Number of Characters--How many can YOU handle?

Makai_Lightning · Jan 8, 2009

So it's been pointed out to me--and for the most part I already suspected as much--that I tend to run around with a lot of characters.

One of my current projects is pretty limited in number of characters, another has more than I've ever used.

I do fuse characters that can be fused, or cut out otherwise useless ones, but I still tend to have a lot. But then, I wondered how many was actually a lot and what was considered "normal."

Some people can handle writing a ton of characters and keep them distint, where for others that's harder. I'm not sure which I would be, only that I do have a tendency to write a lot in and sort it all out. I think I had 34 for one, and 15 for another (that's including minor characters, and 15 is just a guess, since I haven't gotten around to writing all the parts the characters might or might not be in yet--I tend to create characters as I go if one I have doesn't fit, then mold them together afterward. Some get subplots, and I try to make them worth their time showing up). One of my WIPs is probably going to end up with 70 if I'm not careful.

What occurs to me is there's certain ways the characters are handles that makes a book more able to handle a lot of characters. I personally hate going through character lists at the front or back of books. I feel like if I can't dicern from the text who the characters are, there's something wrong with it and it's not my job to do the extra work to figure it out. I don't mind them if they're just for reference, in case I want to remind myself of minor details, but the characters themselves should be distinct.

In my personal opinion, besides character distinctness, the proximity of characters to each other in scenes, the sorts of scenes they regularly appear in, and what their purpose is will mostly define whether or not it's working to have as many characters as a book does --however many that may be.

Different books may have different capacities for characters, but I was simply wondering at the idea.

So, basically;
What is it that you think that allows a book to contain so many (or so few) characters, and what provides the character distinction?
To you, personally, how many is too much or not enough?
What is generally considered a lot of characters for any type of book?

gothicangel · Jan 8, 2009

I think it depends on the story. A crime novel requires more than a romance, for example.

I have three major characters and six minor characters.

Linda Adams · Jan 8, 2009

I like using lots of characters myself. If I've counted right, my current project has a main character, three more major characters, four secondary characters, three bad guys, and at least six minor characters. The WIP has a thriller-style complex storyline, which requires their presence. at the moment, I'm writing a scene with seven characters in it.

What is it that you think that allows a book to contain so many (or so few) characters, and what provides the character distinction?

Genre and storyline. You're never going to see 30 characters in a romance novel. But you might see 100 in a thriller (though I'll admit when I saw a list of characters at the beginning of that book, I sent it back to the library).

To you, personally, how many is too much or not enough?

Depends on the story, and how the writer carries them off. I've read thrillers with huge casts that I didn't have any problems with because they were involved in the story in such a way I knew who was who. But I've seen some mysteries with maybe seven to ten characters, and when the bad guy was revealed, my first reaction was 'Who is that?"

What is generally considered a lot of characters for any type of book?

When the reader feels like they need a scorecard. Even with a huge cast of chracters, if the writer does it right, the reader shouldn't have trouble following the characters.

Stunted · Jan 8, 2009

In my opinion, a lot of characters creates a kind of reality, while only a few reenforces silly fantasy world.

Now, as much as most of us hate JK Rowling, she does a great job having a lot of easily differentiable characters. I think her trick is for every character to do something crazy and memorable the second they show up, and they can all be boiled down to a sentence or two. Mean teacher. Asshole. Crazy teacher. That fat kid...

Exir · Jan 8, 2009

Now, as much as most of us hate JK Rowling

Er... I think JK Rowling is actually relatively well-received in writerly circles... You'd find lots of JKR fans around here (like me

)

gothicangel · Jan 8, 2009

Never read a HP book or seen one of the films - don't want to either.

Why? Don't like the writing.

Wiskel · Jan 8, 2009

I read a lot of fantasy and i'm a big fan of George RR Martin. Fantasy tends to have large scale as well as personal conflict. Politics and wars often need quite a few characters on each side. He uses lots of POV characters but manages to define his MCs very well, in my opinion. Long character lists don't put me off a book.

I also like the idea that being alive at the start of a chapter is no guarantee of being alive at the end of it, so he sometimes passes the torch from one character to another, meaning both have to be fairly well devleoped.

I'm trying to use a similar style myself so I'm juggling quite a few, and while the character list might grow longer, the number of active characters is likely to stay under ten at any given time.

Craig

Danthia · Jan 8, 2009

Clarity is a big issue. When a writer does their job, you can tell who you're supposed to pay attention to and who is a throwaway character. I don't mind walk ons since I know I don't have to remember them. The trouble comes when a walk on is given a lot of clues that they're important, such as extra description, or the protag focusing too much in them or some aspect of them. All the writerly devices that say "remember this person." If it's clear you don't have to remember them, then you can get away with more.

