FAQ?

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 25, 2009

It seems to me from reading the proposal thread for this forum that we might benefit greatly from a "definition" of slipstream/intersticial literature. I have a vague idea of what it's about, but I'm not sure I could consistently classify things properly. What decides that a piece is outside of genre borders?

Aristocrazy · Feb 25, 2009

when "Nothing is more real than nothing" -Malone Dies

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Gray Rose · Feb 25, 2009

I am sick so I am not at all coherent today, so this is not a definition but rather a random thought.

A well-known editor at a well-known genre mag once advised me, in a rejection, that poetry and prose do not go together. "Poetry within a narrative [is] a major distraction, usually interrupting the pacing badly, even when integral to the story's central conceit".

Since the whole point of this particular story was the blend of poetry and prose, and amputating the poetry would neatly kill my story, I had to make my peace with the fact that most genre mags would pass on it exactly because it combines the two forms. In this regard the story is interstitial, although not as interstitial as some of my other stories.

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 25, 2009

Both good answers. I especially like yours, Rose, though it brings up a further question.

Is it only interstitial if it has already been rejected by the categories of fiction? I'm sure there are stories that could be acceptable in sci-fi, fantasy, literary etc from the writer's perspective. Can you really tell for sure before you hear responses? One area that seems to me to be especially sketchy is the line between paranormal and interstitial. Are there certain conventions that can help to dilineate the boundaries? When is a ghost merely a ghost, and when is it a serious question about reality?

Gray Rose · Feb 25, 2009

Again I am sick, so not coherent, but I would say that sometimes it is a matter of archetypes. I can rattle off a list of epic fantasy or hard SF archetypes, but I couldn't do the same for interstitial. Paranormal may have been interstitial at one time but at this point it has developed archetypes and tropes, and thus is recognizable. Interstitial writing will not be that easy to define, unless you are defining it through negation. "Too poetic to be X", "too dark to be Y", "Too literary," "is this fiction or non-fiction?" and the ever-popular "not what we're looking for" may be hints that your story is interstitial. I call it the "giant squid syndrome" because an interstitial story often elicits an "I don't know what to do with this!!" panic reaction.

Shweta · Feb 25, 2009

Or an "I don't know how to read this" negative reader response.

Perhaps we could start off with ~~dictionary~~wikipedia definitions, and links to organizations and anthologies and writers of note, and go from there? I'd be willing to compile that. Not today though.

Shweta · Feb 25, 2009

So what are the frequently asked questions?

- Definitions of genres/areas
- Recommended authors working in those areas, maybe
- ??

Another question: does multiculti spec fic fit here at all? Are people interested in hearing/talking about writers of different cultures/subcultures doing interesting unusual things with genres? Nalo Hopkinson is an obvious starting example...

MacAllister · Feb 25, 2009

Shweta said:
- Definitions of genres/areas
- Recommended authors working in those areas, maybe
- ??

Another question: does multiculti spec fic fit here at all? Are people interested in hearing/talking about writers of different cultures/subcultures doing interesting unusual things with genres? Nalo Hopkinson is an obvious starting example...

I'd certainly hope so, yeah!

bsolah · Feb 25, 2009

I'm confused, but oh so curious. Is Interstices like writing that can't be defined in a usual genre, crosses multiple genres or both?

Tepelus · Feb 25, 2009

I'm confused with you bsolah.

Gray Rose · Feb 25, 2009

Shweta said:
Another question: does multiculti spec fic fit here at all? Are people interested in hearing/talking about writers of different cultures/subcultures doing interesting unusual things with genres? Nalo Hopkinson is an obvious starting example...

As long as it falls between the cracks yes. So often if you are writing multi-cultural stuff you get the squid response... I would say it fits.
And yes, Nalo fits perfectly.

Which brings me to... LCRW!!! We forgot to add it to markets!

Shweta · Feb 25, 2009

bsolah said:
I'm confused, but oh so curious. Is Interstices like writing that can't be defined in a usual genre, crosses multiple genres or both?

Yes.
Though something that crosses genres but could be comfortably shelved/understood as any of them is... less interstitial than something that crosss genres and breaks the unspoken rules of every genre it partakes of.

Interstices are the spaces between things.

Gray Rose · Feb 25, 2009

bsolah said:
I'm confused, but oh so curious. Is Interstices like writing that can't be defined in a usual genre, crosses multiple genres or both?

Welcome - and it could be a), b) or both. For the Interfictions anthology, I think they wanted stories that cross multiple genres, the weirder the better.

