Can I read it?

azbikergirl · Apr 10, 2005

I've mentioned to nearly everyone I know that I'm working on a novel and hope to change careers eventually to write full time. Invariably, people ask me to let them read my manuscript. I naively sent it to a few friends, expecting them to actually read it. They didn't. Always had something to do, will get around to it this weekend, oops, maybe next weekend...

Now, when people ask me to let them read it, I either don't respond or I tell them flat out no.

Does this happen to you? Do you let them read it? What do you say?

MacAllister · Apr 10, 2005

azbiker--with the exception of my crit group, I don't let anyone read what I'm working on til it's done. I sort of feel like it sucks energy out of actually writing, and that reading the thing incomplete is doing it an injustice, anyway.

Tell 'em to wait til it has a cover on it.

jules · Apr 10, 2005

Occasionally. Anyone who writes themselves, I let them read it. Other writers' feedback is often useful. A couple of good friends whose opinions I trust. Everyone else I tell them they'll have to wait until it's finished. Of course what I'm not telling them is that it won't be finished 'till it's on the shelves...

maestrowork · Apr 10, 2005

I try not to let anyone read my first draft. My crit group has read some, but now I kind of back off from showing them first draft as well.

katiemac · Apr 10, 2005

As posted in another thread, no one has read even one word of what I'm writing. I don't even like writing around people, lest they would somehow read over my shoulder, or just accidentally glance over.

I don't even know if I want people I know in the real world reading it when it's finished, as bizarre as that sounds. I'd rather be success to strangers than my family and friends. Which means, when it's time for beta readers I'm going to have to look for some folks around these parts who have the time and ability to give me a hand.

BlueTexas · Apr 10, 2005

I've only had one request, and they actually did read it. No useful feedback, though.

But when people find out I write, they think I should know something useful to tell them or know someone useful to hook them up with. I send them to the UJ thread. It always strikes me as the same thing as thinking a gas station employee will know the oil ministers in foreign countries...do they think writers have this special hook-up club? I've been at it for years and I know one useful person, and I'm not about to make him mad, lol!

HConn · Apr 10, 2005

People who say "I'd love to read your work!" are just being polite. You can either tell them "It's not ready to show," or you can send them a copy.

But if you do, just forget about it. Don't expect them to read it or to give opinions. They were just being polite.

wurdwise · Apr 10, 2005

HConn, that's exactly what i was thinking.

Ella · Apr 10, 2005

HConn said:
People who say "I'd love to read your work!" are just being polite. You can either tell them "It's not ready to show," or you can send them a copy.

But if you do, just forget about it. Don't expect them to read it or to give opinions. They were just being polite.

If I say to someone I'd like to read their stuff, it's because I honestly do. I find other people's writing a fascinating look at another side of them that you would not normally see. If it sucks, well, choose something good to say something positive about, and maybe one point to suggest improvements, and after that, drop it.
I'm sure some people do say things just to be polite. If these people are close to you, you should be able to tell if they're sincere or not. If they're not close to you, then probably won't be insulted by a 'no, it's not ready'.
(Though I did lose a friend of seven years because she didn't like what I had to say about her writing. Ah well. The friendship was obviously not that important.)

I also don't let anyone other than a critique group see my work until I feel it's mostly 'finished'. But some of the feedback while in the early stages, from these select few readers, has been great. I'm not sure I could write gobs and gobs without knowing that the writing isn't out to lunch.

Speaking of lunch...

zeprosnepsid · Apr 10, 2005

Yeah, I read a lot of other people's work. Screenplays, Novels, etc... And I give lengthy feedback. So when I offer to read something I do.

But here's the thing. It can take a while. I might not read it that week. But I will read it.

So be patient with your friends. They do have other things to do. And in a lot of cases they will read it when they can.

zornhau · Apr 11, 2005

I generally say I'd like to use them as test readers later on, so don't want to use them up early, which is more or less true.

I have a handful of friends I do show stuff to because they read in my target genre and are able to spot my bad bloopers before I show the material to the crit group.

Anatole Ghio · Apr 11, 2005

I don't mind showing my writing to other people. I do it fully expecting not to get valuable feedback in terms of writing criticism, but to ping whether it connects with the average reader.

As far as getting false encouragement for showing your stuff around, offer to show them your writing and then drop the subject. If they mention it again on their own, they are interested.

Once you give them your writing, again never bring it up. If they mention it on their own and want to talk about it, and they like it, you've probably found yourself a beta reader.

Congratulations.

zornhau · Apr 11, 2005

Anatole Ghio said:
Once you give them your writing, again never bring it up. If they mention it on their own and want to talk about it, and they like it, you've probably found yourself a beta reader.

Actually, I'd go further: don't talk about your writing at all except with other writers:

unless you have some success to validate it
somebody else mentions it first, or questions their way to it.
you need to explain the time you spend on it.

In the last two cases, you should mutter something about creative writing and then turn the the conversation back on them: "What about you? Do you have a hobby or obsession?" If they're really interested, they'll cross-question you later. The last thing you want is to come across as somebody who wraps themselves in an unearned Writer's Mantle.

veinglory · Apr 11, 2005

I only get proofreading and comments for other writers online. I once offered to read for a friend and immediatley found that I didn't like the book much -- which left me making excuses. If you do want comments from friends start by giving them a single chapter. That, they can cope with. Take any criticism with good grace and you may be able to develop a critiquing relationship from there.

oswann · Apr 11, 2005

I am also cagey about letting a WIP out. I don't think it helps and like most I think it possibly hinders advancing the story. Any comments by people along the way, unless you ask for them, cannot avoid being absorbed. This means that you sit down to attack the next bit and the nosy, albeit well intentioned, friends comments seep into your head and you start double guessing yourself. I'm not as detached to comments as Anatole.

