How far is too far?

CaroGirl · Jan 16, 2009

Last night I received a rejection from a literary publisher on the 50-page sample I sent them. It was a very generous personal rejection that praised my story telling ability and characterization, gave a few tips for improvement, and ended by suggesting I try to sell it as a YA novel. My 1st-person protagonist is 15 and the first 50 pages certainly sounds quite YA.

Later in the novel, however, there are some scenes I worry might not work for YA. There's a gang rape scene and a retelling by a character who gives herself an abortion using a coat hanger.

My question is, how far can I go in YA? As far as that? Even some of my betas were squeamish. I could try to moderate the scenes or I could send it out as is and wait to see if YA publishers would prefer that I moderate the scenes. What do you YA experts think?

alleycat · Jan 16, 2009

Personal opinion only: To me the main difference between YA and "adult fiction" is that the characters, situation, plot, and theme are of particular interest to the YA age group rather than it being for less mature readers.

Yes, for some it would be too disturbing, whether they're 17 or 70 (probably more so if they're 70).

I'm assuming that neither the rape nor the abortion scene are done in a overly graphic style.

Chanelley · Jan 16, 2009

The coat hanger one is too disturbing to be YA. If you need to keep it in, mention it in passing and don't describe it. Just reading what you wrote made me feel sick! Imagine reading about that in detail!
In terms of the gang rape, I think you could still keep that in as long as you don't mention body parts, vulgar terms, and focus on how your character is feeling instead of description of the actual event.

Danthia · Jan 16, 2009

It all depends in how you handle it. There are plenty of YA books that deal with horrible things. Go read "Living Dead Girl" "13 Reasons Why" "Speak."

YA doesn't get graphic, but bad things happen. It's fuzzed over so the details aren't in your face.

And if the book is good, the agent can decide after she reads the full how to market it. Having a potential YA just means you have more options for agents and publishers

CaroGirl · Jan 16, 2009

Thanks all. IMO, none of it is particularly graphic. The rape is moderate. The reader knows what's going on but it's not as explicit as it could be. The abortion thing is only told through dialogue and alluded to by the state of the room afterwards (bloody sheets). It's the idea that's disturbing (I think) not the telling of it.

Blind Writer · Jan 16, 2009

Personally, I think you could sell it as edgy YA. It isn't as if teenagers don't understand what's going on with the coat hanger or the gang rape. Check out the Edgy YA thread and then make up your mind based on that.

Shady Lane · Jan 16, 2009

Whatever you can do in terms of gore/horror/violence/whatever in a mainstream adult book, you can do in a YA book.

alleycat is absolutely right. The only difference between adult books and young adult books is that they focus on different subsets of society--adults or teenagers--and contain themes relevant to those subsets. Abortion and rape are just as relevant (if not more so) to teenagers as to adults.

It doesn't sound like you're being gratuitous here, so I don't think it's a problem at all.

bethany · Jan 16, 2009

Right, I would probably write the coat hanger scene very carefully and then see how much detal this story really needs. But then, I would do that with any scene in any book, to some extent.

Of course it will still freak some people out, but that's the name of the game. Perhaps I should go update the Edgy thread with responses to Handcuffs since it's been out for 1 month now. I think I'll do that! (soon)

Doug Johnson · Jan 16, 2009

CaroGirl said:
Thanks all. IMO, none of it is particularly graphic.

Every time I've rewritten to make my betas happier, I've ended up with - in my opinion - a better book.

caromora · Jan 16, 2009

I agree with Shady. Anything that can happen in an adult book can also happen in YA. If your book sells, your editor will tell you if you need to pull back on certain scenes.

Danalynn · Jan 20, 2009

It sounds like it could definitely pass for YA. I like your idea of not changing anything, submit it as is, and then see if they tell you to change anything. Odds are, it's not too much for YA, at least from your descriptions.

jmascia · Jan 20, 2009

You can pass it as a YA. But I have to agree with Chanelly. The coat hanger might be a little much. I would suggest doing as little detail with that scene as possible.

