Is a clean story out of style?
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The fact that there are less taboos about what you can write about doesn't mean there is no market for less gritty fare. The bookshelf in my local bookstore still seem to be full of G rated sagas and literary works.
I think a good story is a good story...just as mentioned above. I don't care what's happening, as long as I am into the writing...I don't need violence to keep reading.
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Write a good story, and the rest will follow. My novel barely has sex in it, and it has no violence or crime. Plenty of conflict, yes. But conflict doesn't mean violence.
I think there's definitely a market for "family friendly" stories.
The stuff considered "Titilating" to some is often considered "cloying" to others. Some people loved shows like Home Improvement and Seventh Heaven at their most innocent, "before" the kids started experimenting with sex. The key to a great story is people's ability to find something entertaining, or thought provoking, or simply with a great storyline.
There's a "Disney" marketplace, and I'm referring to the "Old Yeller" and "Swiss Family Robinson" Disney.
My own WIP tried to avoid anything considered "gratuitous". Now, with that said, my story has violence and romance. But that is also germaine to the subject matter of my book. But the romance is PG insofar as nobody strips naked during the story, or describes body parts. I stick to the emotions related to physical and emotional attraction. Likewise, in terms of violence, when there is excessive violence, such as someone's head getting cut off, there are no graphic descriptions. Your story has to dictate what is necessary. I need non-graphic violence to get across the point that evil people do evil things, to make it clear how dangerous they are.
My story is borderline YA. Almost like the "Once upon a time" stories of yesteryear. But in all honesty, I feel no need to add excessive "gore" or explicit "sex" to make it seem more adult.
The stuff considered "Titilating" to some is often considered "cloying" to others. Some people loved shows like Home Improvement and Seventh Heaven at their most innocent, "before" the kids started experimenting with sex. The key to a great story is people's ability to find something entertaining, or thought provoking, or simply with a great storyline.
There's a "Disney" marketplace, and I'm referring to the "Old Yeller" and "Swiss Family Robinson" Disney.
My own WIP tried to avoid anything considered "gratuitous". Now, with that said, my story has violence and romance. But that is also germaine to the subject matter of my book. But the romance is PG insofar as nobody strips naked during the story, or describes body parts. I stick to the emotions related to physical and emotional attraction. Likewise, in terms of violence, when there is excessive violence, such as someone's head getting cut off, there are no graphic descriptions. Your story has to dictate what is necessary. I need non-graphic violence to get across the point that evil people do evil things, to make it clear how dangerous they are.
My story is borderline YA. Almost like the "Once upon a time" stories of yesteryear. But in all honesty, I feel no need to add excessive "gore" or explicit "sex" to make it seem more adult.
To a degree, the genre will determine the type of action, but the true success of a story lies in the characters. As we all know, stories typically involve putting well-developed characters into unusual circumstances. Well-developed is the key. Characterization is built by putting our characters through various situations that may be more familiar than extraordinary and recording their actions and reactions. This provides a strong base for the unusual circumstances that challenge the characters and create the necessary tension. Do the circumstances have to be sexual, violent or unlawful? Not at all. In reality, these are the easy ones. If the characters are interesting and the circumstances intriguing, the story will pull in readers whether it is G, PG, R or X. But the character must be real, and sex is real for most of us. I read somewhere that many writers miss a serious chance to develop a character when they jump from foreplay to the cigarette. One of the situations in which we “bare our souls” is in the intimacy of physical sharing. It is this kind of intense, passionate experience that we can use to really show the nature of our characters. Again, it doesn’t have to be sex—other situations, equally charged, present wonderful opportunities to develop the character base that sets the stage for the unusual predicaments of the story. Write what is comfortable to you, but look for those high-voltage opportunities to show the true nature of your characters. Most important, don’t categorically include or exclude any types of situations.
I don't think that Wendy J is talking about whether a "clean" novel is enjoyable. She's probably concerned as to whether the book would be competitively marketable.
I wonder if there are agents (other than Christian novel specialists) who would aggressively represent this type of book? It's probably not as easy to sell to publishers. Just speculating.
I wonder if there are agents (other than Christian novel specialists) who would aggressively represent this type of book? It's probably not as easy to sell to publishers. Just speculating.
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As a reader, I have no problem with a novel like you've described. "Is it a good story, well told?" is my criteria for enjoying a book. Not all stories need sex, violence, or crime to be told well.Wendy J said:
If you're pleased with it, and the MS is the best you can make it, start sending it out. See what publishers and/or agents have to say about it.
Thanks for the feed back. I have a novel that I want teen-agers to be able to enjoy, as well. Therefore, I didn't get into a lot "adult" issues, though they weren't ignored. Just not the focus of the book and in vivid detail, you know?
