New here, and my experience with PA(no issues here, don't shoot me)

xXFireSpiritXx · Jan 22, 2009

Hi all,

I am new to the boards here. And I will tell you some might instantly hate me, some might like me. I really am a good person, and writing is my life. Merri Hiatt knows me from the PA boards even though she was removed from them. I am sure she has vocalized her opinion loud and clear here

I will say this in the beginning. I was not some disillusioned writer who signed with PA because it was easy route or because I had dreams of selling millions. I shopped my YA science fiction novel around to over 75 agents and 20 publishers. I ended up with five partial requests and 2 full requests. In the end none got accepted, but I did receive great feedback. So, they did enjoy what they read. Most stated, the reason for rejection was due to a full client list or their publication schedule was full through 2010.

I wrote my YA sci-fi novel Obscure Origins, which is the first book of four in the Guardian Chronicles, to share with whomever wanted to read it. I have no sky high expectations. If I reached 600 readers I would be happy. My book was officially released this week, and will gradually show up on other retailers sites for the next six weeks.

I will say this as well, Obscure was professionally copy edited and proofed by an amazing editor who has done over 150 novels. The book is probably one of the most flawless which has come from PA. Believe me, I have read plenty of them. I am not blind. Some of the books are craptastic

Promotion is the key to any success. There is only so much an author can do, I realize that. And with any other traditional publisher, their publicity department would take care of a lot of that. I know this industry, studied inside and out. I may be only 24, but I have learned a lot in my 2 years of querying different projects. Yet I still have managed to set up a 12 city book tour for this summer by myself, as well as planning on being an exhibitor at 3 book fairs in the fall.

Anyway, I am rambling now. Sorry. i just wanted to say my experience with PA has yet to turn ugly. It has been completely pleasant. And I really have met quite a few great writers among the many who wish they could write (look up Year of the Zebracorn--WOW is all I can say )

I do not expect huge fame, balloons, or whatever. But I still consider it a small stepping stone. I am planning on finishing the series with PA, unless another option arises. But I do have two other manuscripts near completion which I do plan to shop around traditionally once again this year.

I am a determined person and will get that big break one day. Even if I have to write 20 novels to get there. Hopefully, before I am 35.

Please do not email me letters full of links and information, I have read it all. Go to my site, be the judge, if you think my book sounds like literary puke, don't read it. Simple. As I said, I am a love me or hate me person

I do think you will find I can hold stimulating discussions though, and do look forward to making some friends here and discussing projects.

Thanks for your time. Please no hate. This is just offering my take on the situation. Thanks. Look forward to talking to some of you.
-Jason
Author of Obscure Origins
www.jasonrobertmacumber.webs.com

James D. Macdonald · Jan 22, 2009

Hi, Jason. Good to meet you.

I'm a science fiction author too; come visit up on the novels board. We talk a lot about writing and the nuts-and-bolts of publishing.

Haggis · Jan 22, 2009

Best of luck with your book, Jason.

xXFireSpiritXx · Jan 22, 2009

Thanks

Whatever happens will happen. No expectations, no disappointments. This is just the first hop for me.

Gillhoughly · Jan 22, 2009

Jason!

With all that going for you, you don't need PA. You've done all the right moves, otherwise.

PA is not doing you any favor by slapping a 19.95 price on a trade paperback.

Lulu would have worked far better, providing you with a reasonably priced book and none of the bad reputation.

Next time you have something new to submit, try The Knight Agency. They've got a good track record for YA sales!

narnia · Jan 22, 2009

Welcome Jason!

Best of luck with your novel. I follow the PA threads because I have two friends who were burnt by them, and I sincerely hope that your experience will turn out better.

Please do check out the rest of AW. I have learned so much since I found this place and will certainly credit many wonderful folks here when (I have high hopes

) my first novel is published.

I write paranormal suspense (a fancy way of saying "ghost stories"). Look forward to seeing you around here and there.

:Sun:

tlblack · Jan 22, 2009

Hi Jason and welcome to AW. There's plenty to get into around here, and I'm sure you've noticed it's a big place. Enjoy!

inkkognito · Jan 22, 2009

Welcome, Jason! You may have come to AW for the PA thread, but please stick around for the many other wonderful discussions. I tend to hang out mostly on the Freelance and Non-Fiction forums myself, but you'll find a place for just about every interest and genre. Judging by all the work and research you've done so far, you've got a bright future in writing ahead of you regardless of how it goes with PA. Please stick around and you'll learn a lot here. I know I do : )

Oh, and I'm a fellow Floridian...central for me.

merrihiatt · Jan 22, 2009

Welcome, Jason! :welcome:

The AW site is big and there's a ton of great information and wonderful people here. I hope you'll stick around and check things out. None of your posts will vanish into thin air and you'll be encouraged to share your opinion and experiences.

xXFireSpiritXx · Jan 22, 2009

Thank you everyone for the kind welcome! I look forward to getting to know all of you!

