The Two Year Learning Curve

Inkspill · Jul 11, 2008

I've noticed, while lurking around here, that for many people here, it has taken roughly two years since they sent their first query until they got an agent or a publisher for their novel. I've especially noticed the trend in teenagers here.
Is it the query perfection? The realization that those first thirty pages have to be conflict-filled and pristine? Just the amount of time to gather up some SASEs and stick them in the mail? Enough time to scoop the cliches out of your writing and become a better writer, enough time to heighten your skills?
Your personal experiences would be much appreciated.

I'm sorry if there's already a thread on this--I tried searching the archives, but as 'two' was under the four-letters in a word minimum, I couldn't search for something exactly like this.

Thanks!

--Inkspill

dawinsor · Jul 11, 2008

If I think about it, it did take me about two years to get an agent. However, the book the agent accepted was not the one I started with two years ago. That one is languishing in a file on my computer and will probably never see the light of day.

During that two years, I worked hard to get better. I joined an on-line crit group, went to workshops, and read books on writing. I learned what my characteristic flaws were and edited them like crazy. When I started querying the second book, I noticed I was getting requests for partials that didn't lead to fulls, so I revised my first three chapters to get my story rolling more quickly.

I don't know which things made a difference, but I do know I'm not done learning yet.

Kalyke · Jul 11, 2008

You still need to have a finished book waiting. I'm reading this and thinking, do you think that you need to just write the first 30 pages and have an otherwise unfinished book to work on for 2 years? If that's the case, please realize that as the middle and ending change, the beginning changes. You have to have the complete book rough draft done, and then edit it fully many times before those first 30 pages are set in stone. Even if you edit and perfect the first part the other parts following will change them until it is totally "tight" with no loose threads.

Otherwise the question is kind of vague to me.

Shadow_Ferret · Jul 11, 2008

I didn't realize there was a learning curve that was as quick as 2 years.

JJ Cooper · Jul 11, 2008

It all happened fairly quickly for me. Just over a year to write the book, get an agent and then a publisher. Right place right time for me and that doesn't seem the norm. Also, I'm late thirties (I know hard to believe with my avatar) and my platform suited the thrillers I'm writing. That probably had a lot to do with it.

JJ

Gillhoughly · Jul 11, 2008

It took me two years to get plucked from the slush and that had nothing to do with perfecting my query. My queries stunk, they still do. The sale stood or fell on the words of my sample chapters.

The cold fact was that my book just wasn't good enough to sell until I'd done 2-3 full rewrites and redid the first chapter about 25 times.

It's 20 years later and I'm still tinkering with it as I work on a graphic novel adaptation.

Two years is a very short time, though, and you can't sit on your hands. If it comes back it's for a reason, so you tinker and polish and make it better, then send it out again.

Everyone's got a million words of drek to get out of their system before they can REALLY start to write.

The trick is to know what's drek and not submit it!

Inkspill · Jul 11, 2008

Use Her Name said:
You still need to have a finished book waiting. I'm reading this and thinking, do you think that you need to just write the first 30 pages and have an otherwise unfinished book to work on for 2 years? If that's the case, please realize that as the middle and ending change, the beginning changes. You have to have the complete book rough draft done, and then edit it fully many times before those first 30 pages are set in stone. Even if you edit and perfect the first part the other parts following will change them until it is totally "tight" with no loose threads.

Otherwise the question is kind of vague to me.

Oh, no, of course not. I would never shop around an incomplete novel. I usually power through my beginnings and then rewrite them once I reach the end. The question I mean, I think, is what people did to heighten themselves and their writing (beyond the obvious read more, write more, learn more) and if they were part of the two year trend, or if it's just some freaky observation of mine.

Thank you, everyone, for your comments...I'm going to mull 'em over.

--Inkspill

dwellerofthedeep · Jul 11, 2008

I've been writing for about 4 years seriously. I've been trying to get an agent for 1 year now and still haven't managed it. I got another rejection today though, so I'm at least working at it. If two years is somehow some sort of magic time for getting published I won't have to struggle that much longer then.

Nateskate · Jul 11, 2008

Lol, I never noticed. But in my case that is pretty true.

First, I was querying the wrong book. (Now the prequel) Second, I needed to do massive rewrites to fix the books.

I think this site is very sobering in many respects. I took so many of Uncle Jims comments to heart. The man has a ton of wisdom and I had to realize- he knows the industry and what they want. And parts of my story were lacking.

ToddWBush · Jul 11, 2008

Great, I have one novel finished and out seeking agents, and starting on another one. I guess I just have a year and a half left.

bethany · Jul 11, 2008

I've been a little over two years from selling to publication, but the stuff before it was much faster. I think there are just too many variables to figure this out.

maestrowork · Jul 11, 2008

It took me 10 months to get a contract. But I don't see it as "learning curve" per se. It's just part of the process. After my first query garnered only one request, I quickly learn to rewrite it. Thanks to AW I got a lot of information. It's definitely been interesting and I can't wait to do it again (first, I MUST FINISH THIS MS.!).

Inkspill · Jul 11, 2008

Nateskate said:
Lol, I never noticed. But in my case that is pretty true.

First, I was querying the wrong book. (Now the prequel) Second, I needed to do massive rewrites to fix the books.