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When I was a teen, I wanted books with as much sex and violence as I could get.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
you may just have to market yourself to agents/publishers and make them believe they can sell it. For one, I don't really read books with too much sex, violence and all that. And I'm not the only one. You can site the 'moral majority' as a possible audience. Also, in describing your book, compare it to classics. Most of the stuff they have you read in school does not have sex and violence in it and they're good. Find whatever writer of classics is most similar to your work -- hemingway, henry james, etc...
Also, there are many famous novels that are for teens and adults that don't have questionable content. I'm sure Where The Red Fern Grows still outsells many sex and violence books. Jack London's books have some violence, but nothing outstanding and his books are still read.
You may just need an angle to sell it, but come up with whatever works for your novel. Sometimes you have to be your own advertiser, but anything that is good can be sold. Just find your angle.
Also, there are many famous novels that are for teens and adults that don't have questionable content. I'm sure Where The Red Fern Grows still outsells many sex and violence books. Jack London's books have some violence, but nothing outstanding and his books are still read.
You may just need an angle to sell it, but come up with whatever works for your novel. Sometimes you have to be your own advertiser, but anything that is good can be sold. Just find your angle.
I've read and enjoyed a few stories with no sex or violence, and many with no swearing.
my tendencies to seek sci-fi and fantasy means that most of what i read has violence, but it's certainly no requirement.
Heinlein's Juvies were mostly devoid of both and made excellent reads.
for my own writing, my stories tend towards violence plentiful in quantity, but stomachable in quality (not gory).
i'm sure there's a market for any story, and one could certainly do worse than a good clean tale.
my tendencies to seek sci-fi and fantasy means that most of what i read has violence, but it's certainly no requirement.
Heinlein's Juvies were mostly devoid of both and made excellent reads.
for my own writing, my stories tend towards violence plentiful in quantity, but stomachable in quality (not gory).
i'm sure there's a market for any story, and one could certainly do worse than a good clean tale.
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My WIP has all of the above. Sex, violence and crime but I would still classify it as clean.
The sex is not pornographic, the violence is not gratuitous and the crimes are devious and clever. In fact the crime is the catalyst the others just happen along the way.
I just posted something related in the Abundant Swearing thread. I'm a bit weary of writers trying to shock me into being impressed with a sex and bloodlust. But as I said before this is just me. I'm writing what I like to read and this doesn't apply as a general rule.
Os.
The sex is not pornographic, the violence is not gratuitous and the crimes are devious and clever. In fact the crime is the catalyst the others just happen along the way.
I just posted something related in the Abundant Swearing thread. I'm a bit weary of writers trying to shock me into being impressed with a sex and bloodlust. But as I said before this is just me. I'm writing what I like to read and this doesn't apply as a general rule.
Os.
Personally
Myself I like to see good clean stories and I mean after all there are so many ways that sex in a book can be written and even though the cheap f books sell fast they are after all only f books. Once in a while you can read a good story in them. I have done just that but many stories that you see that make the television movies are after all basic fantasy and do give an view of life that may or may not be distorted. My stories are based on realism about real issues. I wrote a book that did not contain a great deal of sex but it was about 911. I mean are you going to have men and women messing around while trying to rescue people out of a destroyed building. Now I do like good funny stories and Fannie Flagg has written some of the best in that category that I have read. So did Ed Williams. If you go with what is natural to you and make it a good story it works everytime.
Myself I like to see good clean stories and I mean after all there are so many ways that sex in a book can be written and even though the cheap f books sell fast they are after all only f books. Once in a while you can read a good story in them. I have done just that but many stories that you see that make the television movies are after all basic fantasy and do give an view of life that may or may not be distorted. My stories are based on realism about real issues. I wrote a book that did not contain a great deal of sex but it was about 911. I mean are you going to have men and women messing around while trying to rescue people out of a destroyed building. Now I do like good funny stories and Fannie Flagg has written some of the best in that category that I have read. So did Ed Williams. If you go with what is natural to you and make it a good story it works everytime.
As an erotica writer, I'm going to politely note (through gritted teeth) that calling my work "only f books" is demeaning. It may not be your reading taste, which is fine by me--I don't care for westerns, myself, just not a genre I enjoy--but please don't denigrate the work of other writers here.
For the record, my stories are also "based on realism about real issues" and I do my best to "go with what is natural to me and make it a good story," just as you advise. I also write in other genres, including material suitable for the entire family. Those works, too, are reality-based.
Maryn, small plumes of steam coming from her ears
For the record, my stories are also "based on realism about real issues" and I do my best to "go with what is natural to me and make it a good story," just as you advise. I also write in other genres, including material suitable for the entire family. Those works, too, are reality-based.