Marian Perera · Jan 23, 2009

Hi Jason, and welcome to the board! I hope your book does very well.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 23, 2009

Aside from six hundred sales of book one, and finishing the series with PA, what are your goals and what are the objective criteria for knowing you've achieved them?

Cyia · Jan 23, 2009

Heya Jason! Welcome! This is a good place for any writer -- no matter who they're published with. Got questions? Chances are someone here can answer them or at least point you to someone who can.

Christine N. · Jan 23, 2009

One question, Jason, and I'm asking honestly. On your tour, are these bookstores or other venues? Do you have to bring the books, or are the stores ordering them? If you're the one responsible for the books, that's actually a good thing with PA. They have a track record of not shipping books to stores in time for author signings.

You're not the first author to take a big tour pretty much on their own. JA Konrath does it with pretty much each book. I forget which publisher he's with, but he's with a major one. You might want to check out his site, he gives lots of great promotional advice.

You seem like you have a handle on it, and good luck. There are a few roadblocks PA has put in your way, and if you can get around them, more power to ya.

Marian Perera · Jan 23, 2009

JasonRobert said:
Go to my site, be the judge

By the way, Jason, I did go to your website, where there is a link to your blog, which is described as "A daily chronicle of Jason's writing routine and random thoughts".

However, the blog was started in November and has only been updated seven times. A blog is a great book-promotional tool if done well, so you might want to post on it a bit more - that's also a chance for readers to connect with you as a person.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 23, 2009

Heck, we even have a blogging board.

circlexranch · Jan 23, 2009

Hi Jason, excellent to see you here.

Yes, you have an excellent story premise, nicely done cover art and professionally edited. I agree with Gilloughly [a very successful professional novelist of 18+ years] that you can do better than PA.

With your saavy and stick-to-it-to-ed-ness, you could find an agent or create your own imprint and not give PA 9.00 - 10.00 per book for them doing nothing. Because that's what they've done for you . . . nothing.

My number one problem with PA is pricing. They leave the writer no room to work with to be competitive and pay for promotion.

You are welcome, welcome, welcome here and we hope you stay around and check out this thread as well as all the others in AW. Beware, we are addictive . . .

circlexranch · Jan 23, 2009

Jason:

This post is a lesson I did in 'book pricing math' in another thread.

It illustrates my main problem with PA. My family company has a series of trademarked characters for our toy/action figure product line and I am researching creating an imprint for short novels and short story collections based on this line. Trust me, PA does not figure into the equation.

Even some of the disgruntled former PA folks who have moved on insist that PA occupies a niche because they 'don't charge' for publishing. That is not true. There are honest options for getting your work out there.

I hope your book is the one that breaks out of the pack. However, I do follow your site and your blog (I am on your list of followers) and know you are working on book two of the series. Look around at ALL of your options before you push the PA button again, please.

DeadlyAccurate · Jan 23, 2009

JasonRobert said:
Hi all,

I am new to the boards here. And I will tell you some might instantly hate me, some might like me. I really am a good person, and writing is my life. Merri Hiatt knows me from the PA boards even though she was removed from them. I am sure she has vocalized her opinion loud and clear here

No one here hates you for going with PA.

I will say this in the beginning. I was not some disillusioned writer who signed with PA because it was easy route or because I had dreams of selling millions.

I'm curious what you saw in their business model that you found preferable to that of the other vanity presses or printers?

If I reached 600 readers I would be happy. My book was officially released this week, and will gradually show up on other retailers sites for the next six weeks.

Unfortunately, the only way you're going to reach 600 readers is if you buy the books yourself to sell. That's quite a cash outlay. That's not a reflection on you, your ability to promote, or your book; it's simply that PA doesn't want to sell books to anyone but you, and they put enough obstacles in your way to make sure it doesn't happen. You can promote your book until you have people salivating for it; until they're willing to jump through quite a few more hoops than most customers to buy it. And they'll still find it difficult to buy the book if you haven't bought it first.

Promotion is the key to any success. There is only so much an author can do, I realize that. And with any other traditional publisher, their publicity department would take care of a lot of that. I know this industry, studied inside and out. I may be only 24, but I have learned a lot in my 2 years of querying different projects. Yet I still have managed to set up a 12 city book tour for this summer by myself, as well as planning on being an exhibitionist at 3 book fairs in the fall.

Congratulations. You obviously have a lot of drive and ambition. I'll wish you the best of luck but sadly, it's not going to matter. Like I said, PA sets you up to fail. They actually put active effort into it.

I do not expect huge fame, balloons, or whatever. But I still consider it a small stepping stone. I am planning on finishing the series with PA, unless another option arises. But I do have two other manuscripts near completion which I do plan to shop around traditionally once again this year.

If you managed to get partial and full requests, you're close. Really. I had 5 partials and 2 fulls myself, when my agent made an offer. I'd queried 70 agents with that book.

Please, before you give PA any more of your books, wait. Wait until you reach those 600 readers. Good books are worth more than a dollar, and I think you should give your future titles a chance to succeed.