Leila · Jan 20, 2009

I think you should write it as you intended to, without holding back. Just do what you feel the story calls for, coat hangers or no coat hangers. There is plenty of disturbing stuff that happens in YA, trust me. As others have said, the editor will tell you if it needs to be rewritten. It sounds like the abortion happens offstage anyway, which I think would make it less likely to be problematic.

Zoombie · Jan 21, 2009

"I say your novel goes too far!"

"Yes, well I say it does not go too far enough!"

In other words that are not an obscure reference to Futurama: Write it as you see it. Edit later.

I've heard of some ffed up shit in YA...why not a coat hanger abortion?

Wasn't there one of those in Dirty Dancing?

That's YA...ish...I think...

Robert Vernon · Mar 3, 2009

CaroGirl said:
Last night I received a rejection from a literary publisher on the 50-page sample I sent them. It was a very generous personal rejection that praised my story telling ability and characterization, gave a few tips for improvement, and ended by suggesting I try to sell it as a YA novel. My 1st-person protagonist is 15 and the first 50 pages certainly sounds quite YA.

Later in the novel, however, there are some scenes I worry might not work for YA. There's a gang rape scene and a retelling by a character who gives herself an abortion using a coat hanger.

My question is, how far can I go in YA? As far as that? Even some of my betas were squeamish. I could try to moderate the scenes or I could send it out as is and wait to see if YA publishers would prefer that I moderate the scenes. What do you YA experts think?

You're funny.

stonefly

kaitlin008 · Mar 3, 2009

I don't really think YA readers get any more traumatized by details like yours than adult readers do. If the entire story was very tame up until you described the abortion, then you might have trouble because the reader wouldn't be expecting something so disturbing, but I get the impression that's not the case for you. YA audiences can take a lot - teenagers aren't naive.

Rarri · Mar 3, 2009

CaroGirl said:
Thanks all. IMO, none of it is particularly graphic. The rape is moderate. The reader knows what's going on but it's not as explicit as it could be. The abortion thing is only told through dialogue and alluded to by the state of the room afterwards (bloody sheets). It's the idea that's disturbing (I think) not the telling of it.

I wouldn't fret about the idea of a coat hanger abortion being disturbing, it's something that's well known as a 'method' used in desperate situations and frequently comes up in material discussing abortions (particularly 'back street') abortions. Considering it's a topic that's often discussed in schools (in various subjects), it may be new to a reader but not an unknown concept, if that makes sense.

Rape and gang rape aren't unknown in YA either. To be honest, it's about how you write it; there are rape scenes in adult fiction which are, frankly, foul and other incidents in adult fiction which are handled really well and are part of a fantastic read; this applies to YA too.

~grace~ · Mar 3, 2009

why did this thread suddenly get woken up again? anyhoo.

There's a coat hanger scene in Malcolm X's autobiography (well, sorta--not explicitly) and I read that pretty young and remained untraumatized. I mean, it's an "adult" book but isn't it assigned in high schools sometimes? (*didn't go to high school, does not know these things*)

so basically if you handle it right you can do anything. (<--grace's general theory of writing)

Glenakin · Mar 3, 2009

CaroGirl said:
Thanks all. IMO, none of it is particularly graphic. The rape is moderate. The reader knows what's going on but it's not as explicit as it could be. The abortion thing is only told through dialogue and alluded to by the state of the room afterwards (bloody sheets). It's the idea that's disturbing (I think) not the telling of it.

Maybe the rejections aren't really about how edgy it is; maybe it's about how good the story is. Is it just edgy for edgy's sake or is there something juicy to back it up?

How far is too far?

CaroGirl

Living the dream

alleycat

Still around

Chanelley

Danthia

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Blind Writer

YA/MG Author

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

bethany

:)

Doug Johnson

caromora

Still alive. Kind of.

Danalynn

NEVER give up!!!!

jmascia

Leila

bookshop girl

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Robert Vernon

kaitlin008

Seeing newness all the time

Rarri

~grace~

the good old days

Glenakin