Atypical Woman Writing a Female Lead

Well (he said in a humorous way), I'm not sure I'd want to read a book about the typical, everyday, ordinary woman (unless something extraordinary happens to her and she become something of an atypical character). Many characters in fiction, whether male or female, are a bit different. That's one of the things that makes them interesting.

Think about the books by Barbara Kingsolver (the three where the woman is given a small child)--The Bean Trees, Animal Dreams, and Pigs in Heaven. That character is not the typical female character.

The only thing I'd caution you about is making the character the complete opposite of the stereotypical woman; sort of an anti-stereotypical woman, so to speak. That sort of character can get annoying quickly (I'm not saying yours would be, just pointing it out).

Considering other people's suggestions can be helpful, but it's your baby. Make it something special and people will forget they ever suggested changing it.

Sounds refreshing to me! Write on, girl.

Wow, thanks for reiterating those lovely stereotypes. I don't carry a purse, although I do have a wallet, I never think about the calories of the things I eat, and I don't worry about going out at night alone. I guess I'm not a woman.

The thing is, you can write anything you want. Any characterizations will work if you write it convincingly enough. So instead of looking at the stereotypes that your character might not exhibit, look at the actual characterization. If she doesn't think about calories, make sure that at some point it's brought up, even if the thinks about it for a second, so that the reader can see her rationalization for it. If you can show the character's rationalization, without it becoming an info dump or a two page rumination of why she's different then the reader will go along. The trick is to get to the point where the reader will say, "A woman would never think that but I can totally see why this woman does. I understand her."

If your readers are saying a woman would never do that, then you haven't developed your character sufficiently for the reader to understand. Having said that, there are actual differences between men and woman that have been studied and documented. When working in teams, women discuss the task before they do it. Women will read the instructions all the way through before putting something together, ie IKEA furniture. Woman, when having a conversation, tend to look at the person they are having a conversation with. Women will set aside time to have an important conversation while men tend to have them while doing something else. ie "We need to talk" vs "let's play a game of b'ball" when wanting to discuss marriage.

These are documented, scientific facts. And even those can be changed if you create a character rich enough to explain the different. For example, if your female character grew up in a family with no mother and 6 brothers she may very well have picked up male traits, or a male raised by a mother who has 6 sister.

So instead of looking at female stereotypes (seriously, I havent carried a purse in ten years) look at how you've built your characters and dig a little deeper.

I *like* characters (and people!) that don't fit the mold your readers seem to be expecting. So, in general, I vote to carry on as you are.

What I would suggest considering is if there's something else in your writing that is creating these expectations. Is your book, for example, chick-lit (or whatever) in all but this one character? Maybe the plot and setting are creating an expectation that's confounded by a protag who seems out of place.

If this is somehow so, it still doesn't mean you should change your character. But maybe you need to adjust other elements of your story to better calibrate reader expectation.

And/or perhaps you need a wider pool of beta readers...

Clair Dickson said:

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)
1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with
2. Women focus on relationships
3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves
4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

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Clair Dickson said:

This has been stressing me a bit lately. I've gotten some comments about how my female lead wouldn't do/think/ etc what I've written because that's not how women are.

The comments pretty much always come from women. All the comments directed towards my character (by people who don't know me) are things that I do. And while I admit that some of the things I write may not be what other women do, I'm kind of at a loss for what, if anything, I should do about it in my writing. I fear that any attempts I make to write a more typical female lead could end up in the land of stereotypes.

While my character is not me, she does have some of the same traits as I do. Hubby suggested I try hanging out with more females... so this is what I came up with. What is your advice? (I'd love to hear from both male and female writers and readers.)

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)
1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with
2. Women focus on relationships
3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves
4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

Part of me figures I should just dismiss these comments and write the character I enjoy writing. But before I do so, I wanted to get some other opinions.

Thoughts? And thanks.

Click to expand...

