First Person Narrative Question
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You don't need to market a first person narrative in any particular way, Wendy - and I doubt the editor rejected it for that reason alone, or because he or she didn't understand it. In my experience editors are quite capable of understanding different narrative styles. What exactly did the editor say in their letter or email to you? It sounds as if their reply was personal, which is a good sign. The comment about 'not enough outsider information' may indicate that you've over-internalised your story, which can be a hazard with some first person stories.
I suggest you read through the 'Overuse of 'I' in First Person' thread, which discusses this in quite a lot of detail. It may help you to understand the editor's comments a little better.
Good luck!
I suggest you read through the 'Overuse of 'I' in First Person' thread, which discusses this in quite a lot of detail. It may help you to understand the editor's comments a little better.
Good luck!
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I would also want to see exactly what the editor said. 1st person is a hard sell. Many publishers will consider it but they are looking for something extra special to make it work.
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My novel is written in first person. It sold. None of the agents who rejected it did it because it was first person (the reasons they listed had more to do with subject and pace). There are many good books out there that are written in first person. The problem is, it's not easy to do well and it is a restricting (you can only tell the story through one POV -- but it's no different than a "close" 3rd person limited).
When they say "not enough outsider information" they probably means it's too "internalized." There's another thread (overuse of "I") that talks about it. You can write a first person without constantly going inside the character's head and talking about her feelings and emotions. There are external information, events, interaction, etc. to be observed. "Outsider information" can be obtained through dialogue or events that the narrator observed. Plot can be developed without having to follow those characters. Imagine telling a story about a wild night you had during Spring Break or Mardi Gras...
Remember what Christopher Isherwood said: I am the camera.
When they say "not enough outsider information" they probably means it's too "internalized." There's another thread (overuse of "I") that talks about it. You can write a first person without constantly going inside the character's head and talking about her feelings and emotions. There are external information, events, interaction, etc. to be observed. "Outsider information" can be obtained through dialogue or events that the narrator observed. Plot can be developed without having to follow those characters. Imagine telling a story about a wild night you had during Spring Break or Mardi Gras...
Remember what Christopher Isherwood said: I am the camera.
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I don't think this is about 1st person at all. The comment seems very supportive. I think this might be an important point: "Everything is vague regarding time and context."
Is the story contemporary, or historical? What city and country is it set in? Is their plenty of authentic detail that grounds the narrative in its period and geographical location?
I would suggest getting critiques on the important chapters from people aware of this criticism. If you don't know some writers who could do this for you try places like critiquecircle.com or genre specific egroups (yahoogroups, msngroups etc)
There is also a point about vague genre. You might like to look into potential publishers. Who are they? What do their guidelines suggest they want? Any good book can find a home but one that fits a publishers needs and niche might find one quicker
Is the story contemporary, or historical? What city and country is it set in? Is their plenty of authentic detail that grounds the narrative in its period and geographical location?
I would suggest getting critiques on the important chapters from people aware of this criticism. If you don't know some writers who could do this for you try places like critiquecircle.com or genre specific egroups (yahoogroups, msngroups etc)
There is also a point about vague genre. You might like to look into potential publishers. Who are they? What do their guidelines suggest they want? Any good book can find a home but one that fits a publishers needs and niche might find one quicker
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A few things I gleaned from the rejection letter:
Vague -- context and time
Story focus
It seems like he's saying your story lacks focus -- or maybe a strong thread to make him turn the pages. He seems to say that you have beautiful writing, but your storytelling skills are somewhat lacking. The "vague" comment probably means you don't have enough specific details to put him inside the time and place and the story.... Without reading your work, that's what I gathered from his letter.
Judging from that and your comment about "not enough outsider information" my guess is your story is more internal than external. Am I right?
I also don't see it as a first person narration problem (at least he didn't say it). On one hand he said you have tremendous writing skills, then he suggested you get some editorial counseling. I think he just means you need some help and guidance in putting/editing a story together... that's my guess.
Vague -- context and time
Story focus
It seems like he's saying your story lacks focus -- or maybe a strong thread to make him turn the pages. He seems to say that you have beautiful writing, but your storytelling skills are somewhat lacking. The "vague" comment probably means you don't have enough specific details to put him inside the time and place and the story.... Without reading your work, that's what I gathered from his letter.