I think this site is very sobering in many respects. I took so many of Uncle Jims comments to heart. The man has a ton of wisdom and I had to realize- he knows the industry and what they want. And parts of my story were lacking.

Yes, I've been reading that thread whenever I'm online...hopefully, I will eventually finish ALL of it. Hopefully.
Thanks for all the feedback...it takes what it takes, I suppose, is the best answer, the little cousin of "Whatever works, works." Heh. Interesting reading your thoughts, though. Thanks.

--Inkspill

Enraptured · Jul 11, 2008

Two years, huh? I guess that means I have one year left...

But I was working to improve my writing for years before I started querying.

Shady Lane · Jul 11, 2008

Inky, I queried agents for almost exactly a year before I signed with my chica.

Danger Jane · Jul 11, 2008

I remember a thread like this some months ago. After reading about five pages of responses, it seemed like the average "learning curve" was around three years. Of course, this differs greatly from person to person, and I don't think everyone that responded "about three years" was published.

I've been writing seriously for four or five years, although I haven't pursued representation yet. When this story's finished, though, I'll definitely be ready for querying agents/small presses.

scheherazade · Jul 11, 2008

I think a lot of writers are just anxious to reach that goal of publication. So as soon as they finish their novel (ie: Draft #1) they start firing it off to publishers. They might read it over once or twice, correct the grammatical and spelling mistakes, but they don't do a lot of revision.

In the process of being rejected, or just in the intervening time while waiting for a response, they're more likely to take a second look at the structure of the novel, to find readers who can criticize as well as fawn over their work, to go to writing workshops, take classes, read theory about writing. And they're more likely to start writing other work where they can apply what they've learned.

So... it's not necessarily that you need 2 years to wiggle your way into the publishing world. It's more that most writers send their work to publishers a year before it's really in its best shape... and then add another year for waiting for responses, making deals, etc.

Fillanzea · Jul 11, 2008

It was about six years for me. (Six years, and five novels!) - six years until I got the agent. I'm not sure how things will proceed after that!
Those were six years improving my writing craft. I don't think I had a problem writing a decent query letter, or figuring out the submission process. I think I had a problem writing a novel that somebody would want to read.

Inkspill · Jul 11, 2008

Danger Jane said:
I remember a thread like this some months ago. After reading about five pages of responses, it seemed like the average "learning curve" was around three years. Of course, this differs greatly from person to person, and I don't think everyone that responded "about three years" was published.

Ack, ack, sorry! I didn't realize. I'll be sure to search the archives more thoroughly next time.
Thank you for all the input, everyone.

--Inkspill

Nakhlasmoke · Jul 11, 2008

I started writing about 4 years ago, and started querying about 2 years back.

My work is vastly improved from those early works, but I still have far to go.

Just accept that you can always do better, and you'll improve and someone will notice. Setting a time-limit on it is just going to depress you if the deadline passes and you're still trying to get agented.

Straka · Jul 12, 2008

Gillhoughly said:
Everyone's got a million words of drek to get out of their system before they can REALLY start to write.

That's terrific! I just hit my 1 million word creative count a few months ago. Here comes the gravy train now right?

Right?

Straka · Jul 12, 2008

Inkspill said:
I've noticed, while lurking around here, that for many people here, it has taken roughly two years since they sent their first query until they got an agent or a publisher for their novel.

I started writing semi seriously in high school about 9 years ago. I've since written 6 manuscripts but have only ever queried my first one because I was silly enough to think it was good. It dawned on me that while it was a good story, it was not written to be marketable because I didn't know about the business when I started. I don't really do crit groups besides my betas. I just read a lot and write even more. In many ways I think I took the longer route by doing it this way but I'm starting to feel more confident that my newest work might have a shot.

Gillhoughly · Jul 12, 2008

I should have qualified my post.

It took two years to sell my novel after 11 months of writing it by hand, then typing it. That was my first I-going-to-SELL-this-thing-and-get-my-foot-on-the-ladder piece. Then it was another 18 months before it was in the bookstores. NOT a fun wait!

Prior to that I spent two-three years on short pieces for a game company and sold a few things to them.

Prior to THAT I'd been telling stories and writing since I was 10 or so and I was in my 30s before I got to the point of getting anything serious on paper. I didn't just wake up one morning and take up writing. It was something coded into my DNA.

I DID wake up one day to the fact that if I didn't figure out this craft, finish something, and send it in I'd be stuck in crappy day jobs, because most liberal arts educations are useless for making a living. Not a lot of rich actors or artists are out there, either. (My other options.)

So I read every book in the library to figure out how the other writers did it. Read even bloody awful books I hated so I'd not repeat those writers' mistakes, and memorized the books in the 808 section.

Against some rather high odds, it worked. I'm still amazed.

The Two Year Learning Curve

Inkspill

dawinsor

Dorothy A. Winsor

Kalyke

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

JJ Cooper

.

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Inkspill

dwellerofthedeep

Electric Alien Fish Machine

Nateskate

ToddWBush

bethany

:)

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Inkspill

Enraptured

Narrator

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Danger Jane

scheherazade

Human

Fillanzea

Inkspill

Nakhlasmoke

yes

Straka

Bored Fanatic

Straka

Bored Fanatic

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor