Beginning a suspense novel with a flashback from the future

The Last Knight · Feb 23, 2009

Hello,

Here's my dilemma: I am revising my suspense novel and I would like to start with a fighting scene, which is a flashback from the future - part of a larger, fiercer battle that takes place somewhere past the mid-point in the novel. However, I am not sure about how to connect the continuing story to the battle scenes, from which I am dissecting a scene. Should it just flow normally, assuming the reader will connect the dots as to where the initial fighting scene came from?

I hope I have explained this clearly and any replies are greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

TLK

timewaster · Feb 23, 2009

I'm a bit confused actually.
Why do you want to start with this? messing with time is great but not if it bounces the reader straight out. Can you clarify a bit?

The Last Knight · Feb 23, 2009

Sure, thanks for asking that. I believe the beginning of my novel is not quite engaging, so I am thinking a fighting scene can serve to engage the reader. Then, when the story slows down with the details of how the mission begins and where it is going, the reader has some foretaste of what is going to happen soon.

Does that make sense?

TLK

Danthia · Feb 23, 2009

Personally, I strongly dislike this technique, be it in books or movies or TV shows. I do so because the scene showed often gives away a strong moment later in the story, so you know where the story is going and that saps all the mystery and tension away. It also puts an action scene right at the start before the reader has a chance to bond with any character, so none of it matters yet. Someone they don't know or care about is in a battle they know nothing about with stakes they are unaware of. Those scenes are usually pretty boring. They become exciting only when the reader cares about the outcome and the people involved. It's rare when this technique does more than start the book with a bang, which often has the opposite effect for reasons mentioned. But this is just how I feel, and others feel differently.

If you use this, then I'd suggest letting the scene come naturally in the story so the reader can now place it in its proper context. Depending on your POV structure, you might show it from another POV to mix it up a little so the scene isn't the exact same thing twice.

I would also consider why you're starting the novel this way. Does this flash forward scene accomplish something you can't do any other way, or is it just to start with something exciting? Why is it important that this scene be the reader's first impression of the story?

Ah, you responded just as I posted. If that is your reason, I'd strongly recommend against this. It all likelihood, it won't do what you want. I'd suggest finding another way to start your story so it grabs the reader with what's happening at that moment. And if you have a scene that's not that engaging, yank that sucker out <grin>. Every scene should be engaging, especially the opening scene.

Red-Green · Feb 23, 2009

Why not just make the beginning of your novel engaging? The problem with opening on a fight scene is that you'll be asking your readers to care whether characters they don't even know live or die.

The Last Knight said:
Sure, thanks for asking that. I believe the beginning of my novel is not quite engaging, so I am thinking a fighting scene can serve to engage the reader. Then, when the story slows down with the details of how the mission begins and where it is going, the reader has some foretaste of what is going to happen soon.

Does that make sense?

TLK

ETA: Jinx, Danthia, you beat me to it re: fight scenes in the opening of books.

nevada · Feb 23, 2009

this is a very old trick, and in my opinion, it is just that a trick. a bit of sleight of hand to distract the reader that the beginning of something is boring. tv shows do it all the time too. really exciting segment before the credits and then after the credits the show flashes back and shows all the boring wind up to the exciting segment, hoping the reader won't realize the boring wind up is, well, boring.

Why not just move up your starting point to something more interesting. it doesnt have to be a battle or an explosion just something to catch the reader's attention and makes him want to read more. It sounds, to me anyway, that a lot of the beginning of your novel is backstory and info dumping. that's probably why it's not engaging. You don't need all that. take all the backstory and sprinkle it through the novel, skip all the info dumping. just get right into where the story starts properly and show the reader glimpses of backstory and info. the reader needs less info than you think.

This is speculation of course, but thats what it sounds like to me. Books that start with a huge fight in a vacuum becuase i don't know what's going on, i don't know the characters, i have no stake in the story, and then flashback to the beginning boring stuff, annoy me and usually get put down. there are better ways of doing it. good luck.

ETA Danthia, Redzilla, and I posted at exactly the same time. spooky.

The Last Knight · Feb 23, 2009

Thanks for the replies. The story, as it is, actually starts with something exciting, a team of four secret agents is dispatched to investigate some strange sightings (human, not alien). Then, it builds up rhythm as things unfold and one of the agents is working against the others. I was wondering whether a fighting scene would bring some extra value to the first part of the story.

TLK

nevada · Feb 23, 2009

short answer? No.

allow the story to build the momentum on its own, without the flim flam of unnecessary flash forwards.

Red-Green · Feb 23, 2009

Flim flam is exactly what that is, as Nevada says. Just make the beginning of your story engaging.

(And great minds think alike, Nevada.

)

MsGneiss · Feb 23, 2009

Don't underestimate the intelligence and patience of your readers. You don't need to open up with a literal bang - just make the stories enticing, and the characters appealing, and the readers will stick on for the big battle later, when it makes more sense logically and chronologically.

Dale Emery · Feb 23, 2009

The Last Knight said:
The story, as it is, actually starts with something exciting, a team of four secret agents is dispatched to investigate some strange sightings (human, not alien).

Could you start with one of the sightings?

Dale

maestrowork · Feb 23, 2009

To be blunt, I hate that kind of beginning. It's a gimmick, and worst if it's trying to hide the fact that the story starts too slow. Sometimes it works, for example, in Fight Club when Palahnuik put the last scene in the first chapter -- but his structure has this "how did things get that way" feel to it, and it's a psychological story, so it works. There's a purpose.

So what is the purpose to put a fight scene in the middle of the book in the beginning? Just to have an exciting opening? That's a wrong intention.

Instead, why not just make your beginning more exciting? Why not start the story in media res and plunge your readers into suspense immediately? Why bring up a scene 100 pages in?

