The Dark Knight Returns - Batman III

GreenFriend · Aug 27, 2008

I don't know if that's the title but if it was, I want a live action shot of Batman on the power line with the lightning.

Who should be the villains for the new film?

Batman Begins was a lesson to Bruce that one man can change the world, The Dark Knight tackles the consequences of the Batman in Gotham and I hope the third involves teaching Batman that losing everything can make not just Batman but the whole of Gotham better.

I love the Dark Knight's deep subject matter and want to see them take it a step further. Gotham should be in utter chaos both within and without. The Joker might have opened doorways; everyone is grabbing a mask and cool name and trying to cause mass hysteria. The main villain I'd like to see is Nolan's take of Firefly, a man so enamored by fire he see visions in the flames beckoning him to burn the city to the ground. It's so psychological, I'd love to see it.
The within corruption could be the breaking of the mob, the tying up of Harvey Dent's storyline and the inclusion of a new threat, Catwoman.

People seem to dislike having two villains since Spider-Man 3, and with the Joker, we don't really need them. But villains are not a representation of the hero, they are the personification to the events and sociology of the world.
Catwoman, if done in small doses could push the love story (though I'd rather Bruce be "impotent," but that's another thread), Catwoman is the polar opposite of Batman in the ways the Joker couldn't be.

What would you like to see in the thrid of the Batman franchise?

maestrowork · Aug 28, 2008

Rumors has it that Nolan wants Cher (62) to play an older Catwoman, instead of Angelina Jolie as first rumored...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4669584a1860.html

childeroland · Aug 28, 2008

BOF is insisting the Cher rumor is bogus. According to Chuck Roven, Nolan is on vacation and hasn't decided whether or not to do a third Batman, though WB has an offer on the table.

Firefly seems a little similar to Nolan's Joker ("Everything burns") as does Riddler, IMHO. I'd love to see a villain never used on the big screen before, like Hush, Deadshot, Black Mask, or Holiday Killer, though at least the latter may have also influenced Nolan's Clown Prince. I'd also like Red Claw, though that's probably too similar to the League of Shadows.

DeleyanLee · Aug 28, 2008

GreenFriend said:
People seem to dislike having two villains since Spider-Man 3, and with the Joker, we don't really need them.

Actually, it was the second Michael Keaton Batman movie that soured me on two villains and the continuation of it through the remaining films that made me hate it. Having two villains doesn't allow enough depth to be developed during the course of the cinematic short story/novella. I'd rather have one villain, whoever it is, and be allowed to seriously get into that character and their relationship/interaction with the hero rather than have (nearly) everyone reduced down to a caricature of what might have been.

ChunkyC · Aug 28, 2008

I agree, keep the number of villains down. The Clooney Batman film fell flat on its face in no small part due to there being far too many characters to keep track of. That and a lousy story, bad writing, terrible directing....

If multiple baddies are to work at all, I think they should be in league with each other, which is why I thought the second Keaton Batman movie was pretty good; The Penguin and Catwoman were cohorts.

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for a third film in this particular series. What a villain like The Riddler has going for him is recognition. Those on the periphery of the whole Batman thing, like myself, won't be all that familiar with other bad guys and gals. Case in point: I have no idea who any of those characters childeroland mentioned are, but I definitely know The Riddler. I bet a huge percentage of the peeps going to the current Batman movies are just like me. So if they find the right actor to give a similar level of performance for The Riddler like Ledger just did with The Joker, it would be amazing.

On the other hand, a villain that has never been on the big screen, done equally well, would also be quite a treat and would expand the scope of the franchise.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 28, 2008

GreenFriend said:
People seem to dislike having two villains since Spider-Man 3, and with the Joker, we don't really need them. But villains are not a representation of the hero, they are the personification to the events and sociology of the world.

Exactly. In Batman's world, villains don't wait their turn. They are there all the time, and he has to deal with them, sometimes together. That's the way it is in the comic.