Maryn, small plumes of steam coming from her ears
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Right on the nose
You got it Os. My WIP has lots of sex, violence and killing...BUT having it is important for the story. If I could tell the story without them, I would. But since they are and important part of the story and the subtext, they are there.
As everyone has said here, as long as the story is good, write what ever works.
Mike
oswann said:
You got it Os. My WIP has lots of sex, violence and killing...BUT having it is important for the story. If I could tell the story without them, I would. But since they are and important part of the story and the subtext, they are there.
As everyone has said here, as long as the story is good, write what ever works.
Mike
I think there's definately a market for "clean" writing. Just as long as the story is good. Even in the horror genre, there are some best-selling authors that keep the story clean. Now that I'm thinking about it, most of the best-sellers limit explicit sex scenes.
***SPOILER ALERT***
My Sweet Audrina by VC Andrews is based on insestual behavior and sexual indecencies, but is still written with minimal graphics. She uses the emotion, cause/effect of sex to illustrate her characters and their reactions, rather than the sexual descriptions themselves.
So, even a book based on sex can be tactful. Just my humble little opinion.
***SPOILER ALERT***
My Sweet Audrina by VC Andrews is based on insestual behavior and sexual indecencies, but is still written with minimal graphics. She uses the emotion, cause/effect of sex to illustrate her characters and their reactions, rather than the sexual descriptions themselves.
So, even a book based on sex can be tactful. Just my humble little opinion.
Good erotica
Do not get bent out of shape over the term f books because erotica can be very cool and written extremely well. I have seen quite a bit of it in the last weeks in poems. It was done so well that one would expect to see hummingbirds and bees hanging over it to grasp at the nectar. So that clarified I mean those books that every other scene has the people in some sort of sex act and the term erotica does not even come close to what the author writes. A hot steamy scene done taste fully is just that. But without going into words I have read books that flat out turned me off. You know the type and without putting down all the words here it would seem a juvenile hanging out in the boys room writing Rhonda does it was the author. Now look at Song Of Solomon one of the most exquiste examples of erotica that was in the Bible.
Do not get bent out of shape over the term f books because erotica can be very cool and written extremely well. I have seen quite a bit of it in the last weeks in poems. It was done so well that one would expect to see hummingbirds and bees hanging over it to grasp at the nectar. So that clarified I mean those books that every other scene has the people in some sort of sex act and the term erotica does not even come close to what the author writes. A hot steamy scene done taste fully is just that. But without going into words I have read books that flat out turned me off. You know the type and without putting down all the words here it would seem a juvenile hanging out in the boys room writing Rhonda does it was the author. Now look at Song Of Solomon one of the most exquiste examples of erotica that was in the Bible.I definately think there is a market out there for "good clean fun". Not everyone is into sex and violence. Regency, not historical, romances are sex and violence free, and sometimes even funny. You should research authors and ask around about authors that don't write sex and violence in their stories.
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Some people look for what society in decline has labeled as okay, but I think a true reader simply wants a good story, and could care less about unclean storytelling. Look at the Horse Whisperer. Howabout A Se...naw, bad example. Okay, a lot of it out there is violent and full of sex, but trust me, readers aren't stupid, they know a good story when they see one.Wendy J said:
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If it's a good story, it shouldn't matter, as many people here have noted.
I'm not sure what your genre is, and I'm also not sure what you consider "clean"...but I can think of lots of stories where the rougher language is kept to a minimum and there is no major violence (short of things like off-screen murders) or sex (implied only).
(I'm thinking about the Jane Jeffries mysteries in particular, which are clean enough that I could recommend 'em to my mother. Sure, there's mention that one character had an affair with another, and oh, there are these murders that Jane solves...but it's all very benign.)
I'm not sure what your genre is, and I'm also not sure what you consider "clean"...but I can think of lots of stories where the rougher language is kept to a minimum and there is no major violence (short of things like off-screen murders) or sex (implied only).
(I'm thinking about the Jane Jeffries mysteries in particular, which are clean enough that I could recommend 'em to my mother. Sure, there's mention that one character had an affair with another, and oh, there are these murders that Jane solves...but it's all very benign.)
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I only used the word clean in response to earlier posts, though the word fits. This is a society in decay, so I refuse to go to the extreme, but I don't plan to go extreme in the opposite direction either. My book has a few swear words because it fits a particular character, and a sexual innuendo, although nothing gratuitous. It doesn't matter. Put violence into your writing, or don't. Season it heavily with sex, or with little sprinkles, or not at all. It really doesn't matter, and to bother with these little disagreements is useless. All in all, what matters most is that the characters develop, the story progresses, and the artistic merit is present in a big, heaping spoonful.
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