I think it depends on the type of story you're writing. I've read a romance/women's contemporary fiction story called Odd Mom Out that is an actual story of a non-typical woman/mom- that is the story. So, in that case, it makes sense that she stands out from the other mother's with her attire, her attitude, etc... and the author does paint the other women as more 'typical' women.
I would think you would be able to get away with more non-typical woman things in other genres such as mystery, fantasy, etc...
Regardless of the genre- while I don't think you need to make your character some stereotype, it may be a good idea to give her a few 'typical' woman characteristics if your crits have made this suggestion. Either that or make it an obvious character trait that she is not a 'typical' woman.
Just my two cents- Oh, and while I don't consider myself a 'typical' woman- I like all my body parts most of the time, I'm not afraid of being out alone at night, I can change a tire, handle most assemble-it-yourself projects (basketball hoops, entertainment centers, bikes), I stand up for myself with tremendous force and don't back down- I also carry a purse, worry about my diet, cry over sappy movies and I do have a tendency to focus on relationships.
So... if you'd like a to toss any questions my way about how to make your character a little closer to 'typical' but not a total wuss, just PM me and I'd be happy to help.
That being said, I doubt most women are 'typical'. We've come a long way, baby!

I agree. And while I carry a purse now, I use to never. Didn't start until I had a kid. Gotta put spare diapers and underwear SOMEwhere.

I don't ever think about calories let alone know how much I should eat a day. If it weren't for my over protective husband, I'd not be afraid to be out at night by myself.

So like everyone else said before me, I think you're fine.

Some of those things are true of me and some of them aren't. What would seem odd to me, I think, is that if a woman acted like your character but without any self-awareness or consciousness of being atypical. I think that most women who don't check off many of the "feminine" boxes realize that their femininity is being monitored, and come to some sort of accomodation with that - they might get defensive, they might get hostile towards girly girls, they might try harder to fit in, and even if life goes on just as before they will at least reflect occasionally on not fitting the stereotype.

Just for example, I used to be out on my own at night a couple times a week, in a series of extremely safe neighborhoods. That made me feel somewhat superior to women who didn't like going out by themselves at night; it made me feel brave; it made me feel like I was striking a blow against those who think the world is just too dangerous for women. Now, in a somewhat less safe neighborhood, I am still out on my own a couple times at week, with different emotions: I feel a bit nervous, and then I feel angry and defensive for being nervous, and I feel like being nervous is not at all going to affect whether I can go out at night. I also feel a bit silly when I'm reminded, over and over again, that just because I'm not in a middle-class neighborhood doesn't mean I'm actually in danger.

So - apologies for the length of this - I don't necessarily act like a stereotypical woman, but my actions and emotions are definitely reflected against my own awareness of what woman "should" think and feel and do, and a woman who doesn't have any such awareness might not feel real to me.

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)
1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with
2. Women focus on relationships
3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves
4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

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Except for #3, the above points fit who I am. I've been accused, by both sexes, of being weird and not like other women.

I normally don't read the type of book you are writing, Clair. But when I read the character description on another thread, I knew I'd pick up the book. The character resonates with me. So maybe I'm your target audience...a wildly successful, beautiful (she says with no modesty whatsoever), independent women who can tell the difference between a f*ck and love making.

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)

1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with

Probably true on some level, but the question is whether it's a trait your particular character thinks about. If a woman pulls on a pair of jeans and absently notes that they make her ass look too big but what the hell, they're comfortable, I'm going to buy that as a reader. If, on the other hand, she looks into every mirror she passes and obsesses over how she looks, I'm going to throw the book against the wall and note that author as someone to avoid in future.

It's all about balance.

2. Women focus on relationships

Again, it depends. I had a female character who was in the military and involved in a tense, dangerous situation; relationships just weren't a part of the story, so that isn't what she focused on. Staying alive was her driving motivation.

That said, women are probably more likely to have an emotional support system of friends and family, and more likely to talk about problems and how they feel about them.

3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves

Totally depends on the woman. A woman who is trained in self-defense and/or is very self-confident wouldn't necessarily be uncomfortable, though in a dangerous area or situation she'd naturally be cautious.

