anything that takes your readers out of the story and make them scratch their heads would be a risky move.

Toothpaste · Apr 20, 2009

Well . .. um . . . I'm doing that. With the same character's POV. It's my latest, my YA, that hopefully my agent will be shopping soon.

My use for it is similar to yours actually. My book is a re-imagining of Shakespeare, so for the actual plot everything is told in 3rd person past, but then I interject what I consider soliloquies, told first person present. The idea is that my main character is telling his own story in third person, but every once and awhile decides to talk in the moment to his readers.

I guess my point is . . . it's doable (lol, I hope it's doable, I mean so far out of all the problems I've had to fix, the POV switch hasn't ever been mentioned), but make sure you have a concrete reason for doing it. Oh, and something else I've learned, try not to disrupt the action too much with the first person. You don't want your story to suddenly stall. Spend more time moving the story forward, than the introspection. Otherwise your readers are going to get uber annoyed.

SarahMacManus · Apr 20, 2009

Judg said:
Widdershins by Charles de Lint. And probably a lot of his stuff, but that's all I've read.

That sounds fascinating, and just the sort of thing I like to read. Thanks for the recommendation and the help.

Do YOU think it was well done? Or did you find it put you out of the story?

SarahMacManus · Apr 20, 2009

Toothpaste said:
Well . .. um . . . I'm doing that. With the same character's POV. It's my latest, my YA, that hopefully my agent will be shopping soon.

Thanks for that. I guess the only way to be sure is to try it. Should be easily mended if it's too clunky.

I will avoid an overload of introspection.

Judg · Apr 20, 2009

SarahMacManus said:
That sounds fascinating, and just the sort of thing I like to read. Thanks for the recommendation and the help.

Do YOU think it was well done? Or did you find it put you out of the story?

De Lint really complicates things by having multiple viewpoints, some told in first person, some in third. The chapter headings tell you who's speaking.

At first (like at the beginning of Chapter 2) it really threw me, because I didn't know what was going on. Once I got used to it, I was OK.

Red_Dahlia · Apr 20, 2009

I'm planning on trying this for one of my next projects. Hopefully it'll work out ok. Good luck!

gypsyscarlett · Apr 21, 2009

Judg said:
Widdershins by Charles de Lint. And probably a lot of his stuff, but that's all I've read.

If you liked that, try his, "Someplace to be Flying".

To the OP: Like a lot of things, it's all in how the writer handles it. Good luck!

Shara · Apr 21, 2009

It seems to work very well in crime thrillers, with the perspective of the killer in 1st person, and the detective's POV in 3rd person. It works because although we're inside the head of the killer, we don't really know who he is, and the thrill of the chase as the detective stalks the killer is still there.

Mark Billingham uses this technique in 'The Straw Men' as I recall.

I would advise against using 1st/3rd viewpoint for the same character. I think this would add unnecessary confusion.

Shara

Raphee · Apr 21, 2009

Nothing against it.
Nothing against any POV as a matter of fact.
As long as it....

eveningstar · Apr 21, 2009

I think it can definitely work if done well and presented so the narrative structure doesn't get confusing.

My current WIP alternates 3rd with 2nd, and has a few sections in 1st. So far none of my beta readers have had any problems with it.

maestrowork · Apr 21, 2009

I was saying there would be a potential for confusion especially if you're switching between 1st and 3rd for the same character. So beware.

You can always just write it, and see if it works. If it doesn't, it can be fixed. And if you tell your story well enough, and if that one part doesn't work, you may still get the contract, just be prepared your editor may want you to rewrite that. But you never know until you try, and it's all in the execution.

SarahMacManus · Apr 21, 2009

maestrowork said:
I was saying that the would be a potential for confusion especially if you're switching between 1st and 3rd for the same character. So beware.

You can always just write it, and see if it works. If it doesn't, it can be fixed. And if you tell your story well enough, and if that one part doesn't work, you may still get the contract, just be prepared your editor may want you to rewrite that. But you never know until you try, and it's all in the execution.

Yes, I can see the potential for confusion from here.

I'm going to try it - it won't be difficult to change later if it's awkward and might speed up the process for me. It won't require a lot of rewriting if it doesn't work.

POV - your thoughts

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