In Batman Begins, we had the Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul. In Dark Knight, we have The Joker, The Scarecrow, Two-Face, and Maroni. So why not?

GreenFriend said:
Catwoman, if done in small doses could push the love story (though I'd rather Bruce be "impotent," but that's another thread), Catwoman is the polar opposite of Batman in the ways the Joker couldn't be.

What would you like to see in the thrid of the Batman franchise?

I love Catwoman. She is my favorite Batman villian after Two-Face. I love her so much that I almost don't want to see her in a movie. (I still have never watched Batman Forever with Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face.) The only actress I would want to see play her that I can think of would be Helena Bonham Carter.

The only version of Selina I would like to see would be the Batman: Year One. The hooker Catwoman.

I would very much like to see Clayface or The Mad Hatter.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 28, 2008

ChunkyC said:
I have no idea who any of those characters childeroland mentioned are, but I definitely know The Riddler. I bet a huge percentage of the peeps going to the current Batman movies are just like me.

Did you know who Ra's Al Ghul, The Scarecrow, or Salvatore Maroni were before you saw the movies?

ChunkyC · Aug 28, 2008

Nope.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 29, 2008

maestrowork said:
Rumors has it that Nolan wants Cher (62) to play an older Catwoman, instead of Angelina Jolie as first rumored...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4669584a1860.html

Actually, that might be cool, if it really does turn out to be based on The Dark Knight Returns...

DeleyanLee · Aug 29, 2008

Celia Cyanide said:
In Batman Begins, we had the Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul. In Dark Knight, we have The Joker, The Scarecrow, Two-Face, and Maroni.

There were?!? Who is Maroni? Where was The Scarecrow? What's Ra's Al Ghul?

I have no idea who these characters are but I certainly didn't notice any extra villains than The Joker or the creation/demise of Two-Face.

Did we see the same movie?

childeroland · Aug 29, 2008

Maroni was played by Eric Roberts -- the mobster Batman dropped from the ledge and who later told Two-Face of Ramirez's complicity in Rachel's death. Ra's is the Liam Neeson character in Begins (though he poses as Henri Ducard and Ken Watanabee (sp?) pretends to be Ra's till Bruce Wayne burns down the League's hideout. Scarecrow (Cillian Murphy) was the corrupt mob psychiatrist in Begins and the drug dealer caught by Bats iin the parking garage in TDK.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 30, 2008

DeleyanLee said:
There were?!? Who is Maroni? Where was The Scarecrow? What's Ra's Al Ghul?

I have no idea who these characters are but I certainly didn't notice any extra villains than The Joker or the creation/demise of Two-Face.

Did we see the same movie?

Salvatore Maroni was a pretty important character. He was the new head of the Falcone crime family, after Carmine Falcone. He was behind the attempt to kill Harvey Dent in court, toward the beginning of the movie. The Joker approached Maroni about working together to get rid of the Batman. Maroni also had his fingers in everything and was bribing many of Gordon's officers. Gordon had several cops working for him that Harvey Dent had investigated while he was in internal affairs, and they were corrupt. This led to Harvey and Rachel being kidnapped. This is why Two-Face blamed Jim Gordon for Rachel's death, and why he threatened Gordon's family.

Joker: Me? I was right here. Who did you leave him [Dent] with? Your people? Assuming the are still your people and not Maroni's.

The Scarecrow appeared at the beginning of the movie, when the Batman copycats showed up. The Scarecrow was played by Cillian Murphy. He first appeared in Batman Begins.

Ra's Al Ghul was from Batman Begins.

DeleyanLee · Aug 30, 2008

Never caught the name of Liam Neeson's character in the first movie. Never noticed the Scarecrow in the first fight. I realized there were bad cops and gangsters in DK, but never counted them as anything more than story filler, so they weren't important enough for me to remember their names after the movie was finished.