4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

I know plenty of woman who don't do most of those things. However, most women have at least one "girly" habit or trait, and I'd advise you to give your character one. You want your female readers to be able to relate to her, and is she's too far outside "the norm" that'll be difficult.

Part of me figures I should just dismiss these comments and write the character I enjoy writing. But before I do so, I wanted to get some other opinions.

Write your character, but do be aware that your readers need to be able to relate to her or root for her, and if you make her too alien to their experiences, they'll have problems doing either.

I would be careful not to try to show how your character is different from stereotypes. You don't have to deal with calories unless it's part of the story. If she doesn't carry a purse, does it have to be mentioned? Build her character as you see it, make her real and let readers think, if they must, hey, this woman is not average! When I took on the task to write about a woman who suffered abuse, I wanted her to have the strength and determination to overcome it and in her own way fight back. I didn't want a stereotype, I wanted a fighter. I think you do, too. We have the luxury of inventing people. All we have to do is make them believable.

Perhaps you are just asking advice of the wrong people. Do the people that you are allowing to read your work invest in gender stereotypes, themselves? Trust in yourself. You don't have to write a typical character. Don't worry if friends and family don't understand the character- there will be people that will.

Here's a little affirmation:

-I am a woman.

-I am ok with my body

-I have quite a few "focuses" in my life, not just relationships, though the welfare of my friendships and family are paramount, just like most people, regardless of gender.

-While some places are scary for any human at night, I do go out, and I try to be aware of my surroundings. I don't let fear stop me from living my life.

-I do things women do, because I am, myself, a woman, however, I prefer not to carry a purse- I hate them. I do carry a small backpack when I don't have pockets.

-I loathe shopping and do so only when absolutely necessary.

-I try to eat healthy, but I would go insane if I had to count calories, and I say screw anyone who doesn't like it. I don't want to know people (men or women) like that, anyway.

So there. We don't have to fit the stereotype, and neither does your character. Just write. If there are any problems, you will be able to revise later. Your character does not have to fit into a box, and you are not writing her to please others, just yourself. Keep up the good work!

Maybe you're not a typical woman, Clair. Which is obvious given the title of this thread, but still: you're writing a female lead who is similar to yourself. Your readers don't identify with her. Do your readers identify with you?

You, and your character, are female by sex. I mean, that's the hardware you got. No Y chromosomes involved, right? But it seems you are not female by gender. Society raises women to behave in certain ways, think certain things, prioritize certain things: carry purses, talk about boys, be insecure with your body image, marry a man who makes more than you do, dream about a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence and 2.5 children. Maybe your readers lack the imagination to be fundamentally different...

So how did your female lead get to be the way she is? Was she ever typical? If so, what changed her? If not, what was her life like to get to where she is now? Those details might be what it takes to make her more identifiable to typical women, methinks.

Clair Dickson said:

This has been stressing me a bit lately. I've gotten some comments about how my female lead wouldn't do/think/ etc what I've written because that's not how women are.

The comments pretty much always come from women. All the comments directed towards my character (by people who don't know me) are things that I do. And while I admit that some of the things I write may not be what other women do, I'm kind of at a loss for what, if anything, I should do about it in my writing. I fear that any attempts I make to write a more typical female lead could end up in the land of stereotypes.

While my character is not me, she does have some of the same traits as I do. Hubby suggested I try hanging out with more females... so this is what I came up with. What is your advice? (I'd love to hear from both male and female writers and readers.)

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)
1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with
2. Women focus on relationships
3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves
4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

Part of me figures I should just dismiss these comments and write the character I enjoy writing. But before I do so, I wanted to get some other opinions.

Thoughts? And thanks.

Click to expand...