Tepelus said:
I'm confused with you bsolah.

Welcome to the forum

I think - just my imho - is that if we will be looking for definitions too hard we will be disappointed. The nature of liminal spaces is to be porous, ambiguous , and dangerous

bsolah · Feb 25, 2009

Hmmm, this is interesting. Perhaps I don't fit here and still in horror.

I write Marxist horror, as in I probably still use a lot of the conventions of horror, but there's more characterization and theme in regards to political messages, much like Steinbeck, Orwell etc. The only problem is that the politics don't seem to be appreciated by the horror readers, and the goriness can often turn off the political ones.

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 25, 2009

Gray Rose said:
Again I am sick, so not coherent, but I would say that sometimes it is a matter of archetypes. I can rattle off a list of epic fantasy or hard SF archetypes, but I couldn't do the same for interstitial. Paranormal may have been interstitial at one time but at this point it has developed archetypes and tropes, and thus is recognizable. Interstitial writing will not be that easy to define, unless you are defining it through negation. "Too poetic to be X", "too dark to be Y", "Too literary," "is this fiction or non-fiction?" and the ever-popular "not what we're looking for" may be hints that your story is interstitial. I call it the "giant squid syndrome" because an interstitial story often elicits an "I don't know what to do with this!!" panic reaction.

The second part basically says what I was trying to say about sending it out: the idea of definition through negation. Thanks for putting that so clearly, Rose.

On the subject of paranormal:
Say I have a story that has a lot of paranormal elements, such as ghosts and possibly some psi, but also incorporates a lot of elements from other genres. Like a dream-world, or questioning reality, or very strong sociological themes (I'm sure you can tell by now that this really isn't hypothetical)? Would that be interstitial? I mean, I've never had much interest in writing genre paranormal, though I've often enjoyed reading it. Nor does the piece really fit under my more common genre of sff. I don't think it's out there enough to be a mindfuck, but I can't really think of a specific genre that it would fit better than another. Does self-analyzed negation count?

bsolah · Feb 25, 2009

Wouldn't that be more speculative fiction? It's easy to put a story in that category is it crosses between horror, fantasy and/or sci-fi.

But I'm curious about the sociological themes, as it relates to questions about my own 'genre' as I said above. Do strong sociological themes put a story in a certain genre? I can think of plenty of genre fic that have strong themes but would definitely put in their respective genre.

Shweta · Feb 25, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
On the subject of paranormal:
Say I have a story that has a lot of paranormal elements, such as ghosts and possibly some psi, but also incorporates a lot of elements from other genres. Like a dream-world, or questioning reality, or very strong sociological themes (I'm sure you can tell by now that this really isn't hypothetical)? Would that be interstitial? I mean, I've never had much interest in writing genre paranormal, though I've often enjoyed reading it. Nor does the piece really fit under my more common genre of sff. I don't think it's out there enough to be a mindfuck, but I can't really think of a specific genre that it would fit better than another. Does self-analyzed negation count?

I would call that interstitial.
Except when querying agents who repped genre paranormal

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 25, 2009

bsolah said:
Wouldn't that be more speculative fiction? It's easy to put a story in that category is it crosses between horror, fantasy and/or sci-fi.

But I'm curious about the sociological themes, as it relates to questions about my own 'genre' as I said above. Do strong sociological themes put a story in a certain genre? I can think of plenty of genre fic that have strong themes but would definitely put in their respective genre.

I like and don't like the label "spec fic". I do like how it groups several genres that have a history of major crossover. But I don't like how you can just throw almost anything that remotely resembles one of those sub-genres into the ring with that label.

I don't write horror, I tend not to like horror, though I have enjoyed a few good stories. This is not to say I am aiming for spec fic to avoid that label, however. I don't think the story is necessarily speculative. It's not a what-if question in extended prose form. There are certainly many elements in it that could be considered parts of spec-fic, though. A definite feeling like that of cyberpunk, and some fantasy tropes, for instance. If I had to place it in spec-fic for marketing purposes, I'd lean more towards a fantasy label. It certainly isn't sci-fi, thanks to the fantastic otherworld.

But really, when I read stuff on interstitial, it seemed to fit. It doesn't follow genre conventions in terms of plot or archetype. There is a slot of settng and maybe premise similarity, but it doesnt seem to be going where most genres take those conventions. The first article here:http://www.interstitialarts.org/wordpress/?p=10 seems to describe it closely. I'm not intentionally making it jarring, but is has tended to be so. It doesn't follow expectations, and it does use various genre tropes, but without letting them take over the story.