Thus, to my experience, you have one supervillain (Joker) with a subplot villain (Two-Face) who was pretty much controlled by Joker, so it didn't feel as overcrowded as most of multi-supervillain movies have. *shrug* YMMV.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 30, 2008

DeleyanLee said:
Never caught the name of Liam Neeson's character in the first movie.

He was the main villian in the first movie.

DeleyanLee said:
I realized there were bad cops and gangsters in DK, but never counted them as anything more than story filler, so they weren't important enough for me to remember their names after the movie was finished.

Well...Maroni, Lao, and the rest of them pretty much fueled the whole plot. They were a bit more important than story filler.

katiemac · Aug 31, 2008

Well...Maroni, Lao, and the rest of them pretty much fueled the whole plot. They were a bit more important than story filler.

And this is why Dark Knight's multiple villains worked better than Spider-man 3's. They weren't working together, but the fact these villains existed in one time and place affected each other and Batman. I haven't seen Spider-man 3 since its midnight release (and I try to block it out of my memory anyway) but in Spider-man the villains were merely there, they weren't cohesive.

childeroland · Aug 31, 2008

Sony supposedly forced Raimi to use Venom -- he originally planned to use only Sandman, OSIH.

dgiharris · Aug 31, 2008

I think you can do two villians as long as each villian had their own movie to develop their character.

Like putting Heath's joker in a future film with another villain, after that villian had his chance to develop in his own movie.

But alas, Heath is no longer with us. I saw Dark Knight twice just for his character. WOW!!!! What a shame.

But I agree, whoever it is next, give me a real 3-d dark villian.

Mel...

Celia Cyanide · Sep 1, 2008

I saw it in IMAX again last night! YIPPEE!!!!! My friend has been working on a movie every day for the last few months, and it was her first time. She loved it, and she said that when she has another day off, she wants to go again...

anyway...I think a really dark version of The Mad Hatter would be awesome for the next movie. I predict that there will be one villian that has never been brought to the big screen before, and one that has.

Bane would be a cool one, too, if he were portrayed like he was in the comic, and not like in the crappy movie.

JimmyB27 · Sep 1, 2008

childeroland said:
Sony supposedly forced Raimi to use Venom -- he originally planned to use only Sandman, OSIH.

Funny, I thought that film would have been a lot better if they'd dropped Sandman, and kept Venom.

On topic - I agree that a lesser known villain would be better. Or, as Celia says, maybe one well known and one not.
I reckon Hush would be good - he makes a nice 'what could have been' mirror to Batman.

katiemac · Sep 1, 2008

I saw it in IMAX again last night! YIPPEE!!!!! My friend has been working on a movie every day for the last few months, and it was her first time. She loved it, and she said that when she has another day off, she wants to go again...

Celia, you single-handedly pushed DK over the $500 million mark, didn't you? Anyone think it can outlast Titanic and go for $600?

childeroland · Sep 1, 2008

Warners thinks it'll go to 520-530, maybe 550. Harry Potter's been pushed back, but James Bond's still coming out in November. I don't see TDK doing another 100 mill.

Celia Cyanide · Sep 1, 2008

katiemac said:
Celia, you single-handedly pushed DK over the $500 million mark, didn't you?

I think I did! I keep on finding my friends who haven't seen it and forcing them to go! They love me for it, though, and they beg me to take them again. I even missed one of my own movies for DK last night!

katiemac said:
Anyone think it can outlast Titanic and go for $600?

I keep seeing it again and again. I think I can make it happen!

James81 · Sep 1, 2008

DeleyanLee said:
There were?!? Who is Maroni? Where was The Scarecrow? What's Ra's Al Ghul?

I have no idea who these characters are but I certainly didn't notice any extra villains than The Joker or the creation/demise of Two-Face.

Did we see the same movie?

You sure you didn't wander into "Tropic Thunder" or something?

How could you watch these movies and NOT know who those people are? :roll:

The Dark Knight Returns - Batman III

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