Cursing

kimb68 · Oct 21, 2008

I have a fierce potty mouth, but my hero doesn't curse. The problem is, I'm so desensitized, I'm not sure what counts as a curse these days.

So, I'm asking the non-swear-word-using folks out there, which of the following (if any) would you find unacceptably coarse:

Heck
Damn
Hell
Screw
Darn
Bloody
Freaking
Flaming

Similarly, if I'm missing any good non-curse epithets, please suggest them. (They have to be good ones! No "sweet Jesus in a pie shell" or "great googlymoogly"s, if you don't mind. I'm perfectly capable of making those up myself. Oh, and they need to work in the U.S.)

FTL · Oct 21, 2008

I was watchin' some Cagney on TCM tonight.

It's funny when he calls people "smack offs"

Oberon · Oct 21, 2008

Well golly gee, there oughta be more than that. shucks, if I could get this goldurned brain workin' I could think of a few. Leapin' lizards! That's Orphan Annie. I know, it sucks. Really too blamed old-fashioned. Shoot! That's one. Gee whiz. Sounds like 1930 don't it? Balls! For cryin' out loud. Bastard, son of a bitch, or if you prefer, son of a gun. Dang. Spit! Jeez, jeepers, sheesh. Holy smoke or mackerel or whatever, Batman.

I don't think bloody works in the U.S. And can anyone define spalpeen for me? Good luck with your cursing. Curses! Foiled again! Another oldie.

EriRae · Oct 21, 2008

I use "bloody" all the time, here in the states. I blame Buffy and my British brother-in-law.

I'm also too desensitized to advise on this.

Stunted · Oct 21, 2008

Drat. It doesn't have much force behind it, but it's pretty cute.

Phoebe H · Oct 22, 2008

Well, I'm one of those people who only curses while driving or playing video games. "Drats" is actually part of my vocabulary. And that was even before having kids. So I'll wade into it.

So much depends on era, age of character, and region.

A lot of places, you wouldn't want to use Hell.
Screw is relatively inoffensive, but probably wouldn't be used by someone who doesn't curse, because of it's meaning.
You didn't mention "sucks" but that's another one that is now ubiquitous, but that a lot of people avoid, so you'd want to watch out for it. (Though that's more generational than anything. Under 30 and it's probably okay.)

The others you listed should be fine.

Terms I've either used, or heard other people use regularly:
Bastages
What in the Sam Hill?
Dangit
Shoot
S-O-B
H-E-double toothpicks
Fudge

and the one I tried to start, but never caught on: Crump!

frisco · Oct 22, 2008

I think my problem is I have too many curses words in my latest manuscript. I think I have about 50 F bombs ( or derivates of the F bomb) in it and am now a bit concerned that publishers will turn it down because of the profanity.

I should have substituted a few great googlymoogly's instead.

Calamity_Jones · Oct 22, 2008

I use bloody, I am British, after all... But it is a problem... What swear words to use... I have one of my character saying "criminy" at one point

But then, I say that too, on occasion.

Most people swear constantly these days, so realistic dialogue would include lots of foul language. But reading foul language in a book, unless done exceedingly well, seems... well... lame.

IceCreamEmpress · Oct 22, 2008

frisco said:
I think my problem is I have too many curses words in my latest manuscript. I think I have about 50 F bombs ( or derivates of the F bomb) in it and am now a bit concerned that publishers will turn it down because of the profanity.

Not likely unless you're trying to sell to the Christian market, or if it's a book for middle-grade or younger readers. Don't worry about it.

Phaeal · Oct 22, 2008

In my current WIP, my teen characters use the "F" and "Sh" bombs under great pressure, but not incessantly, because that bores me. Yeah, unrealistic, I know.

Mostly I use the less explosive "Damn," "Hell," "Sucks," and "Crap." But I expect even these would offend some markets. Oh well.

"Great googly-mooglies" rocks!

Alpha Echo · Oct 22, 2008

shoot
SOB
H-E-double hockey sticks
son of a gun
darnit
friggin'

Vandal · Oct 22, 2008

beyotch
frack (or frackin')

tehuti88 · Oct 22, 2008

kimb68 said:
I have a fierce potty mouth, but my hero doesn't curse. The problem is, I'm so desensitized, I'm not sure what counts as a curse these days.

So, I'm asking the non-swear-word-using folks out there, which of the following (if any) would you find unacceptably coarse:

Heck
Damn
Hell
Screw
Darn
Bloody
Freaking
Flaming

Similarly, if I'm missing any good non-curse epithets, please suggest them. (They have to be good ones! No "sweet Jesus in a pie shell" or "great googlymoogly"s, if you don't mind. I'm perfectly capable of making those up myself. Oh, and they need to work in the U.S.)

I'm a complete non-curser in real life. I don't even say "hell" or "damn," not even when it's part of a title (like "Damn Yankees" or "Hellraiser"). I'm tempted to use the words "bitch" and "piss" a lot but never do. I find the other words on your list acceptable, though I don't use things like "freaking" or "flaming" or "bloody."

I do say "frigging" a lot, even though the original meaning is rather coarse; it just seems tame enough to me.

Then there are the lesser but kind of offensive (in terms of children, I believe) terms such as crap, poop, fart, turd, butt(head), booger, snot(head), etc.