Anything over three characters in one scene tends to get problematic just due to logistics. I've found my beta readers start to get confused around five or six in one scene at a time.

The other thing to ask yourself is why you need so many characters. Too many could be an indication that the story is more exploring a premise or situation than the traditional "protag has a problem, protag tries to overcome problem" structure.

Charlie Horse · Jan 8, 2009

gothicangel said:
Never read a HP book or seen one of the films - don't want to either.

Why? Don't like the writing.

Not to derail this thread, but how do you know you don't like the writing if you've never read one of her books?

As to the question at hand: Lots of characters are fine as long as they are distinct and serve a purpose. Obvious answer I guess, but I've read stuff where there were so many characters that all seemed to run in together so much so that it was hard to keep them straight. In the end I never really understood what the purpose for most of them were.

Exir · Jan 8, 2009

I personally favor small casts, because I like to keep my plots short, simple and sweet. Large casts often result in more complicated and "crafty" plots, which is good in its own right, but I'm just not as good at writing them.

gothicangel · Jan 8, 2009

Before I commit myself to buying/reading a book I'll read the first chapter. I didn't like the writing - far too wordy.

More of an Ernest Hemingway gal (or Angela Carter to the other extreme!)

tehuti88 · Jan 8, 2009

Makai_Lightning said:
What is it that you think that allows a book to contain so many (or so few) characters, and what provides the character distinction?
To you, personally, how many is too much or not enough?
What is generally considered a lot of characters for any type of book?

I'm the type who lurves tons of characters. If handled right. The book I'm currently reading likes to introduce characters, spend enough time developing them as individuals, then kill them off within a few chapters of their introduction, and it really irks me. If the writer's not going to keep the characters around that long, then don't name them or give them interesting personalities or even bother introducing them in the first place. It's okay now and then, but this writer seems to love doing it, so they seem extraneous. Ugh.

Anyway, to answer the questions--I think if a writer develops the characters well enough, AND the characters have a distinctive purpose within the story, that's what determines if a lot of them can belong in one work. "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" did this pretty well. There were slews of characters in that, major and minor, but the writer, IMO, did such a good job making each of them a REAL CHARACTER that I was never confused by them all (even the ones with similar names--John Uskglass, John Segundus, Jonathan Strange). They struck me as real people, individuals, easily distinctive from each other and not hard to keep track of.

I do hope I'm the same way with characters in my work, since, being a writer of very long serials, I have slews of characters.

To me there is no such thing as too many, unless the writer fails to either distinguish their own characters or to provide ample reason for them being there in the first place (the latter refers to the writer whose work irked me earlier). Too few? I prefer lots of characters, but granted, in a shorter story you probably won't have many, maybe even just one. It depends. There's no such thing as too many or two few characters, just too many or too few for a particular STORY.

I couldn't say what's considered "a lot" of characters because it's so subjective to me that, if there were a hundred characters, I wouldn't even notice it's a lot if the writer did a good job with them. I'd only think it's a lot of characters for one book if the writer did a LOUSY job with them.

djf881 · Jan 8, 2009

gothicangel said:
Never read a HP book or seen one of the films - don't want to either.

Why? Don't like the writing.

I tend to get really annoyed with fantasy authors who make up a lot of words and give characters names that are basically adjectives (Do you think Draco Malfoy is going to be an antagonist for our character? Duh). If I ever write a fantasy novel, I am naming my hero Maleficus Blackheart.

The other main objection that can be lodged against "Harry Potter" is that after book 4, Rowling had carte blanche to do whatever she wanted and her books bloated up. You could lodge the same objection against Stephen King.

But Rowling is very good at having interesting threads throughout the story that make it very hard to put down. She also tends not to string words together in a way that makes my teeth grind together. I tried to read a James Patterson novel and his use of language was so poor that I could not continue reading the book.

Rowling is also worth taking a look at for the way she creates a setting, and the way she structures her plots. I also like the way she takes a scenario that is straight wish-fulfillment fantasy ("Guess what, Harry? You're very special! Also, you're magic! And famous! And you're the new star quarterback of our flying football team!") and she twists it into a sort of nightmare.

ChaosTitan · Jan 8, 2009

It doesn't take a lot of skill to create a cast of fifty characters, but it does take skill to make each one different from the others. I don't care if a book has five characters, or fifty, as long as I can keep them straight.

Lord of the Rings has a huge main cast, but each of them is unique in their own way. Theoden and Denethor are both kings, sure, but you'd never mistake one for the other. The four hobbits have distinct personalities. The huge cast works.