Marian Perera · Jan 23, 2009

DeadlyAccurate said:
No one here hates you for going with PA.

I'd like to add my voice to this.

I don't know why anyone would believe that we'd "instantly hate [them]" for choosing to publish with PA. Would you instantly hate someone for choosing to sign up with, say, Dorothy Deering? Believe me, you'd have to do a lot more than sign up with PA to make that much of a blip on my emotional radar.

I think one reason many PA authors believe we hate them is because the PAMB encourages them to believe there are no legitimate criticisms of PA (for instance, even if books are unedited or sell poorly, that's the writers' fault). So when they come across people criticizing PA, it becomes a personal, emotional thing - i.e. hate - rather than a genuine problem. And since PA is a family, a single tightly-knit unit, that means we must hate all the family members as well.

Just my take on it, though.

circlexranch · Jan 23, 2009

PA is not doing you any favor by slapping a 19.95 price on a trade paperback.

Actually, they are slapping $27.95 on it with a 'special' PA price of $21.95.

Gillhoughly and Uncle James, a question for the two of you. If you or someone else wanted to do a comic series or graphic novel of one of your books, what would have been your agent and/or publisher's reactions?

James D. Macdonald · Jan 23, 2009

circlexranch said:
Gillhoughly and Uncle James, a question for the two of you. If you or someone else wanted to do a comic series or graphic novel of one of your books, what would have been your agent and/or publisher's reactions?

1. "How much are you offering?"
2. "Do you need a copy of the book?"

As one of the characters in one of my earlier novels says, "It's all for sale."

In general, they want adaptations in comics, on TV, in movies, on lunchboxes, on cupcake wrappers....

Where did you think all that Harry Potter stuff came from (the action figures and the candies and the broomsticks and the trading cards, and the.... you get the idea). Do you think Scholastic said, when someone wanted to make a Harry Potter audiobook, "No, no, no!

tlblack · Jan 23, 2009

Queen of Swords said:
I'd like to add my voice to this.

I don't know why anyone would believe that we'd "instantly hate [them]" for choosing to publish with PA. Would you instantly hate someone for choosing to sign up with, say, Dorothy Deering? Believe me, you'd have to do a lot more than sign up with PA to make that much of a blip on my emotional radar.

I think one reason many PA authors believe we hate them is because the PAMB encourages them to believe there are no legitimate criticisms of PA (for instance, even if books are unedited or sell poorly, that's the writers' fault). So when they come across people criticizing PA, it becomes a personal, emotional thing - i.e. hate - rather than a genuine problem. And since PA is a family, a single tightly-knit unit, that means we must hate all the family members as well.

Just my take on it, though.

Telling someone who just got printed with PA who thinks they're not in print with a vanity press, although they are, and that there are better options out there, is sort of along the same lines as telling a new Mom that her baby would have been better looking with a different father. It's an emotional kick in the pants, and the first option the brain chooses is to go on the defensive.

I wish all PA authors luck. Being one of those who finally got out of their contract, I can tell them they will need every stroke of luck they can squeeze out of the next seven years. I don't hate anyone.

Gillhoughly · Jan 23, 2009

circlexranch said:
Actually, they are slapping $27.95 on it with a 'special' PA price of $21.95.

Ye gods! Are they out of their effing minds?????

Oh, wait, this is PA. Of course they are.

They could be crazy like a fox, though. The buyer sees 27.95 and freaks, then the 21.95 price doesn't look all that outrageous...

Until you compare it with a trade in the bookstore that's only 12.95.

Gillhoughly and Uncle James, a question for the two of you. If you or someone else wanted to do a comic series or graphic novel of one of your books, what would have been your agent and/or publisher's reactions?

How much is being offered?
Would you consider a script from the author, and how much would you pay?

As it happens a comic company did just that and one of my short stories is on their list. I wrote the script--my first and I loved it!--but they're really REALLY slow.

The comic was to have been out last summer. Still waiting. At least their check cleared!

My publisher's reaction doesn't matter since my agent reserved those rights, along with others on the contract.

My agent is always open to offers on my works.

Arkie · Jan 23, 2009

Well, they didn't do you any favors by putting a retail price of $27.95 on your book. I think the reason they put the price so high is they don't expect to sell many units and they want to realize the maximum for each.

When I started though their program four years past, the principals of the company were openly critical of science fiction writers, but they seem to have gotten over it, evolving into taking anything they could get to make a buck off the writer.

A word of caution: When you start your tour make sure you have books in hand. Do not count on PA delivering on a shipping schedule to a particular store, or you'll end up with egg on your face and no books to sell, and you can't run out in town to a local bookstore to find copies of your book. There won't be any. And of course their modus operandi is for the author to order his own book.

I'd like to be more encouraging, but I have been through the process; the ordering, the book signings, etc. And in the current economic climate, when the major bookstores are offering huge discounts, I'm afraid you're not going to move many units when going up against NY Times best selling authors at half the $27.95 price.

New here, and my experience with PA(no issues here, don't shoot me)

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