Jake Barnes · Feb 23, 2009

They did this in the Iron Man movie. Had the conflict at the beginning, a bunch of stuff blowing up, then backed up to introduce the character. Seemed to work okay. I wouldn't take a scene from the middle of the book, however.

timewaster · Feb 23, 2009

The Last Knight said:
Sure, thanks for asking that. I believe the beginning of my novel is not quite engaging, so I am thinking a fighting scene can serve to engage the reader. Then, when the story slows down with the details of how the mission begins and where it is going, the reader has some foretaste of what is going to happen soon.

Does that make sense?

Sure but if your novel isn't engaging maybe you have started the story in the wrong place - why don't you start with the fight scene in the middle and move on from there - ditching the boring bits entirely. it is quite common to start in the wrong place, if that's what you've done you might be better off starting the story in the more interesting place rather than just mucking wth your structure.

Julie Worth · Feb 23, 2009

The Last Knight said:
The story, as it is, actually starts with something exciting...I was wondering whether a fighting scene would bring some extra value to the first part of the story.

If you're happy with your opening, why bend the story logic just to open with a flashforward?

The Last Knight said:
I believe the beginning of my novel is not quite engaging...

It's exciting but not exciting enough? If that's true then you need to work on it rather than pasting a band aide over it.

nevada · Feb 23, 2009

Jake Barnes said:
They did this in the Iron Man movie. Had the conflict at the beginning, a bunch of stuff blowing up, then backed up to introduce the character. Seemed to work okay. I wouldn't take a scene from the middle of the book, however.

yes but the blowing up stuff was the inciting incident that got the story going so it was essential for the plot and character development. if we had started with tony in the cave we would have missed the character part that showed him showcasing jericho and his essential personality. since this is a story about personality transformation we needed to see the original personality as it was so that we could understand the transformation as it happened. It didn't start with iron man blowing up the bad guys that used stark industry technology and then flashed backwards to the beginning. that would have been horrible.

yes it was a minor flashback, but not to the scale of what the last knight is talking about. the iron man flashback was at the most an hour or two backward, not half a book.

MsGneiss · Feb 23, 2009

I don't understand why you have to do a flashback from the future. Even if you want a big fight scene to kick it off, right it in so that it synchronously fits at the beginning of the book. Personally, I really don't like the flashback-from-the-future tactic, and it's rarely done well.

Jake Barnes · Feb 23, 2009

Well, in Iron Man the flash forward basically starts on Day 2 and then the story ghoes back to Day 1. The important part in the re-start is not only to show TS is an asshole (we get that from the flash forward) but that he's brilliant and good with his hands, which explains how he can make an Iron Man suit in a cave with a can opener and a Swiss Army knife.

maestrowork · Feb 23, 2009

Also the flashforward of Iron Man is the inciting incident. It's the actual start of the story. The other, if you will, is more like flashback (ooh, he got the award but he didn't care, then flies to Afghanistan in a private jet and tons of women, blah blah). It's more character and set up, but they start the movie with the inciting incident.

In the OP's case, the random (well, not really random) fight scene in the middle of the book is NOT the inciting incident, but a major plot point somewhere in the middle. It would be like opening the Iron Man with the suited TS in the aerial combat fight scene. That would NOT work.

tehuti88 · Feb 24, 2009

Dale Emery said:
Could you start with one of the sightings?

Dale

I'd second this. I often start with "flashback" beginnings to my stories, but that's just it, they're flashbacks, things that already happened--in the past. (Though they ARE related to the story.)

Instead of flashing forward, I'd try to start with something that's already happened. Less jarring that way, as you don't have to fast-forward and rewind and then go forward again!

The Last Knight · Feb 24, 2009

Thank you

to everyone for their replies. I have decided to ditch the flashback altogether and spruce up the first chapter. If someone is interested in giving it a quick read, please send me private message. I should have something worth reading in a couple of weeks.

TLK

Enzo · Feb 24, 2009

I had the same thing in my current WIP.
A major action scene in the first chapter, than going back 'six weeks earlier,' and rehash the opening scene later in the story as seen by another character.
I also decided it didn't work, so now I'm going to leave it in the middle, and write a new opening scene.

seun · Feb 25, 2009

What's a flashback from the future? Is it like a fiction novel?

Doug Johnson · Feb 25, 2009

Redzilla said:
Why not just make the beginning of your novel engaging?

I agree. You might consider reading the first chapter of the firm which is about a kid sitting down for a job interview, but was compelling enough to help Grisham become a gazillionaire.

Puck38 · Feb 25, 2009

Starting with a fight scene is so 90's. The way it's done these days is with a sex scene. Pretty much anything I write, I start this way. Whether it's a short story, a novel, a speech, a letter to the editor of my local paper, or a cover letter for a new job, I always start it with sex. And none of that softcore stuff. You don't want to bore your reader with "caressing her milky white thighs." If you don't have the words "throbbing" and "Unnnnggggh!" somewhere in your first paragraph, then you might as well not write anything at all.

So my advice would be, ditch the fight scene, and get your reader intimately involved with the darker side of these four agents of yours. They've got a secret mission, alright. You want to start it off with a bang? Why not start it off with a gang-bang?

Beginning a suspense novel with a flashback from the future

The Last Knight

timewaster

present

The Last Knight

Danthia

Red-Green

KoalaKoalaKoala!

nevada

The Last Knight

nevada

Red-Green

KoalaKoalaKoala!

MsGneiss

Dale Emery

is way off topic

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Jake Barnes

timewaster

present

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

nevada

MsGneiss

Jake Barnes

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic

The Last Knight

Enzo

seun

Horror Man

Doug Johnson

Puck38