I think what your female readers are trying to say is that they are having trouble relating to and understanding your character and they are pointing to these superficial things to explain that. I haven't read your work so I'm only theorizing here. I've read many many books in the Romance genre where the female lead is not like me, but there is something about that character that makes me relate to her and understand her or something about her that makes me like her. I've also read boatloads of thrillers with male leads who are not like me, but there is something about them that I can identify with or that makes me like them. It only has to be one thing to make that hook or click. Very rarely, for me, is it about superficial physical stuff, it is usually something about their personality that clicks.

I haven't read your work so I can't say for sure, but maybe all your character needs is to have her personality developed a bit more. *shrug*

Clair Dickson said:

This has been stressing me a bit lately. I've gotten some comments about how my female lead wouldn't do/think/ etc what I've written because that's not how women are.

The comments pretty much always come from women. All the comments directed towards my character (by people who don't know me) are things that I do. And while I admit that some of the things I write may not be what other women do, I'm kind of at a loss for what, if anything, I should do about it in my writing. I fear that any attempts I make to write a more typical female lead could end up in the land of stereotypes.

While my character is not me, she does have some of the same traits as I do. Hubby suggested I try hanging out with more females... so this is what I came up with. What is your advice? (I'd love to hear from both male and female writers and readers.)

Some specific issues that were brought up: (Not MY concerns, but what others have said about my character.)
1. Women always have some part of their body they don't like/ are uncomfortable with
2. Women focus on relationships
3. Women wouldn't be comfortable out at night, by themselves
4. My female lead doesn't do the things women do (carry a purse, go shopping, worry about calories/ diet, worry about what the men think)

Part of me figures I should just dismiss these comments and write the character I enjoy writing. But before I do so, I wanted to get some other opinions.

Thoughts? And thanks.

Click to expand...

Hi,

1. What? Women always have a body part they don't like? I don't have any body issues. Should I develop one?
2. this depends on the individual woman.
3. I'm pretty comfortable by myself alone at night. I wouldn't say, totally. I mean- it's always good to be alert and on your guard. But, that goes for during the daytime, too.
4. I don't diet. Diets are silly. I don't count calories. I eat balanced meals and exercise regularly. I do carry a purse. I shop when I'm in the mood. I'm not a shopaholic. I also don't gossip or chitchat on the phone.

Am I not a typical woman? Or is just that we have these stereotypes thrown at us?

I have a feeling I'd love your female character! Please don't change her to fit some preconceived notions.

I think it was Uncle Jim who said to believe your beta readers when they tell you something is wrong, but don't believe them when they tell you *what* is wrong. Beach Bunny said the rest of what I was going to say.

I like her already. I'm quite weary of the boring stereotypes you've noted here. Yawn. That said, you'll probably always get readers telling you women wouldn't do such and such. The MC in my medieval novel is a pretty gutsy woman who owns her own property and fights her own battles. That didn't sit well with some readers and they pointed out to me that women in that period had none of the freedoms I'd given her. I quoted from some nonfiction books on real medieval women who had all the freedom of my character, and more. Just because such women aren't the norm, doesn't mean they don't exist and are far more interesting than the rest IMO.
Linnea

I'm not "typical," either. I read more books with male leads than I do female, probably because I tire easily of what is considered "normal" women stuff. I personally wouldn't worry about it, and I also wouldn't worry about trying to rationalize her behavior. Sometimes people just are.

ETA: What's your genre?

Clair, you are a "typical woman" and so is Venus Williams and so is Jane Goodall and so is Mae Jemison and so is Cheryl Haworth and so is Martha Stewart and so is Pamela Anderson and so is my 90-year-old next-door neighbor who teaches piano lessons and still rides her bicycle everywhere.

In other words, there is no "typical woman."

Now, you aren't a stereotypical woman, but then who is? Don't fall into the Laurell K. Hamilton trap of making your protagonist an OMG SO NOT TYPICAL WOMAN LOOK AT HOW UNTYPICAL SHE IS because that's just reinforcing stereotypes.

And as for people who criticize your writing because your protagonist isn't a "stereotypical woman," they're not giving very useful or insightful critiques. Your protagonist is a private eye, IIRC, which is not a profession that lends itself to stereotypes for any gender.