Asking for opinions is an entirely different matter. You have put yourself into a position of considering advice. Of course if you let someone read the WIP this is effectively what you are doing if you like it or not. Remember that it is in progress.

Beta readers at the end of first drafts are again a different kettle of fish.

Os.

Anatole Ghio · Apr 11, 2005

I agree about not letting someone see a WIP, especially if they are not a writer. However, once I'm done with a piece, I have no problem letting someone see my work if I feel they might be into my writing style.

About not talking about writing at all... I agree partially. To many people, writing is just a hobby for someone else. To them, if you started talking about the in's and out's of the creative process, it will come off the same as someone walking up and tallking about Nasscar or Knitting... not relevant.

However, if I have some other reason to mention writing and it does not involve writing itself, writing is only the backdrop to some other story I want to convey, then I have no problem talking about writing, as what I will be saying will have nothing to do with the technical details about writing, and more about some character interest story I am about to convey.

Fact of the matter, though, writing is pretty dull as far as providing interesting stories... in fact, the more time I spend writing, the less time I spend out in the world, gathering human interest stories... damn, I need to get out more!!!

zornhau · Apr 11, 2005

Anatole Ghio said:
Fact of the matter, though, writing is pretty dull as far as providing interesting stories... in fact, the more time I spend writing, the less time I spend out in the world, gathering human interest stories... damn, I need to get out more!!!

Find somewhere unlikely but feasible to write - e.g. a biker bar. Don't make a fuss, just buy a coffee and tuck yourself away on the corner. After 6-8 months you'll know most of the regulars and hear all sorts of stories...

oswann · Apr 11, 2005

Also, as for most of the arts, people who don't practice have the impression that artists (creators, be it writers musician, painters et al.) are in a constant state of creativity. Like walking about in beautiful cloud of detachement between the glorious moments of letting the creatively flow forth through our chosen means. 'No I'm sorry I can't talk to you normally or do some normal person thing, you must understand, I'm an artist.'

No-one really believes that it requires countless hours and days and weeks to form the few precious seconds of pure creativity into something comprehensible and tangible. This is the real art to it.

Os

Liam Jackson · Apr 11, 2005

A question for those of you involved in the WIP conversation...
How many beta readers do you typically solicit, and/or do you perscribe to the notion of the "ideal reader"?

veinglory · Apr 11, 2005

I use 1-3 beta-reader per manuscript. It works best if they are writers and in the same genre as me.

zornhau · Apr 11, 2005

LiamJackson said:
A question for those of you involved in the WIP conversation...
How many beta readers do you typically solicit, and/or do you perscribe to the notion of the "ideal reader"?

I have
-1 regular beta reader who reads in my genre, and knows a lot about war and technology.
-1 crit partner whose scripts I pick at
-1 writers crit group (about 8 people)

When the manuscript's ready for off, I'll test it on a couple of non-genre mates to see if they understand any of it....

arkady · Apr 11, 2005

Anatole Ghio said:
I don't mind showing my writing to other people. I do it fully expecting not to get valuable feedback in terms of writing criticism, but to ping whether it connects with the average reader.

As far as getting false encouragement for showing your stuff around, offer to show them your writing and then drop the subject. If they mention it again on their own, they are interested.

Once you give them your writing, again never bring it up. If they mention it on their own and want to talk about it, and they like it, you've probably found yourself a beta reader.

All true. Too many people don't bother to use their friends as beta readers because they won't get objective feedback. And it's true -- they won't. But friends' reactions to the work can be useful nevertheless, in determining, as you say, "whether it connects with the average reader."

DeadlyAccurate · Apr 11, 2005

I have a couple of casual writer friends, but they aren't as willing to read my stuff as I am to read theirs. Kind of upsetting to go to the trouble and not get that help returned. No one but me has read more than a few chapters of my latest novel, because I don't feel comfortable asking people to read my book without being able to return the favor, so I don't ask non-writers at all.

azbikergirl · Apr 11, 2005

I tend to only agree to let people read it who are willing to give me honest feedback, even if it's something they think I don't want to hear. If they're only interested in reading for pleasure, they can wait until it's available on the shelf. The problem is, some people who read for pleasure aren't able to articulate what they feel is lacking in fiction. My brother is one. He'd like to read my story, but we both know I'll bug him to tell me what he thought the weak parts were, and he doesn't feel qualified to do that. So I end up feeling "gyped."

zornhau · Apr 11, 2005

azbikergirl said:
The problem is, some people who read for pleasure aren't able to articulate what they feel is lacking in fiction.

They can point out glaring plot holes, though. That can be a real life saver.

Can I read it?

I really do look like this.

Tired and worried.

Bored fanatic

Fear the Death Ray

Five by Five

Back from self-exile land.

Whore for genre

Swordsman

Ironic Paranormal

Swordsman

volitare nequeo

Grumpy

Ironic Paranormal

Swordsman

Grumpy

Heathen Horde Elder

volitare nequeo

Swordsman

Absolutely Fazed

I really do look like this.

Swordsman