Judging from that and your comment about "not enough outsider information" my guess is your story is more internal than external. Am I right?
I also don't see it as a first person narration problem (at least he didn't say it). On one hand he said you have tremendous writing skills, then he suggested you get some editorial counseling. I think he just means you need some help and guidance in putting/editing a story together... that's my guess.
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Go to the library and get half-a-dozen novels written in first person. Read 'em. Notice how the author brings in the outside world.
Get the story moving fast enough and readers will be pulled along by the wind.
(My first published story was first person, with a female narrator. Go figure.)
Get the story moving fast enough and readers will be pulled along by the wind.
(My first published story was first person, with a female narrator. Go figure.)
From the editor's comments it sounds as if you are tremendously talented. If you are also tremendously determined and willing to listen to advice and work on your ms, you will definitely be getting published.
The vital comments in the letter seem to be about the context of your story, and it's premise. You've already had some good advice about how to pick a genre or premise, so I'll include this link:
www.io.com/~eighner/world_builder/world_builder_index.html
The site is primarily meant for SF writers, but it can still be very helpful for anyone who wants to build a three dimensional world, be that world historical or just somewhere a little out of the ordinary (say, France, or the Middle East). If you don't have your story anchored in a definite time or place then you might want to pick something unique and develop it - it's amazing how often a richly textured fictional world can be the extra element that brings a story alive.
The vital comments in the letter seem to be about the context of your story, and it's premise. You've already had some good advice about how to pick a genre or premise, so I'll include this link:
www.io.com/~eighner/world_builder/world_builder_index.html
The site is primarily meant for SF writers, but it can still be very helpful for anyone who wants to build a three dimensional world, be that world historical or just somewhere a little out of the ordinary (say, France, or the Middle East). If you don't have your story anchored in a definite time or place then you might want to pick something unique and develop it - it's amazing how often a richly textured fictional world can be the extra element that brings a story alive.
I'm intrigued by the first person narrative approach
I don't believe I've ever read a first person narrative novel. Can you suggest a few examples?
Thanks.
James D. Macdonald said:
I don't believe I've ever read a first person narrative novel. Can you suggest a few examples?
Thanks.
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FPN are my favorite novels. They put me in the story. I need it to be good in order for me to take on the character of the narrator, though. It seems to me that the FPN thing wasn't what the editor was emphasising. I agree with most of what's been said here. I loved the idea of you going out and getting some FPN to see how it's done. There are thousands. The ones mentioned by Maestro are all top-notch! Good luck.
First person
First, remembaer that you have one editor's opinion. He may be right, he may be wrong, he certainly has his own set of biases, etc. Any one editor can be completely wrong about a given novel.
I've now sold seven first person novels. I can't see how an editor wouldn't know it was written in first person. Firs person is too obvious to overlook.
There are some genrres where first first doesn't sell well, such as Harlequin style romance, fantasy, and science fiction, but the complaints in the rejection letter seem to have little or nothing to do with the novel being first person. Story seems to be the main problem. When an editor can't tell what genre a story is, you have a real problem. And when an editor says a story isn't strong enough, he often means there isn't enough conflict, or the whole plot isn't important enough to make the reader care what happens.
First person requires the same storytelling skills as third person, and you still have to have tight focus, and you still have to include the world outside the story.
Any novel, first person or third, must fit into a given genre well enough to be released by one of the publisher's lines. A novel can cross genres, and many do, but there must be one genre that it fits into neatly. That the editor couldn't tell what genre the novel fits into is a real problem, and is probably the result of the story's lack of focus.
So, my first real questionn is, what genre do you think the novel is? I think this is an important consideration in which first person novels you find to read.
Wendy J said:
First, remembaer that you have one editor's opinion. He may be right, he may be wrong, he certainly has his own set of biases, etc. Any one editor can be completely wrong about a given novel.
I've now sold seven first person novels. I can't see how an editor wouldn't know it was written in first person. Firs person is too obvious to overlook.