Nobody criticizes Raymond Chandler because Philip Marlowe isn't a "stereotypical man" who's worried about a mortgage and watching sports on TV and worrying about his bald spot and the spare tire that's encroaching on his middle, do they?

So stop worrying about people trying to encourage you to buy into outdated stereotypes. That never makes writing good.

IceCreamEmpress said:

Clair, you are a "typical woman" and so is Venus Williams and so is Jane Goodall and so is Mae Jemison and so is Cheryl Haworth and so is Martha Stewart and so is Pamela Anderson and so is my 90-year-old next-door neighbor who teaches piano lessons and still rides her bicycle everywhere.

In other words, there is no "typical woman."

Now, you aren't a stereotypical woman, but then who is? Don't fall into the Laurell K. Hamilton trap of making your protagonist an OMG SO NOT TYPICAL WOMAN LOOK AT HOW UNTYPICAL SHE IS because that's just reinforcing stereotypes.

And as for people who criticize your writing because your protagonist isn't a "stereotypical woman," they're not giving very useful or insightful critiques. Your protagonist is a private eye, IIRC, which is not a profession that lends itself to stereotypes for any gender.

Nobody criticizes Raymond Chandler because Philip Marlowe isn't a "stereotypical man" who's worried about a mortgage and watching sports on TV and worrying about his bald spot and the spare tire that's encroaching on his middle, do they?

So stop worrying about people trying to encourage you to buy into outdated stereotypes. That never makes writing good.

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Thank you for writing so eloquently what I was trying to convey in my own post. You hit everything dead on. Especially the difference between "typical" and "stereotypical".

Okay, now that I got my "stereotypes are silly" response out the way, perhaps the problem isn't that women can't relate to your character. Maybe no one can't relate to your character. I do not mean this to sound harsh, only trying to get your wheels turning.

If the response is, "women don't do that," then maybe you should substitute "women" with "people." People don't do that. It's possible you're not giving the readers enough reason to believe in your character, regardless of her sex. I'd be curious to know what kinds of points your readers have trouble with.

Know your characters and make sure they come across as natural and real. But as for "typical" women -- sheesh, there's your answer. The word "typical." We're not statistics. There are women who don't fit any of those descriptions, and they're no less female than others. Same with men and their "typical" traits.

Still, if your betas don't believe in your characters, you may have to think about why. The more atypical they are, the more you may have to explain ("she's a military officer and just ended a 5-year relationship, so love's just on her radar right now").

Also, it depends on your genre. Obviously if you're writing a chick lit or romance and you try to reach the "typical" romance readers, who are into relationships and love, you may have to think about what your protagonist should represent. Since you're writing a hardboiled mystery, you can certainly deviate from that "typicalness." Still, you need to draw a fully developed character with history and reasons so that your readers understand what makes her tick: Why she doesn't care about relationship issues or worry about if she's a bit out of shape, etc. etc.

I'll cite an example: Marion Ravenwood in Indiana Jones. There's nothing stereotypical about her, but she's all woman -- and hubba hubba do I have a crush on her. She can hang with and fight the best of men. She's not worried about how she looks. And she certainly doesn't carry a purse everywhere she goes. And she doesn't have relationship hanging on her lips all the time, although she does like Indie very much. Now why do we believe in her character? What makes her tick? We know enough about her background, her motivations, her logics and how she thinks to identify with her as a real person.

I just finished listening to one of Sue Grafton's novels, and her PI, Kinsey Millhone, sounds like she has a lot in common with your character. Kinsey does carry a "shoulder bag", as she constantly calls it, but that's the only difference based on your list. Whether you like her books or not, I don't think you can dispute that there are plenty of people who do, so clearly readers are able to relate to and enjoy a woman who doesn't act like a "typical woman", as your readers put it.

So I guess I'm saying - write what you enjoy, what's comfortable for you. Your readers will be able to tell if you're fighting with what you're writing.