13 Page Detailed Outline. Two Books, or One? Craaap.

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

I'm ALMOST done with a detailed outline of a fantasy novel, and I've found that I can slice it into two distinct portions.

One portion has a dramatic conclusion and leads to all of my protagonists meeting. Cutting the story off here would leave a lot of loose ends.

Portion two also has a dramatic conclusion, but all the loose ends form a nice, neat bow. Readers starting at this point would be confused, unless I wrote in back-story.

Should I attempt to query these as two books, or as one? (Cut in two, they'll run fairly short for fantasy novels - but together, they'll bit a bit too long IMO.) Or should I let my imaginary and future agent deal with this?

KJuno · Feb 22, 2009

I'm a fan of novels that stand on their own. I don't mind series but I'm annoyed when authors can't give their books continuity in subsequent novels without making them independent nevertheless.

So, I'd say go for efficient writing and do it in one.

nevada · Feb 22, 2009

i say what we say to everyone who asks this. write it first. perfect it, then worry about querying. just make sure that if you write two books that they can stand on their own.

and 13 page outline? pffft.

suz brockmann writes outlines that are 50 pages a long and one author whose name i forget writes outlines that run 100 pages. personally i consider that a first draft.

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

nevada said:
i say what we say to everyone who asks this. write it first. perfect it, then worry about querying. just make sure that if you write two books that they can stand on their own.

and 13 page outline? pffft. suz brockmann writes outlines that are 50 pages a long and one author whose name i forget writes outlines that run 100 pages. personally i consider that a first draft.

I've written it. Twice, actually, thanks to a hard-drive failure. The outline is a running log of main points as I find them. It helped me trim out unessential scenes.

For all intents, constructions, and purposes, I *have* a finished novel. I'm trying to figure out how to present it.

nevada · Feb 22, 2009

ah sorry, misunderstood. apparently its a no no to query more than one book at a time so query the first, mentioning that it's part of a series but stands alone and that the second part is written. good luck.

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

nevada said:
ah sorry, misunderstood. apparently its a no no to query more than one book at a time so query the first, mentioning that it's part of a series but stands alone and that the second part is written. good luck.

So you think I should definitely chop it in half? (Well, roughly half.)

Mr. Anonymous · Feb 22, 2009

How long is it?

Claudia Gray · Feb 22, 2009

It all depends on how your outline-to-page count goes -- some people outline for 100 pages for one book, while others can put a three-book series on three pages or so. I'd say start work and then decide.

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

Mr. Anonymous said:
How long is it?

150,000 words. I have some stuff that probably won't survive another edit, though. (Of course, on the other hand, I have a plot point I need to *insert,* so... blah.)

nevada · Feb 22, 2009

oh i bet if you really tried you could cut it down to 120,000. thats upper limit for new fantasy writers isnt it? if you do make it two books, make sure it stands on its own and doesn't become cannon fodder because of too many loose ends.

Shweta · Feb 22, 2009

Do the other edit, see how long it is, figure it out then?

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

oh i bet if you really tried you could cut it down to 120,000. thats upper limit for new fantasy writers isnt it? if you do make it two books, make sure it stands on its own and doesn't become cannon fodder because of too many loose ends.

Maybe. I'll let you know.

Shweta said:
Do the other edit, see how long it is, figure it out then?

But that's work. I'm lazy.

If I can get it DOWN enough, one book. If I can get it UP enough, two?

Shweta · Feb 22, 2009

Bartholomew said:
But that's work. I'm lazy.

If I can get it DOWN enough, one book. If I can get it UP enough, two?

Try to get it down enough

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

Shweta said:
Try to get it down enough

Naw, up, up and away!

An excerpt:

Thinking furiously, Paula twiddled her thumbs. Gosh, those clock hands sure did move slowly! Twiddling, still twiddling, she breathed. For a moment, she thought someone had turned the handle of the bathroom stall door, but it turned out to be a false alarm. Too jump, Paula. Too jumpy.
Finally, sensation rippled through her lower bowel.

I'll save the gritty detail for those interested in the 15th volume.

mscelina · Feb 22, 2009

It sounds to me like you already know what you have to do. If it's at 150k and you're planning another edit, then you're already leaning toward a single book.

That would be my advice to you anyway.

Bartholomew · Feb 22, 2009

mscelina said:
It sounds to me like you already know what you have to do. If it's at 150k and you're planning another edit, then you're already leaning toward a single book.

That would be my advice to you anyway.

It's nice to hear other people say it, though.

Matera the Mad · Feb 23, 2009

I've cut at least 30,000 out of mine.

The long and laborious process has included adding as well as taking out. I'm still hacking at it.

MsGneiss · Feb 24, 2009

Bartholomew, I'd pitch it as one novel. Whenever you write something as one novel and then try to split it up, the break always seems unnatural. (Very rarely have I seen this done well, and usually, by established authors). Fantasy runs long, so that's alright then. When you sign with an agent, he/she will help you plan the best way to sell it, but I think, an agent will want to see the whole work with a pretty bow first.

MDei · Feb 24, 2009

Bartholomew said:
Naw, up, up and away!

An excerpt:

Thinking furiously, Paula twiddled her thumbs. Gosh, those clock hands sure did move slowly! Twiddling, still twiddling, she breathed. For a moment, she thought someone had turned the handle of the bathroom stall door, but it turned out to be a false alarm. Too jump, Paula. Too jumpy.
Finally, sensation rippled through her lower bowel.

I'll save the gritty detail for those interested in the 15th volume.

You can definately cut it. This is your first novel right? If it is, the trademark of it is wordiness. IMHO, you can cut out quit a few words, like Twiddling, still twiddling (we know what she's doing. You established that earlier). You may think you'll loose your voice, but you won't. I just went back through my work and ut out unnecessay words and my novel went from 95k to 86k words. That's almost ten thousand words and I added a scene, but I took out paragrahs of beautifully crafted sentences and it was a better story and the pace sped up a little.

That's just my two cent, but if the word count is that high, you can cut it to two books at 75k words as long as you tie the loose ends, but juding by what you said earlier, I'd so some serious editing and get to 120k. You'll start to enjoy cutting unnecessary stuff. I love to murder my darlings! :e2brows:

13 Page Detailed Outline. Two Books, or One? Craaap.

Bartholomew

Comic guy

KJuno

nevada

Bartholomew

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nevada

Bartholomew

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Mr. Anonymous

Just a guy with a pen & a delusion

Claudia Gray

Bartholomew

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nevada

Shweta

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Bartholomew

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Shweta

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Bartholomew

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mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

Bartholomew

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Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

MsGneiss

MDei

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