AMCrenshaw · Feb 25, 2009

Say I have a story that has a lot of paranormal elements, such as ghosts and possibly some psi, but also incorporates a lot of elements from other genres. Like a dream-world, or questioning reality, or very strong sociological themes (I'm sure you can tell by now that this really isn't hypothetical)? Would that be interstitial?

Reminds me of The Stand, or at least Stephen King in general. I consider some of his work interstitial-- at the least a major influence. H.P. Lovecraft is another (except substitute "prehistory for "sociological").

AMC

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 25, 2009

AMCrenshaw said:
Reminds me of The Stand, or at least Stephen King in general. I consider some of his work interstitial-- at the least a major influence. H.P. Lovecraft is another (except substitute "prehistory for "sociological").

AMC

From what I know of the stand, the two aren't very similar. But I do agree that Lovecraft and King occasionally/often slip into the cracks.

Dawnstorm · Feb 26, 2009

Shweta said:
Though something that crosses genres but could be comfortably shelved/understood as any of them is... less interstitial than something that crosss genres and breaks the unspoken rules of every genre it partakes of.

That's pretty much the best way to put it. It's all relational. Which means there's no essence, no content to being interstitial. Today's interstitial may be tommorrow's convention. Stop worrying and write your stories. If you can't place it elsewhere, you have a safety net.

And it helps to know that there are other people playing in the wild. But remember that the wild will stop being the wild if you create a settlement; the people playing there often have their own homes (not necessarily only one). A few, though, are feral.

Shweta · Feb 26, 2009

Dawnstorm said:
That's pretty much the best way to put it. It's all relational. Which means there's no essence, no content to being interstitial. Today's interstitial may be tommorrow's convention. Stop worrying and write your stories. If you can't place it elsewhere, you have a safety net.

Ideally it will be.
Nobody will edit the Interfictions anthology more than twice, and nobody will publish in it more than once, is the idea

Moving target!

lkp · Feb 26, 2009

I'm so glad this forum has been started, and I've learned from reading the posts here. In some ways, it seems to me that this forum's greatest contribution could be that it can become a place for the ongoing project of understanding what interstitial fiction might mean.

I see two possible cleavages in interpretation. There may be some who may be interested in a specific borderzone between two genres, say fantasy and multicultural fiction, just for example. Any of these borderzones could become genres of their own in time, like what has happened with say paranormal romance or urban fantasy.

Others may be interested in borderzones in themselves, in the idea of writing between different kinds of borders, whatever they may be. When one zone becones genre, they may be inclined to move to another because it is writing in a state of liminality, rather than the specific elements of any two or more genres that interests them.

I should maybe say that I don't think there is anything wrong with either approach, or with the idea of plural approaches.

GhostAuthor · Feb 26, 2009

Wow, a home for me! :hi:

I write what I call a 'Heinz 57' or mutt-mix genre. It is primarily dark fantasy/horror, but also part mystery/thriller with paranormal tossed in.

I have been saying that I write speculative fiction since it was the closest I could get, but it's that plus.

Oh, and speaking of markets. . . I know for a fact that Aberrant Dreams magazine likes these types of stories (they've published mine).

Liosse de Velishaf · Feb 26, 2009

lkp said:
I'm so glad this forum has been started, and I've learned from reading the posts here. In some ways, it seems to me that this forum's greatest contribution could be that it can become a place for the ongoing project of understanding what interstitial fiction might mean.

I see two possible cleavages in interpretation. There may be some who may be interested in a specific borderzone between two genres, say fantasy and multicultural fiction, just for example. Any of these borderzones could become genres of their own in time, like what has happened with say paranormal romance or urban fantasy.

Others may be interested in borderzones in themselves, in the idea of writing between different kinds of borders, whatever they may be. When one zone becones genre, they may be inclined to move to another because it is writing in a state of liminality, rather than the specific elements of any two or more genres that interests them.

I should maybe say that I don't think there is anything wrong with either approach, or with the idea of plural approaches.

I see the schism. I think I'm not on either side, though. There's the concious movement, and then the people who just don't give a damn. I find the movement interesting. But I don't self-identify with either intentional cross-genre or liminailty writing. I just write what I write. Maybe I'll write something more genre or less genre like in the future. But I seem to be in the cracks whether I like it or not for the moment. But I'm not letting these new borders constrict me.

FAQ?

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