Now if I'm reading a novel with five protagonists and their names are Joe, Bill, Jack, Pat, and Carl, I may have a problem keeping them straight. Five similar names, all too close in number of letters. Joseph, Billy, Jack, Patrick, and Carlson change up the pattern a bit. Not that they don't still need unique personalities, but names are just as important when creating the character.

gothicangel · Jan 8, 2009

djf881 said:
I tend to get really annoyed with fantasy authors who make up a lot of words and give characters names that are basically adjectives (Do you think Draco Malfoy is going to be an antagonist for our character? Duh). If I ever write a fantasy novel, I am naming my hero Maleficus Blackheart.

The other main objection that can be lodged against "Harry Potter" is that after book 4, Rowling had carte blanche to do whatever she wanted and her books bloated up. You could lodge the same objection against Stephen King.

But Rowling is very good at having interesting threads throughout the story that make it very hard to put down. She also tends not to string words together in a way that makes my teeth grind together. I tried to read a James Patterson novel and his use of language was so poor that I could not continue reading the book.

Rowling is also worth taking a look at for the way she creates a setting, and the way she structures her plots. I also like the way she takes a scenario that is straight wish-fulfillment fantasy ("Guess what, Harry? You're very special! Also, you're magic! And famous! And you're the new star quarterback of our flying football team!") and she twists it into a sort of nightmare.

Sorry, I don't ever see it happening; alongside Gothic, literary linguistics is in area of interest (you don't want me dissecting JKR!)

ccarver30 · Jan 8, 2009

My current WIP has 2 main characters and maybe 8 in total!

scarletpeaches · Jan 8, 2009

The WIP I'm working on at the moment has five main characters, and about the same number of secondary characters. There are many more people in the novel, but they don't have full names or personalities because they're there for colour, rather than texture.

At least one of my main characters appears in every scene; often two of them. The secondary characters appear in one or two scenes each, but still have parts to play in moving the main storyline along.

ccarver30 · Jan 8, 2009

If I had 70, I think I would jump off the nearest cliff.
It would be hard to see the value in EVERY character's existence.

scarletpeaches · Jan 8, 2009

I'm already seeing characters I'm going to have to bump off before the second draft.

bison · Jan 8, 2009

Consider character dynamics, their interaction with one anohter.
If you have two, you have a dynamic of two (a with b and b with a)
If you have three, you have a dynamic of Nine (a with b,c; b with a,c; c with a,b.
Add a fourth and it goes to to SIXTEEN! Add more and do the math.
Dynamics spawns the dialogue and plot movement.
Only a very talented writer can handle the larger numbers, it's hard to do.
Personaly, I think Three main and around six minor is a load!

Topaz044 · Jan 8, 2009

Having 70 characters suggests to me, and I could easily be wrong, that unless you plan on writing a 200,000 word manuscript, the plot itself is a little dull and requires someone new (I guess every chapter) to spice it up. The same handful of characters, no matter what genre, is supposed to react to different circumstances that revolve around them. If you are wanting to constantly introducing new characters, that tells me there isn't a lot happening with the plot at the time to keep them occupied.

Speaking personally, I had a novella with only two major characters and two minor characters in it, and a sci-fi novel with six major characters and about four minor characters.

maestrowork · Jan 8, 2009

I don't count characters... They're there because they're there and they're necessary to the story. Some are walk-on extras, some minor, some secondary and some major/main. I have a large cast, but I do keep my major/secondary characters to a manageable number (probably under 10).

Prawn · Jan 8, 2009

I think you can have lots of characters, just don't have lots of POVs. If you have 20 well written characters, people will follow you, but being in 20 different people's heads in the same book is much harder to do well, and is probably a mistake.

foonting · Jan 8, 2009

23 main characters in my fantasy WIP.....plus two or three non speaking parts! Probably only half of these are completely fleshed out with proper back stories, the others are mainly there for plot advancement/set dressing.

As an aside on the JKR/HP thing, I have always had a thing against characters with ridiculous names....or the gratuitous 'Dark lords' popping up at every twist and turn....however JKR's appealingly quirky plot lines and strong core characters kept me reading......even through the later word processor dihorea books. I contented myself with one major saving grace, that her elves never possessed bell clear voices or were impossibly beautiful (irritating gits).

I could suggest a fascinating exercise for all of you who want to pointlessly waste your time...Go through a duplicate copy of your favourite manuscript and use find and replace to change all your caracter names to such JKR-esque ones as Aliby Bumbletrousers, Psyco Earlobes Glum, or Dragonbreath Notparticularlyniceperson. I nearly became incontinent with myrth after trying that!

scarletpeaches · Jan 8, 2009

*does search/replace and changes her MMC's name to Ivarbiggun Longscrotum*

Number of Characters--How many can YOU handle?

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