I often tend to just make up weird things as the mood strikes. Lately I say "crudstick" and "crudbucket" a lot, for example. I imagine that when my cat is disappointed, he says things like, "Poop on a stick!"

I can't say any of this makes for fantastic cursing (my characters make plentiful use of the lesser curses), but that's just me.

ETA:

Phoebe H said:
Screw is relatively inoffensive, but probably wouldn't be used by someone who doesn't curse, because of it's meaning.

See my above comment on the word "frigging." As a total non-swearer (I don't even say "bastard" when referring to a literal bastard!), I find "screw" acceptable as a tame replacement for the F word, just as with the word "frigging" (which as I said had a very uncouth meaning in Victorian times, it seems).

Nakhlasmoke · Oct 22, 2008

IceCreamEmpress said:
Not likely unless you're trying to sell to the Christian market, or if it's a book for middle-grade or younger readers. Don't worry about it.

My YA has about 70 f-bombs in it...no one has said anything yet. (Granted, my agent hasn't started subbing yet, so we'll see what editors say) Shady Lane's Break (YA most definitely) is also heavy on the F, and that's coming out with Simon Pulse (I think)

eta: I should add - both books are for the older YA audience, and not for the tweens group

Clair Dickson · Oct 22, 2008

Dagnabbit!
I use froot loops when I'm in a place (like work/school) where I should use the F-word. And tailfeathers for ass.

There are some people who find hell and damn bad (they are curses). I would never say them, for example, in the classes I teach. My husband rarely says even crap. He often uses crud. (I don't know how me married me and my foul, vulgar, crass mouth!) But, also something to note, people who don't swear may not have many places where the less-equivalents come up.

Ex. I might say: "I dropped the damn book on my toe!" (More like f-ing, but anyway ;-)
Hubby just says: "I dropped the book on my toe!" If he's really upset, he'll say "Dammit, dammit, dammit." Then no other swear words in the following explanation.

Carmy · Oct 22, 2008

Bloody and dammit / damnit appear frequently in one story. There is also a "bu**er off" somewhere around.

DeleyanLee · Oct 22, 2008

Rats!
Nuts!
Oh my stars!
Cherry pits! (a favorite of one of my nurses)

My favorites: God--bless America! (instead of damnation)
Son of a bah-chi (quasi-phoentic since I just say it instead of spell it out)

shadrake · Oct 22, 2008

'Coarseness' depends on the context where they are used. "Screw you" and "screw me" mean different things. Are they trying to be funny when they say it or expressing frustration or shock? Is it an insult or just the way they speak every day?

DeleyanLee · Oct 22, 2008

Oh, and my recent catch-phrase: "sucks dirty duck butt"

Bufty · Oct 22, 2008

Aiming for believable dialogue is far better than trying for 'realistic'.

Littering work with swear words in an attempt to achieve realism is wholly self-defeating. As you say, it would eventually come across as banal.

Calamity_Jones said:
I use bloody, I am British, after all... But it is a problem... What swear words to use... I have one of my character saying "criminy" at one point

But then, I say that too, on occasion.

Most people swear constantly these days, so realistic dialogue would include lots of foul language. But reading foul language in a book, unless done exceedingly well, seems... well... lame.

NeuroFizz · Oct 22, 2008

If there will be numerous exclamations of this nature, I find it way more annoying than an equal number of curse words, particularly if the writer tries to get in a maximum number of curse-alternatives. Just go with a couple of signature exclamations and leave it at that. On the other hand, a good "cusser" may well take permutations as a challenge. It just doesn't have the same effect if a non-cusser tries to maximize the exclamatory vocabulary.

Also, if you have a non-cusser, save that one, major curse word for a really tense situation and have the character let it out with gusto--it will immediately convey the gravity of the situation. In this way, curse words (and non-curse words) can become more than speech mannerisms. They can be tools of the writer.

Beach Bunny · Oct 22, 2008

Desensitized or not, surely there are situations in life where one censors their speech? I have a seriously foul potty-mouth, but when I am around my Uncle I watch my languange and substitute clean words for the bad ones. So:
freaking, frigging, flipping, etc. for the f word
sugar, stuff, stuffing, etc for the s word
son of a biscuit eater
witch instead of bitch
Jiminy Christmas instead of JC
Well, you get the idea.

I'd be careful about using British slang if you're an american. You might be saying something more foul than the word you're subbing it for.

narnia · Oct 22, 2008

My MC uses crap and zilch.

Here's a (hopefully related) question for the gang:

My MC also say "Oh my God" once in awhile, probably because I do. Do you think some may find this objectionable? Would an agent/editor point that out and suggest alternatives?

It's the little things that can be a pain sometimes ... sigh.

Thanks!

Nakhlasmoke · Oct 22, 2008

If your character says Oh my god, then that's what they say.

Pandering to other people's issues isn't going to make your character more believable

mrockwell · Oct 22, 2008

Well, owing to the popularity of Spongebob, many parents I know say, "tartar sauce."

One yardstick I use is if I'd punish my kids for saying a word -- so, on your original list, hell, damn and screw would probably merit a reprimand.

-- Marcy

Cursing

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