There are some genrres where first first doesn't sell well, such as Harlequin style romance, fantasy, and science fiction, but the complaints in the rejection letter seem to have little or nothing to do with the novel being first person. Story seems to be the main problem. When an editor can't tell what genre a story is, you have a real problem. And when an editor says a story isn't strong enough, he often means there isn't enough conflict, or the whole plot isn't important enough to make the reader care what happens.
First person requires the same storytelling skills as third person, and you still have to have tight focus, and you still have to include the world outside the story.
Any novel, first person or third, must fit into a given genre well enough to be released by one of the publisher's lines. A novel can cross genres, and many do, but there must be one genre that it fits into neatly. That the editor couldn't tell what genre the novel fits into is a real problem, and is probably the result of the story's lack of focus.
So, my first real questionn is, what genre do you think the novel is? I think this is an important consideration in which first person novels you find to read.
"A Dance to the Music of Time", by Anthony Powell, is a 12-volume work (I have it in 4 thick paperbacks, 3 volumes per book) written entirely from the viewpoint of one character. It's a remarkable tour de force, and I find it especially impressive since I usually dislike 1st-person novels. It has a cast of thousands, but all seen and described by Nick Jenkins, a novelist. The work begins around 1912 and ends around 1965; it chronicles England through the entire period.
If it lacks focus it may be because cause and effect are not clearly delinated. Make sure that what is happening now follows clearly from what happened before and leads directly to what happens next.
Read a book or two on plotting.
Is the resolution clear? If it is a romance then the resolution is two people who have found each other. If it is fantasy then the resolution follows directly on the heals of "The Witch is dead." If it is a mystery the culpret is apprehended.
While it is true in real life that what happens next may be unrelated to what happened before or what will happen next and it is also true that often things are not resolved neatly -- We do not accept this in fiction. We want our fiction wrapped neatly, like a present.
Read a book or two on plotting.
Is the resolution clear? If it is a romance then the resolution is two people who have found each other. If it is fantasy then the resolution follows directly on the heals of "The Witch is dead." If it is a mystery the culpret is apprehended.
While it is true in real life that what happens next may be unrelated to what happened before or what will happen next and it is also true that often things are not resolved neatly -- We do not accept this in fiction. We want our fiction wrapped neatly, like a present.
Music of Time
It might be a good idea for those who wish to write first person fiction to go over to Amazon.com and read the first two or three pages of volume one and count the number of times "I" is used.
Vomaxx said:
It might be a good idea for those who wish to write first person fiction to go over to Amazon.com and read the first two or three pages of volume one and count the number of times "I" is used.
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I just counted. In the first two pages of my novel, there are 16 I's (not counting dialogue or dialogue tags) -- out of about 500 words. I guess it's not that bad.
Maestrowork, did you go and check out the pages on Amazon like James suggested? I ask this because I'm writing in the first person, too. You, however, have already published yours.
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I did check those pages. While I think they were very well-written, I just don't think it applies to my way of writing or style or the type of stories I write. I write very "conversational" 1st person accounts, and it has actions right off the first pages. I really can't see how I can get away from something like "I chased after her..." Anything else would be false or pretentious to my story. And I don't think getting rid of the "I" completely is my quest. I only try to minimize it.
I think the thing to learn from those pages is the skill to use the outside world to show the inside world of the narrator. For example, there's a passage in my book where, instead of saying "I feel sad," or even "sadness consumes me," I describe the scenery instead without using pathetic fallacy...
"The boats loll nearby, and the thin moon turned into a frown in the dark water..."
Like an artist, I try to paint the visuals with the right words to convey certain mood and emotions...
I only try to minimize it.I think the thing to learn from those pages is the skill to use the outside world to show the inside world of the narrator. For example, there's a passage in my book where, instead of saying "I feel sad," or even "sadness consumes me," I describe the scenery instead without using pathetic fallacy...
"The boats loll nearby, and the thin moon turned into a frown in the dark water..."
Like an artist, I try to paint the visuals with the right words to convey certain mood and emotions...
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example
Another good one: "What Was She Thinking? [Notes on a Scandal]" by Zoe Heller. She did a great job creating all the characters, including the speaker.
Another good one: "What Was She Thinking? [Notes on a Scandal]" by Zoe Heller. She did a great job creating all the characters, including the speaker.
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